How reliable are the Older 911's?

[Jay]

Hey guys and girls, was just wondering if people knew anything about the 911(997) carrera2? I have never really been settled with the 370z as I think I was expecting alot more from it which is probably my fault. I can either spend a bomb on getting it the way I would want it OR look at something different (as I am a fussy bugger) Anyway here is a wee link to the type of car I am looking at and 25 or 26k is my limit.

 

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-997/porsche-911-997-3-6-carrera-2-coupe-manual--2006/917915

 

Opinions welcome.

 

Jay

[rtbiscuit]

ekona and zedrush would be my first ports of call. they know the 911's quiet well.

[glrnet]

Not even going to look, just spend loads on the 370

[silverspeed]

Hey guys and girls, was just wondering if people knew anything about the 911(997) carrera2? I have never really been settled with the 370z as I think I was expecting alot more from it which is probably my fault. I can either spend a bomb on getting it the way I would want it OR look at something different (as I am a fussy bugger) Anyway here is a wee link to the type of car I am looking at and 25 or 26k is my limit.

 

http://classifieds.p...al--2006/917915

 

Opinions welcome.

 

Jay

Hi I sold my 997 for a z as I found the car boaring like driving a big BMW nice inside but they do come with there own problems RMOS is a big one

[Ekona]

Overall, very reliable cars as you would expect from Porsche. Two well-documented weak points:

 

1. Rear main seal, or RMS. Big gasket between 'box and engine, can leak and let oil out. Never usually a major issue, some live with it or some get it done with the clutch. Nowhere near as common on the 997 as the 996 cars though, but possible.

 

2. Intermediate main shaft failure, or IMS. In short, the two halves of the engine are connected together by this shaft which has a bearing on the end that can fail, causing your engine to pretty much self-destruct. Porsche upgraded the bearing many times over the life of the engine from 996 to 997.1, but the issue can still occur regardless with an OEM part. There are companies in the US who can sell you the parts to convert to a bearing that cannot fail, however as you can imagine it's not a cheap job to do (mostly labour to be fair). Lots of horror stories about IMS, but truth is it's only about 5% of cars that have ever been made that failed at a very worst case scenario.

 

Engine rebuild is about £3K to £7K depending on what needs doing if it does go pop, or you can get a warranty. Aftermarket warranties will only cover a certain amount of labour and parts, OPC warranty will cover everything but you have to stay with OEM parts for everything, i.e. probably no good for you. If it were me and I was buying at that end of the market, I wouldn't bother with a warranty but instead I'd put £1K away a year to cover myself if anything happened, same price as a warranty and you'd be better off long term I reckon. Again, we're only talking a 5% risk here.

 

 

There really is nothing else major to go wrong. Engines are otherwise bulletproof, gearboxes the same, all parts are equivalent to Zed prices if you go like for like. C2 may be the baby of the range but we're still talking about a 325bhp 911 here, it's not going to be slow and the chassis engineering is second only to Lotus IMHO. Takes a while to learn the balance of the car, but ultimately it's incredibly rewarding to drive fast when you get it right.

 

Spec is everything, and that car is right at the bottom as fair as I can tell. Sound pack might mean Bose, but it's @*!# so don't worry about that. The sat nav is equally crap, and changing the whole head unit over to something decent requires approx £500 of parts to convert the MOST before you get to buying anything. That said, that car looks immaculate and more toys = more things to go wrong. C2 cars did not have PASM (adjustable suspension) and on 19"s the ride is going to be very firm, you'd really either want to change the suspension or change the wheels to 18"s. You may find high mileage C2S cars in your price range (just!), and if the condition is good then I would consider one of those instead. PASM as standard, more power, lowered, and a higher mileage car is less likely to have IMS issues as the weak point is between about 30K to 80K.

 

Buy on condition, not on mileage. That's the most important thing with any 911, right back to the really early ones. Any other specifics you want to know, just shout.

[Ricey]

I know nothing about Porsches mate but if you can drive round in one of them at your age (12 is it?) then I say do it.

 

Itch the scratch........you've done the fast and furious itch - no point doing it again when you can experiance something else.

[Jay]

Thanks for all your input guys, especially you Dan, much appreciated. LOL at ricey... am coming up for 26, so not a young pup anymore I am currently just having a look around to see what is on the market and to see if I can actually afford one and I dont mean the car but the other things that come with it... like running costs, insurance, (if something went bang) all those fun things

 

Anyway thanks for your input guys, keep them coming. I am in no real rush.... so just seeing what the market has to offer for now

[ewan221]

Jay, have a look here

 

http://www.hartech.org/buyers.html

Edited November 30, 2012 by ewan221

[Dblock]

Do you even like the 370? Since you got it your always on about 911. Caymans and m3s

 

Ims upgrade bearing is 1k for the part but that's 997.1. Very reliable. Servicing if you do it yourself or take it Shotts isn't too bad. Personally I would work on it yourself as they are engineered quite nicely to fix. Just look for the basics and if your super paranoid borrow a dura metric and you can see how many times it's visited the limiter or fuel cut.

