ug45cwb Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Just been speaking to a colleague who said his insurance company asked him at his renewal if he had been on any speed awareness courses. He told them he had and this resulted in a big increase in his premium. I didn't think they could do this? Has this happened to anyone on here? My renewal is due soon and I thought taking the course kept me from an increase in premium. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I have never been asked that when renewing, and just renewed 3 weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 You committed the crime so why shouldn't your premium be increased? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Speeding is speeding. Fine or course. It'll affect your insurance either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudgedon Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Speed awareness courses make no difference to insurance. You are not legally obliged to tell them either I know this as the guy who conducted my speed awareness course last year said these words himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Speed awareness courses make no difference to insurance. You are not legally obliged to tell them either I know this as the guy who conducted my speed awareness course last year said these words himself Then he's wrong. If your insurer asks you if you have any penalty points or have been convicted in the last year, the answer is no. If they ask you if you've had any speed awareness courses, then the answer is yes and it's up to the insurer whether they load your premium or not. 99% don't, but if your one does then you are legally obliged to tell them the truth. Personally I'd be taking my business elsewhere at that point anyway. They can ask you whatever they like, and if you choose to answer then you must be truthful. If you choose not to answer then they may choose not to offer you insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techinstaller Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 MMM i just had to do this course 5 weeks ago and actually raised the question with the guy running our group ,he was not very pleased to have the point raised as to weather this was becoming a standard question from insurers at renewal ,i only asked as i had been advised from people in our trade that had similar experience with this practice from insurers. I stated that the one major factor in decideing to attend the course was the fact that no points and no insurance premium increase was likely and that if this ceases to be the actual case many people would choose not to do the course leaving him and his friends out of a job and the whole practice pointless,his answer was that insurance companies are after all commercial business's over which they have no control . He was very clear however when pushed on the point regarding declaration that a speed awareness course had been attended. If asked the question "have you attended a speed awarness course " you absolutly must answer the question truthfully regardless of the fact that they cannot supposedly find out if you have been on such a course. it would if you lied be the same effectively as answering any other insurance proposal question untruthfully,so what do you think now ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 i think i'll stick with not speeding, sounds much easier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Ah, you must be new around here. We don't do common sense, we do moaning after we've been caught for speeding on a dull straight road. You'll soon pick it up, don't worry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) They can ask you whatever they like, and if you choose to answer then you must be truthful. If you choose not to answer then they may choose not to offer you insurance. Actually that's not exactly true, if they ask something you're not obliged to answer then they have to completely ignore any response you make regardless of whether it's true or not. A quote from issue 25 of the Financial ombudsman states: If firms insist on asking questions about spent convictions, then they must effectively ignore the answers they receive. Otherwise, we are likely to consider they have breached their statutory duty. Admittedly this is about spent convictions which is a different kettle of fish compared to non-spent/current speeding offences. Source: http://www.financial...-news/25/25.pdf (Page 14, although all of section 3 and 4 is worth reading). Edited October 19, 2012 by HaydnH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sounds interesting, I'll have a good read of that article later> Thanks for the heads up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Okay, so I've had a chance to read that and it's an interesting one. On the one hand they (the Ombudsman) are saying that insurance companies cannot penalise you for spent convictions, which is why they ask you for up to five years' worth of details (for totting purposes it's 3 years, after 4 you can have them removed from you licence, but they're not officially spent until 5 years). A speed awareness course (SAC for the sake of brevity) is not a conviction, and as such I would say that, based on that Issue 25, you do not have to tell insurers about SAC as they are not allowed to penalise you for it. However... They are allowed to penalise drivers who have had a claim, regardless of fault. They are allowed to penalise drivers who have had a speeding conviction. As such, why should they not be allowed to penalise people who have clearly been caught speeding? Points or SAC, the crime is identical and should be treated as such. On this subject I'm actually going to side with the insurer I think, and I would be interested to hear the opinion of the Ombudsman on this subject now, given how popular SAC are in lieu of points and that the article Haydn linked to is 9 years old. I might drop them a line and ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 In fact, I have emailed them on this, lets see what they come back with. I don't expect a rapid response, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustdriveslower Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hello All, My User Name is Mustdriveslower for a reason! This is a topic dear to my heart and you will be pleased to know that at LWIB we do not need to know if you have been on a speed awareness course unless you want to moan about it with us! There is NO penalisation or loading for one speeding that did not result in more than a fixed penalty. Also for us it is the circumstances that is mor eimportant. 