djtimo Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Guys just a quick one for any one who has dealt with this type of thing. I TRIED to park in manchester in a small private car park I pulled in spent a few mins seeing if I had enough change (£12) for a few hours, when I did not have enough cash I tried to pay via the TXT service but I had bad signal and dropped calls twice, before I gave up and left the car park. I did not even turn the engine off and my GF was sat in the car while I tried to pay. Total time in the carpark was 11 mins. Parking eye charge £100. I have sent an email back stating this and that I will not be paying. What do you guys think? Thanks . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think you need to cough up else they can and will take you to court now. A couple of weeks ago you could have binned it (when did this happen incidentally?), but not now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I guess that the camera is only 'conveniently' on the entrance / exit and not covering the actual car park? I'd plead your case, if you can prove that you never left the car park and that you placed two calls to the service then surely they'd have to listen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1 HNK Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Thats extortionate! That cannot be justified and I certainly wouldn't cough up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwantone Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Post your story on pepipoo.com There are some real experts on there who will give good advice. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyBoy Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think you need to cough up else they can and will take you to court now. A couple of weeks ago you could have binned it (when did this happen incidentally?), but not now. Whilst they can now take you to court to recover costs, I also believe that they now have to prove that their charges are justified. They can't just say 'that'll be £100 please' in court because there's no way any magistrate will agree that this incident cost the operators anything close to that amount of money. At the implied rate of £6 per hour the OP would owe them £1.10. I suggest the OP offers them this in writing because I suspect they know that they'll never get £100 out of him if it goes to court (which I think should be avoided if possible). The phone call logs should prove that the OP had full intention of paying for the parking, but for various reasons was unable to and so left the car park never having parked or attempted to avoid paying. If you can prove that beyond reasonable doubt then you owe them £1.10 for the time you spent on their property (even that's dubious as you never used a parking space for its intended purpose) and nothing more. DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan221 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 who issued ticket ? if they are member of BPA there is an appeal process and code of conduct http://www.britishparking.co.uk/AOS-Members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan221 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 see here http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclai ... ng-tickets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 What Dannyboy said they have to justify the cost of £100, so do not pay £100. You have a pretty legitimate case that although you parked without paying it was not at a cost of £100 to the private land owner and any court will realise you made reasonable attempts to pay the charge and when you couldnt you legitimately left. Have a browse here, http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets it shows you the rules for charges on private car parks, they are not fines, they are meant to be charges to reclaim the money you owe, which is not £100 and not anywhere near that amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Post your story on pepipoo.com There are some real experts on there who will give good advice. Steve Their advice worked for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRVanillaBear Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think you need to cough up else they can and will take you to court now. A couple of weeks ago you could have binned it (when did this happen incidentally?), but not now. Whilst they can now take you to court to recover costs, I also believe that they now have to prove that their charges are justified. They can't just say 'that'll be £100 please' in court because there's no way any magistrate will agree that this incident cost the operators anything close to that amount of money. At the implied rate of £6 per hour the OP would owe them £1.10. I suggest the OP offers them this in writing because I suspect they know that they'll never get £100 out of him if it goes to court (which I think should be avoided if possible). The phone call logs should prove that the OP had full intention of paying for the parking, but for various reasons was unable to and so left the car park never having parked or attempted to avoid paying. If you can prove that beyond reasonable doubt then you owe them £1.10 for the time you spent on their property (even that's dubious as you never used a parking space for its intended purpose) and nothing more. DB +1 ... Don't pay! That's what they want and how they make there money! I had a similar incident happen to me (I say similar but it probably isn't) I parked in a car park that I thought was public and free as, upon entry, there were no signs to pay. I then went out with the GF and spent the day in Lemington Spa. We then caught a late film and returned to the car about 1am. At this point we found that the exit that we came out of was closed and locked. I was like Huh? So we walked round and found the entrance where I drove in ... This was also locked. At which point I was like ... F********K!!! Then I found an unlocked gate and inside here was a room with machines to pay for a 'leaving credit' to leave the carpark (through an exit at the back of the car park, I had not driven past it so didn't even know it was there!). Above this was a sign saying that the car park closed at 11pm and that to be released after this time would cost £100 plus a £50 call out charge to get the gates unlocked. So begrudgingly I called the number and said I needed letting out. As I was sat waiting in my car another car pulled round infront of us, drove up to the exit, the exit opened automatically and they drove out, I was like ... WTF? So I tried driving up to it ... Nothing. I then parked near the exit, idling, with the hope of someone else leaving and thinking I would just tailgate them. LUCKILY .... Someone did drive out and I managed to sneak out behind them (after about 20 mins of waiting). I then called the company and said I didn't need anyone to let me out and they said okay and then shouted out 'Tim, don't bother!! He don't need letting out' ... So the B**tards hadn't even left!! Haha! Anyway, they never did chase me up for any money or anything like that ... I was