[Ebized]

Thanks for all your input guys, especially you Dan, much appreciated. LOL at ricey... am coming up for 26, so not a young pup anymore I am currently just having a look around to see what is on the market and to see if I can actually afford one and I dont mean the car but the other things that come with it... like running costs, insurance, (if something went bang) all those fun things

 

Anyway thanks for your input guys, keep them coming. I am in no real rush.... so just seeing what the market has to offer for now

 

You shouldn't take any notice of Dan - goes off and dabbles in a porker and now looking to come back to the ZED fold - reason: needs something cheaper to run.

 

What he won't admit to is the ZEDs give more value for the money

[Ekona]

More value? Interesting, not a way I'd actually thought about it. Depends on the value of the car you're buying I guess: Brand new for brand new, the 911 trumps it. Bottom of the market, 911 again, but somewhere in the middle (£40K vs £10K say) then you may well have a point.

 

The 911 costs me exactly the same to run as the 350Z, if not a bit cheaper as I've no need to modify it.

[LRF4N]

I can't keep up with you mate. One minute your getting more mods for the 70 then next you want a nice sensible car and a project/weekend car. (liked that idea). And now its a porker! Your worse than a woman shoe shopping

[The G Man]

There's no doubting A Porsche's credentials engineering wise and handling (although most on here probably couldn't drive either cars fast/aggressive/smooth/to the limit to tell the difference), Cayman excepted IMO, they just don't cut the mustard as far as the price or looks go.

 

The 370 will turn more heads and has better bang per buck. There is a premium on a badge to be paid, without any shadow of a doubt, but if it's "an itch to be scratched", it's gotta be done, oh and they won't talk to you on the Porker forums for at least 3 years or £110,000 spent, whichever comes first

[BulletMagnet]

Rebuilt old Porsches perhaps?

[ioneabee]

Rebuilt old Porsches perhaps?

2 things

1. that has got to be the most boring person i've ever listened to

2.why does the japanese language run on and on and on (seemingly) and the translation says it in about 3 words ?

[rtbiscuit]

if i bought a porsche i would be going for an early 80's late 70's porsche. would love to do a 911 restoration. maybe next project after the XKR

[Jay]

I can't keep up with you mate. One minute your getting more mods for the 70 then next you want a nice sensible car and a project/weekend car. (liked that idea). And now its a porker! Your worse than a woman shoe shopping

 

Irfan, I cant keep up with myself mate lol. I have decided not to go for a weekend car as then i would need to go and get a run around and it kills me driving a crappy car So what I am trying to decide is do I spend a wee bit of cash getting a front lip and side skirts to finish off the 370z OR get something like a cayman s, Older 911 or m3.

 

No real rush but keeping my options open mate

[rtbiscuit]

you're obviously not satisfied with the zed; otherwise you wouldn't be looking else where. might as well save the cash on zed mods and wait till you worked out what you actually want.

[RobPhoboS]

If you're serious about any Pork, PM me and I can put you in touch with friends that know them extremely well.

[Dblock]

if i bought a porsche i would be going for an early 80's late 70's porsche. would love to do a 911 restoration. maybe next project after the XKR

 

They look awesome but air cooled sucks. Plus have you seen the prices of them?

 

I personally don't agree with this bang for buck stuff. When buying new yes I agree but an older cayman is the same price as you 370 is now probably. Then you could argue do I want something I like or something that is good value for money.

 

I personally think people who bang on about the badge haven't driven a Porsche or is a hater. There is more porsches then 370 on the road and to most people if you want a good relible sports car you think Porsche.

 

If you go for a cayman make sure you get a 3.4s as they can be tuned to 350ish bhp.

[LRF4N]

Jay if your thinking 2 cars you can get a great project car for under 5k and keep some money aside for mods. That gives you over 15k to spend on a very nice daily driver, at that price you've got endless options. Don't be thinking purple corsa

[BulletMagnet]

Rebuilt old Porsches perhaps?

2 things

1. that has got to be the most boring person i've ever listened to

2.why does the japanese language run on and on and on (seemingly) and the translation says it in about 3 words ?

 

Eskimos have several words for snow, Chinese have several words for rice.

Perhaps these other languages are more descriptive and exact to portray feelings and objects.

Perhaps it's the English language that is less refined and also the reason why it's so easy to learn

[The G Man]

if i bought a porsche i would be going for an early 80's late 70's porsche. would love to do a 911 restoration. maybe next project after the XKR

 

They look awesome but air cooled sucks. Plus have you seen the prices of them?

 

I personally don't agree with this bang for buck stuff. When buying new yes I agree but an older cayman is the same price as you 370 is now probably. Then you could argue do I want something I like or something that is good value for money.

 

I personally think people who bang on about the badge haven't driven a Porsche or is a hater. There is more porsches then 370 on the road and to most people if you want a good relible sports car you think Porsche.

 

If you go for a cayman make sure you get a 3.4s as they can be tuned to 350ish bhp.

 

Hmm, mostly borrocks IMO. "I personally don't agree with this bang for buck stuff", probably never compared the two, from new, to 3 years old, as old as the 370, more bang for buck, try buying a three year old Cayman, never mind a 911 for 16/17k., if you can find one, I'll buy it if it has, which it won't, the same "spec"

 

"Then you could argue do I want something I like or something that is good value for money", I rest my case on that one, see above.