100+ on a clear motorway is not as bad as 38 in a 30 urban area in my humble opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 They are allowed to penalise drivers who have had a claim, regardless of fault. They are allowed to penalise drivers who have had a speeding conviction. As such, why should they not be allowed to penalise people who have clearly been caught speeding? Points or SAC, the crime is identical and should be treated as such. Out of curiosity, does a SAC appear on your license as a conviction just without points? Realistically how would they legally find out if you'd been on an SAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 No idea, I'm a good boy who doesn't speed! I don't think it appears anywhere on a license, but I bet it's on a database somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Out of curiosity, does a SAC appear on your license as a conviction just without points? Realistically how would they legally find out if you'd been on an SAC? It doesnt appear on your license at all - my missus went on one a couple of years back. The only way they would know is if you told them. Unless they have some ability to check police databases which is unlikely. So it goes back to the old being truthful thing. Back in the day i remember when insurance companies never asked for a copy of your driving license and never checked with dvla, so if you were so inclined you didnt have to tell them about any points. I know one guy who had 11 points on his license and as far as the insurance company were concerned he was clean. Of course, should he had ever made a claim or been in an accident then his insurance would be invalid and he`d be up the creek. Now aways insurance companies swap information and check records etc. also a lot of them now seem to ask for a copy of your driving license etc. I even had a "spot check" with my insurance last year where they phone me up and conferenced me in with someone at the DVLA to check my license was valid and clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rothers2901 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Then he's wrong. If your insurer asks you if you have any penalty points or have been convicted in the last year, the answer is no. If they ask you if you've had any speed awareness courses, then the answer is yes and it's up to the insurer whether they load your premium or not. 99% don't, but if your one does then you are legally obliged to tell them the truth. Personally I'd be taking my business elsewhere at that point anyway. They can ask you whatever they like, and if you choose to answer then you must be truthful. If you choose not to answer then they may choose not to offer you insurance. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomS Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Deleted Edited November 18, 2012 by TomS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 They are allowed to penalise drivers who have had a claim, regardless of fault. They are allowed to penalise drivers who have had a speeding conviction. As such, why should they not be allowed to penalise people who have clearly been caught speeding? Points or SAC, the crime is identical and should be treated as such. Out of curiosity, does a SAC appear on your license as a conviction just without points? Realistically how would they legally find out if you'd been on an SAC? Attending a SAC is an alternative to the conviction rather than an alternative punishment once convicted. If you are eligable and opt for a SAC, you are never convicted of that (alleged) offence. This means that technically the crime isn't the same as technically the police take no action for the (alleged) offence as you are assumed innocent until proven guilty. Therefore no conviction = innocent as far as any third party (insurer infor example) is concerned from a legal persepective. However, insurance doesn't work in the same way as the law and is based on statistical risk assesment. A history of speeding (perceived/proven/whatever) will no doubt increase the perceived risk, hence higher premiums. Whether an insurer has the right to ask you, I'm not sure. You certainly have the right not to answer (but lying will ultimately invalidate your policy regardless of the question), they then have the right not to offer you a quote. Consider this though, if they have the right to ask you if you have attended a SAC, which is not a conviction, where does that end? Does that mean they can ask you if you've ever exceeded the speed limit but not being caught? It's effectively the same question afterall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhutch Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I done a speed awareness corse when caught speeding in my MG before i stepped into the light of Zed's. What a waste of a day, some old guy driving a astra preaching at me, didn't know first thing about a car or what they can do. I's rather take the points, actually maybe not but the corse is like capital punishment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I done a speed awareness corse when caught speeding in my MG before i stepped into the light of Zed's. What a waste of a day, some old guy driving a astra preaching at me, didn't know first thing about a car or what they can do. I's rather take the points, actually maybe not but the corse is like capital punishment Does it matter how much knowledge the person delivering the trainging course has? If he'd been prepped properly and was delivering material about the best lines to take around a race track written by Michael Schumacher in a friendly and competent manner would you complain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20328860 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 as far as i'm aware you only need to inform them of actual points. regardless of what they ask you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 as far as i'm aware you only need to inform them of actual points. regardless of what they ask you. I agree, the insurance companies will not have access to the records of who has been on an awareness course and who hasn't. AFAIK you can tell them what you want, they have no way of knowing or checking even if you have an accident. From the BBC report.... With no incentive to avoid increased insurance premiums, police fear drivers may opt to pay a fine instead and reject the courses. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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