lucky I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentsmith350 Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Just ignore them , Common knowledge round here now to make no contact with them even with the new legislation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Just ignore them , Common knowledge round here now to make no contact with them even with the new legislation That's possibly the worst bit of advice I've seen for quite a while. Even if you look at my original post as being a bit defeatist (which, I admit, on reflection it was and the consensus of arguing your point in court over the £100 is probably a good idea), just ignoring it isn't an option any more. You either need to pay or contest, ignoring it is going to look terrible on you when they take you to court, which they're far more likely to do now they have a much better chance of getting you to cough up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Mixture of Dans advice from me..........do not ignore them - engage - dispute - argue and then attend court if it gets that far. Never, ever admit liability and never ever get angry. I'll tart any emails or letter you want to send up for you if you want me too - I'm not any sort of legal counsel by the way......just a professional pain in the arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentsmith350 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Just ignore them , Common knowledge round here now to make no contact with them even with the new legislation That's possibly the worst bit of advice I've seen for quite a while. Even if you look at my original post as being a bit defeatist (which, I admit, on reflection it was and the consensus of arguing your point in court over the £100 is probably a good idea), just ignoring it isn't an option any more. You either need to pay or contest, ignoring it is going to look terrible on you when they take you to court, which they're far more likely to do now they have a much better chance of getting you to cough up. Mixture of Dans advice from me..........do not ignore them - engage - dispute - argue and then attend court if it gets that far. Never, ever admit liability and never ever get angry. I'll tart any emails or letter you want to send up for you if you want me too - I'm not any sort of legal counsel by the way......just a professional pain in the arse. Sorry guys but ignore IS the best advice ! Even watchdog advise to just bin the letters . Hundreds of people round here do it after a guy started spreading the word on facebook and not one has had to pay anything , you get 3 letters threatening all sorts but thats all they are and nothing ever comes back from it . Taken from the page - " You haven't done anything illegal or broken the law all u have done is breach some silly rules that a private company have made up 1) they have no right to charge u. Only the landowner can charge u 2) the landowner can only charge u loss of earnings. Its a free carpark so the loss of earnings is £ 0.00 (yep ZERO lol) 3) they amount they want wud b deemed as a penalty (as there is no way £48 is actual losses). Only the council or the police can charge a penalty not these Muppets. Please don't pay it. Its like parking outside my house and then me asking for £100. You would tell me to get stuffed " They have no more right to demand money than you or I , Ekona i now demand £80 from you for posting in a public forum if this is not met i shall send you 2 more letters and then do nothing....... Edited November 7, 2012 by agentsmith350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyBoy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Sorry but no matter how many people have got away with it round where you live, there's no way I'd be ignoring someone who had the ability to recover costs from me in court. What do you lose by writing back to them and telling them to jog on? Other than it looking really bad in court that you've totally ignored all communication. Or are you just going to ignore the court summons as well? DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentsmith350 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Sorry but no matter how many people have got away with it round where you live, there's no way I'd be ignoring someone who had the ability to recover costs from me in court. What do you lose by writing back to them and telling them to jog on? Other than it looking really bad in court that you've totally ignored all communication. Or are you just going to ignore the court summons as well? DB And how exactly do they have the ability to recover costs from you in court ...? They have no more rights that me sending you a letter in red demanding money The only case known of P.E taking anyone to court and winning was when there was no defence and heavily suspected as a setup Edited November 7, 2012 by agentsmith350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyBoy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Sorry but no matter how many people have got away with it round where you live, there's no way I'd be ignoring someone who had the ability to recover costs from me in court. What do you lose by writing back to them and telling them to jog on? Other than it looking really bad in court that you've totally ignored all communication. Or are you just going to ignore the court summons as well? DB And how exactly do they have the ability to recover costs from you in court ...? They have no more rights that me sending you a letter in red demanding money The only case known of P.E taking anyone to court and winning was when there was no defence and heavily suspected as a setup They have the ability to persue you in court because the same legislative changes that banned wheel clamping and introduced an appeals process for BPA registered companies also states that private landowners can persue the registered keeper of a vehicle for unpaid parking charges. Once the appeals process (which the car park owners can initiate as well) has been exhausted, then like any other business they can have you up in a county court if they think you owe them money. They have to justify the amount you owe them, but that could still be quite a lot if you've broken clearly signposted rules. Assuming the car park adheres to all the rules about properly displaying the Ts&Cs, refusing to pay a justified charge is completely indefensible and you CANNOT just get away with it by ignoring it. If the charge was unjustified then you'll win (or more likely the appeals process will sort it out) and you have nothing to worry about. The bottom line is: If you've broken clearly stated rules with clearly stated charges applied, then you owe them the charge. You agree to that contract when you park there, you can't simply ignore it because you don't like it, and if they want to they can persue the registered keeper for those cost all the way to a county court. If you've not done what they say you've done (as in the OP's case) then you don't owe them the charge and that's what the appeals process (or at last resort a courtroom) is for. DB Ps. Watchdog may say