 

"I personally think people who bang on about the badge haven't driven a Porsche or is a hater" Badge has a premium, fact, no argument, look at Audi/BMW basic cars, or indeed lower spec Porker's. Hate? Never driven? I'd suggest that you have no idea IMHO, why would you hate a car?? I hate paedo's. and granny bashers/junkies, but why would you "hate" a lump of metal, doeasn't make sense that statement.

 

Thinking and knowing are two different concepts, if you look at the stats for most reliable cars over the last 10 years, Japanese cars have far out performed Porsche, even down to an Aygo!!

 

Badge snobbery and perception of what you may see as in "most on the road", surely, would make you want to have a Transit van than anything else. Not understanding a brand icon is exscusable, throwing money at a perception may not be.

 

Hay ho, why don't we all have a Porsche on here? Is it down to the premium you pay, reliability, performance, no, it's because it's an expensive badge, IMO.

[Dblock]

if i bought a porsche i would be going for an early 80's late 70's porsche. would love to do a 911 restoration. maybe next project after the XKR

 

They look awesome but air cooled sucks. Plus have you seen the prices of them?

 

I personally don't agree with this bang for buck stuff. When buying new yes I agree but an older cayman is the same price as you 370 is now probably. Then you could argue do I want something I like or something that is good value for money.

 

I personally think people who bang on about the badge haven't driven a Porsche or is a hater. There is more porsches then 370 on the road and to most people if you want a good relible sports car you think Porsche.

 

If you go for a cayman make sure you get a 3.4s as they can be tuned to 350ish bhp.

 

Hmm, mostly borrocks IMO. "I personally don't agree with this bang for buck stuff", probably never compared the two, from new, to 3 years old, as old as the 370, more bang for buck, try buying a three year old Cayman, never mind a 911 for 16/17k., if you can find one, I'll buy it if it has, which it won't, the same "spec"

 

"Then you could argue do I want something I like or something that is good value for money", I rest my case on that one, see above.

 

"I personally think people who bang on about the badge haven't driven a Porsche or is a hater" Badge has a premium, fact, no argument, look at Audi/BMW basic cars, or indeed lower spec Porker's. Hate? Never driven? I'd suggest that you have no idea IMHO, why would you hate a car?? I hate paedo's. and granny bashers/junkies, but why would you "hate" a lump of metal, doeasn't make sense that statement.

 

Thinking and knowing are two different concepts, if you look at the stats for most reliable cars over the last 10 years, Japanese cars have far out performed Porsche, even down to an Aygo!!

 

Badge snobbery and perception of what you may see as in "most on the road", surely, would make you want to have a Transit van than anything else. Not understanding a brand icon is exscusable, throwing money at a perception may not be.

 

Hay ho, why don't we all have a Porsche on here? Is it down to the premium you pay, reliability, performance, no, it's because it's an expensive badge, IMO.

 

Comparing an aygo to a porsche thats brilliant. Thats like for like and that proves your case.

 

I don't really get your point though. You wouldnt drive something if its good or not because of the badge? Thats just as much snobbery. Have you driven one the interior and the engineering is much better than the nissan no doubt and thats why it costs more. Yes its got the badge but how do you think the badge got its premium name?

 

So saying I dont know blah blah which Porsches have you driven or worked on then?

 

We dont all have porsches on here because 1 its a 350z/370z FORUM. Alot of us may not like them for what ever reasons or maybe cant afford them.

 

I'd personally consider a 5-6 year old cayman s over a 370z because for me I'd want to drive the best thing I could afford.

[Ekona]

Hmm, mostly borrocks IMO. "I personally don't agree with this bang for buck stuff", probably never compared the two, from new, to 3 years old, as old as the 370, more bang for buck, try buying a three year old Cayman, never mind a 911 for 16/17k., if you can find one, I'll buy it if it has, which it won't, the same "spec"

Best get your wallet out then

Aircon, satnav, heated door mirrors, leather interior, tracker, the excellent sport seats, and a better chassis. Dynamically superior as the engine is in the right place, and you get more room for shopping too. Quicker 0-60 and higher top speed as well, if that floats your boat.

 

Only thing it falls down on is the 3 year old rule, admittedly, but it's only done 46K and Porsches wear much better than Nissans anyway so it really won't feel like a 6 year old car. There's a 370Z on there for £16700 that's done 33K miles in three years, which would be the closest competitor but that's an auto.

 

 

If anyone buys a car because of the badge, they're an idiot. If anyone hates a particular brand because of the badge, they're an idiot. If anyone thinks a car that costs £20K more when new isn't better than the cheaper one, they're an idiot. Sometimes though the best car isn't actually the best car for the individual, which is why we all ended up in Zeds here. There's better cars out there, certainly for the money, but we all bought the Zed in whatever form because it was the best car for us at the time. How hard is that to understand, and to let people enjoy the choice they made without being labelled as an idiot who seeks some proprietary idea of 'bang for buck' or 'premium badge'?