rabbitstew Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 After a bit of advice. We rent out a house to some tenants. Its around 1950`s build, so obviously not brand spanking new. Our tenants are inexperienced in life. This is their first place they have lived outside their parents house and also they have never done any decorating before. So, when they wanted to move in they asked whether I could redecorate the spare room for them. Out of the kindness of my heart I said yes and redecorated it for them. They then said the cooker looked a bit old (perfectly working mind you), and because new cookers werent expensive, I had a new cooker fitted for them as i figured it would make the kitchen look better for my next tenants in the future. So, ive been quite good so far. I guess I was in a good mood at the time. Anyway, last week they ask me if they can redecorate the bedroom. I say yes, no problem, as long as you make a good job of it - figuring if they are happy to forkout some cash decorating a room it means they are likely to want to stay there for more than 6 months. Now, this morning I get a call from them saying that the plaster is all falling off the walls as they get the wall paper off and want me to pay for someone to replaster the whole room. I send my brother over to have a look, as Im stuck at work. Basically what they seem to have done is to use a wallpaper steamer and because they are inexperienced at decorating, have happily ended up blowing most of the plaster off the walls. Sure, its an old house so you`d expect the walls not to be brand new, and so normally you`d have to be extra careful. I certainly didnt have too much problem when I did the spare room a few months back. When I used to rent a house, i remember i was responsible for all the inside, so if i made any mess or anything I had to repair it. Including filling holes where id pulled plaster off and redecorating etc. In fact I remember i used to keep quiet about any damage id done and id repair it myself quickly for fear of loosing my house deposit! Looking at the tenancy agreement I have with them, it says the tenant is responsible for keeping the premises in good tenantable condition, they agree to keep interior of the house incl fixtures / fittings / furniture and effects all in good repair and condition and safeguard them against any damage. Looking online, a lot of councils and housing associations actually specifically state in their agreements that tenants should not use steam wall paper strippers for exactly this reason - so it seems to be quite a common "mistake" tenants make. In my mind, its the tenants fault. The walls looked fine before hand, they have damaged them in stripping off the wallpaper using their steamer and so they should repair them, making sure that after they have finished they look as good as they did before they started. However, the tenants parents are quite aggressive people, and it sounds like they have said "oh, the landlord will sort that out", and therefore the tenants expect us to sort it all out. Im going to see them this weekend and I thoroughly expect they will get their parents to come over at the same time for support, but where do I stand? Is it their fault for being heavy handed in getting wall paper off? Or, is it down to me to make sure the interior plaster is all repaired. As after all i had no idea what condition the walls were behind the paper only that they looked nice and smooth and when ever id nailed up pictures and stuff, they held up fine. Anyone else been in a similar boat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 50/50 I'd say. Yes, they've clearly made a cack-handed effort at the job but in return you should've specified that it was not to be done that way (not your fault, I wouldn't have done it any differently). At this point, I'd point out their error but offer to pay for 50% of the cost to get it repaired properly with them. Bit of give and take on both sides then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Yep I would say a bit of both too, yes they almost certainly shouldn't have used a steamer but then did you tell them not to use one.... I know you didn't tell them not to use an elephant with sandpaper stuck to its ar$e either but you get my point... As it is your property and you will be benefiting in the long run, i.e. if they had moved out and you decided to decorate the plaster might have fallen off even without a steamer, then I would say try a compromise and split the costs and lesson learnt.... hopefully if they are decent people they will see the logic:thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Without reading Ekona's post I'd have said 50/50 also. Old house plaster won't be in A1 condition. Inexperienced decorating skills = disaster. You can blame them, and they will blame you. Benefits you with new plaster and they have the room they desire. 50/50 all the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I've got mixed opinions really and I've just rented my house out too. I try and stress my tenants to be careful if they want to do anything. In this situation as Ekona says I think a bit of give and take, however, it does seem like they've gone at it hard. I would make sure you document it well with them and at state you might want to deduct from their deposit so at least you can discuss now. Edited October 23, 2012 by flexib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 . I know you didn't tell them not to use an elephant with sandpaper stuck to its ar$e either but you get my point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 I agree with what your saying. In retrospective I should have just told them to leave it as it is. The walls had lining paper on for a reason, and now we know what that reason is - the walls are bad! If it was my main house id probably just reskim it myself a bit and then put the new lining paper up - but when I factor in the time and hassle it soon adds up. But then again, last time I got a quote from a plasterer to skim a couple of walls they wanted nearly £500. I see now why the councils & housing association contracts I was reading on line specifically state no steamers to be used. I certainly will remember to tell them not to use that again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Also I signed up with the national landlords association, they have free helpline (most of whom are landlords themselves). It's been really helpful to talk things through with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Also I signed up with the national landlords association, they have free helpline (most of whom are landlords themselves). It's been really helpful to talk things through with them. Good idea there. Will have to give that a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 We had our lounge skimmed before moving in. 4 walls and the ceiling £800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik54 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 The walls had lining paper on? Well any eejit would know not to touch it in an old house They need to sort it - and at best go 50/50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonk Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Likewise bit of both. We do a lot of work for landlords and on the whole i would be reluctant to let tenants do anything without written consent, and limit it to EASILY reversable stuff not exceding a coat of emulsion. Even that can be a nightmare with cases of garish colours and even black slapped everywhere resulting in costly and time consuming remedial work. I certainly wouldn't let them start stripping wallpaper. Only you know how far you were prepared for them to go or if your consent could have been misinterpreted. i would say that you will cover the cost of materials ie plaster etc but they would be responsible for the labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Good idea there. Will have to give that a look. For me it's invaluable as when I consult with the Mrs she tells me to tell them to do one but it's nice to get the opinion of someone who has been there and done that and they are happy for you to talk it through with them. Costs about £150 per year but you get discount on the deposit scheme and other discounts too so not too bad overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jell36 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Just go 50/50 with them as most have said. To be honest their parents should not be involved and I would just ignore them as they have nothing to do with you. In the future don't let tennants make any irreversible changes themselves as they will usually try to do it on the cheap which means poor work. I lived in rented properties for 6 years (during and after uni) moving though 6 different homes and I was never allowed to redecorate like this due to me not wanting to pay a professional and the landlord not trusting a quality job would be done. Also from the sound of what you are saying it is likely the parents will moan about having to pay 50% but if they don't lie it then tell them to move out, there are lots of poeple struggling to find rented accomodation at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewan27 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I recently decorated my entire 1960s built house for the first time since I moved in a few years ago. I also got new electric and new boiler and radiators. The paper was a nightmare to remove and I used a steamer; some rooms had lining paper. The walls were in a bad state. I had hired a plasterer to fill in the gaps where the old radiators were and where the sockets had to installed. He patched in the gaps in the walls, left from removing the wallpaper, and then I used blown vinyl heavyweight wallpaper which is very easy to hang and covered up the imperfections on the walls. So basically what I'm saying is you might not need the whole room skimmed, a touch up job and heavy blown vinyl wallpaper might be a good compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbeast35 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 i don't agree that you should just offer to go 50/50 i would use that as a last resort if it looks like its going to be a lot of hassle , you gave them permission to redecorate not to rip the walls to shreds, surely if there are any mishaps it should be for them to put right as before they started the plaster wasn't coming off the walls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marzman Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 1. You shouldnt have let them decorate, as you're not in control of the standard thats its done to 2. They've ****ed up. Tell them you'll do it all... plaster and redecorate. They'll lose their security deposit, but thats cos they're costing you a load of money. At the end of the day you might be a little out of pocket but you get piece of mind that its being done right. 3. Dont renew their lease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 50/50 I'd say. Yes, they've clearly made a cack-handed effort at the job but in return you should've specified that it was not to be done that way (not your fault, I wouldn't have done it any differently). At this point, I'd point out their error but offer to pay for 50% of the cost to get it repaired properly with them. Bit of give and take on both sides then. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Also this would end up going through the tenancy deposit scheme so you could get an independent arbitration. If they rule if favour of the tenant then it's down to you to fix though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah 350z Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 A bit awkward both parties are going to point the finger at someone else here. My only worry would be they do a crap job repairing it if they are tight for money etc and most days people don't like to put their cash into a rented property especially if they can't take it with them. I guess as well you don't want to **** them off as you do want them to take care of your house for the duration they are renting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Thanks everyone for the comments. Tough one really isnt it. As others have said, i shouldnt have agreed to let them decorate, but they have just agreed to sign a 12 month lease, rather than the normal 6 month lease, so I felt that I should let them in order to keep them happy - bit like the new cooker & redecorating the spare room. Whilst they have messed up due to their inexperience in decorating by heavy handed use of a steamer, the general consensus is that I should have foreseen that they may have done this and should have told them explicitly not to use a steamer. Im going to have a look at the "damage" this weekend. The approach im going to take is to advice them that they shouldnt have used the steamer and its really therefore their fault. If they just google "wallpaper steamer plaster" there is no end of stuff saying how you shouldnt use steamers and be careful as they can blow plaster off walls. Theres also loads of stuff from letting agreements, councils & housing associations instructing tenants not to use steamers under any circumstances. I`ll then advice them on how I would go about repairing the damage if I was them - looking at the photos they have sent me, personally I think a bit of plaster / finishing skim should be enough to repair the damage they have done, and by the time the new lining paper is put up, it should hide everything nicely. Afterall - it looked fine before!!!! If they arnt happy with this, then I may just repair it myself - ive seen worse walls before and its nothing I couldnt make a half decent job of with some plaster. It just means wasting a day of my time. Thanks for everyones advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonk Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 "they have just agreed to sign a 12 month lease, rather than the normal 6 month lease", Not necessarily a good thing or indeed good idea. With new tenants it's better to do an initial 6 month lease to see how they are and then renew for 12 if you have had no problems with them. The landlords we work for tend to do it this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theheff Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 For the sake of a possible row and to keep them happy and in turn make their tenancy less grief for you would you not be better to just do it yourself if you can and ban any further decorating. They have at least informed you about it so obviously aren't bad people. I'd have just done it myself were it me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff-r Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 For the sake of a possible row and to keep them happy and in turn make their tenancy less grief for you would you not be better to just do it yourself if you can and ban any further decorating. They have at least informed you about it so obviously aren't bad people. I'd have just done it myself were it me. I think this is the best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 For the sake of a possible row and to keep them happy and in turn make their tenancy less grief for you would you not be better to just do it yourself if you can and ban any further decorating. They have at least informed you about it so obviously aren't bad people. I'd have just done it myself were it me. I think this is the best option. But where do I draw the line? So far they have taken the wallpaper off 1.5 walls in the room and are halfway through pealing the paper off wall number 3. I can replaster the walls with the blown plaster myself - this will take a good few hours and probably coming back a few days later to finish off. Then once its all dry (couple of days) id have to go back and then hang the new lining paper up. But then do I then strip the other 2.5 walls myself, replaster & put new paper up also, or leave them to do it, hoping that even without using a steamer they dont end up pulling more plaster off? What about painting do I then go back and paint the room for them? You can see it soon adds up and will involve a lot of journeys to the house & back (house is about 80miles from where i live). If the house was empty and I had a week off work, id happily do it myself like I did in the spare room. I`ll see how it goes Saturday and if needbe will take my tools incase i need to make a start on the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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