ignore them, but the AA strongly recommend you don't ignore the charges, as will anyone with a jot of common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Sorry guys but ignore IS the best advice ! Even watchdog advise to just bin the letters . Hundreds of people round here do it after a guy started spreading the word on facebook and not one has had to pay anything , you get 3 letters threatening all sorts but thats all they are and nothing ever comes back from it . Taken from the page - " You haven't done anything illegal or broken the law all u have done is breach some silly rules that a private company have made up 1) they have no right to charge u. Only the landowner can charge u 2) the landowner can only charge u loss of earnings. Its a free carpark so the loss of earnings is £ 0.00 (yep ZERO lol) 3) they amount they want wud b deemed as a penalty (as there is no way £48 is actual losses). Only the council or the police can charge a penalty not these Muppets. Please don't pay it. Its like parking outside my house and then me asking for £100. You would tell me to get stuffed " They have no more right to demand money than you or I , Ekona i now demand £80 from you for posting in a public forum if this is not met i shall send you 2 more letters and then do nothing....... lolwut don't be a 'tard It wasn't a free car park though, was it? There was a charge, so by parking and not paying you've taken up a space that could be used by someone else who was going to pay, so there is a monetary loss there. It's at least £12, plus a reasonable fee for having to chase it (£30 would be reasonable in this regard) so that's what you'd be looking to recover in court. PE may have some fancy lawyers who can justify the full £100 when they break it down, or they may just give up. With something like this, you have to be prepared to take it to the final conclusion regardless of which side you're on. Either you hope PE give up, or you have to be prepared for it to go to court and for you to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agentsmith350 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 They have the ability to persue you in court because the same legislative changes that banned wheel clamping and introduced an appeals process for BPA registered companies also states that private landowners can persue the registered keeper of a vehicle for unpaid parking charges. Once the appeals process (which the car park owners can initiate as well) has been exhausted, then like any other business they can have you up in a county court if they think you owe them money. They have to justify the amount you owe them, but that could still be quite a lot if you've broken clearly signposted rules. Assuming the car park adheres to all the rules about properly displaying the Ts&Cs, refusing to pay a justified charge is completely indefensible and you CANNOT just get away with it by ignoring it. If the charge was unjustified then you'll win (or more likely the appeals process will sort it out) and you have nothing to worry about. The bottom line is: If you've broken clearly stated rules with clearly stated charges applied, then you owe them the charge. You agree to that contract when you park there, you can't simply ignore it because you don't like it, and if they want to they can persue the registered keeper for those cost all the way to a county court. If you've not done what they say you've done (as in the OP's case) then you don't owe them the charge and that's what the appeals process (or at last resort a courtroom) is for. DB Ps. Watchdog may say ignore them, but the AA strongly recommend you don't ignore the charges, as will anyone with a jot of common sense. I see what your saying but PE are not the landowners so have no right to invoice you these charges. Reading the Op's post in his situation i would agree the appeal is the best proccess , But i and many other HAVE ignored the letters and nothing has ever happened other than i have a nice black and white photo of my car lolwut don't be a 'tard It wasn't a free car park though, was it? There was a charge, so by parking and not paying you've taken up a space that could be used by someone else who was going to pay, so there is a monetary loss there. It's at least £12, plus a reasonable fee for having to chase it (£30 would be reasonable in this regard) so that's what you'd be looking to recover in court. PE may have some fancy lawyers who can justify the full £100 when they break it down, or they may just give up. With something like this, you have to be prepared to take it to the final conclusion regardless of which side you're on. Either you hope PE give up, or you have to be prepared for it to go to court and for you to lose. Find me some cases where its gone to court then ... Very rare The bit i quoted above was in general not specific to the OP , Yeah they can only re-coupe losses and its what £3 for a couple hours...... Who's to define a reasonable fee for chasing it when it would never go to court , them ? PE dont have fancy lawyers or there would be hundreds of people being taken to court over it , as it happens there isnt and in my opinion and mine and many others it is easier and less time consuming to simply ignore them. At the end of the day its up to the person if they want to appeal or ignore , but like me there are literally hundreds of people locally who have ignored the letters , threats and unjustified "fee's" and they stopped at the same point with everyone ( third letter ) if they could have legally done something about it to get the money they would have ....but they haven't and us "tards" still have our money in our pockets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If PE have a letter from the landowners giving them permission to administer charges on their land, then PE can invoice as they see fit. If they choose to chase you through the courts, then they could well get a result. Just because they choose not to in most cases, then does that mean you should still throw it in the bin? Basically (and this is what it boils down to), it's people trying to get something for nothing. If you park on a bit of land and you know that you should be paying to park there, then cough up. Morally that's the right thing to do, whether you agree with those charges or not they're almost always in plain sight. In the case of the OP I do have a certain amount of sympathy, but still he could've checked for change and/or phone signal before parking. Not saying I would've done any different (I wouldn't), but the option is there. The OP could have gone and done his shopping, got some change, then come back and paid for a ticket for as long as he was there for. Yes, the bill still would've come through the door, but you would've had cast iron proof you paid for the amount of time you were there, albeit retrospectively. FWIW, I've ignored a letter from them before too, albeit for one of my drivers rather than personally, so I don't claim to sit on the high horse without a flaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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