tez162003 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I removed all 4 calipers off my car to refurb them, fitted them back on recently. The system completely drained out the fluid when the calipers were off. So I filled up I have bled them several times, probably had about 3.5 litres of fluid pass through. But the brake pedal is still really really soft. As in I drive it up the road and it doesn't even have enough pressure to rub the surface rust off the discs. When the car is turned off, after a couple of pumps of the pedal it does go hard, but when the car is started the brake feels soft. Then driving it is just a no no. Could this just be air still in the damn system, or can it be a possible 'flipped seal' or air in the master cylinder, how can I tell what it is? Any help hugely appreciated, I'm at my wits end with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisS Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 From what I've read on here (mainly zmanalex), the rule is 'never' let the master get air in it. Think that will be your problem so lots and lots of bleeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tez162003 Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 What happens if you get air in the master cylinder? Why does a simple bleed not remove whatever air got into the master cylinder. I have bled several liters through the system already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisS Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 For those answers, you need the tecky boys. Sorry I ain't one. Alex,Mitz(CS), Jez(Horsham),Mark(Abbey) , Attkin666 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 You can also get air in the ABS unit which is a nightmare to get out. Really does sound like air in the system unless you have brake fluid leaking from somewhere when you brake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tez162003 Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 had all the leaking this that and the other, seems to be sealed now, when I pump the pedal with the car off, the pedal goes hard and stays there, doesn't seem to sink. How the hell do you get air out an abs unit? Christ almighty, just want this finished so I can have my car back. Cant even drive it to a bloody garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 When I did mine - and I removed all the brake lines in the engine bay to respray it, I had issues the first time bleeding. I was told this solution and it worked for me - Bleed the brakes until as you say the pedal goes hard when the car is off Wedge a piece of wood from the drivers seat (put a bit of card on the seat to protect it) to the brake pedal so it is held hard down. Leave overnight then bleed again. Repeat the above, I did it for 2 nights and the brakes bled out and are fine - not sure if it actually works or it's just a lot bleeding that really solved it Just thought I'd throw it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Sounds like you still have air in the system , did you bleed 1 caliper @ a time? Modern cars you need to bleed a front and rear caliper at the same time as the brake system is split diagonal and to get the full movement on the brake pedal you need to open a front and rear caliper bleed nipple at the same time. Also when bleeding the brakes start with booth nipples open then once you getting no air from the outside nipple close this and carry on bleeding for a while then shut the inner nipple. You do need to use a bleed bottle with clear bleed pipes so you can see air bubbles in the fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 what pattern do you bleed the brakes in? i.e. the order of wheels you do it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tez162003 Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 I have: - bled it all at least 4 times using a bleed kit with clear pipe. - No air has come through for the past 2 long bleeds. - I am doing NSR, OSR, NSF, OSF, however I now know it should be NSR, OSF, OSR, NSF but would that make that much of an issue? - I am doing one caliper at a time, bleeding the rear bleed nipple on the caliper then the front nipple. Being that I let the system drain bone dry, could this not be air trapped in the master cylinder or asb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I have: - bled it all at least 4 times using a bleed kit with clear pipe. - No air has come through for the past 2 long bleeds. - I am doing NSR, OSR, NSF, OSF, however I now know it should be NSR, OSF, OSR, NSF but would that make that much of an issue? - I am doing one caliper at a time, bleeding the rear bleed nipple on the caliper then the front nipple. Being that I let the system drain bone dry, could this not be air trapped in the master cylinder or asb? yes the bleed pattern has a big impact on the zed. people had issues a while back where garages had bleed it to the right pattern and had spoungy brakes, and that was on systems that hadn't been emptied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jell36 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Sounds like you still have air in the system , did you bleed 1 caliper @ a time? Modern cars you need to bleed a front and rear caliper at the same time as the brake system is split diagonal and to get the full movement on the brake pedal you need to open a front and rear caliper bleed nipple at the same time. Also when bleeding the brakes start with booth nipples open then once you getting no air from the outside nipple close this and carry on bleeding for a while then shut the inner nipple. You do need to use a bleed bottle with clear bleed pipes so you can see air bubbles in the fluid. ?!?!?!?! does this mean there is no way you can bleed it on your own? My brake pedal works fine but is a little spongy and the brakes are weak. How much do you guys charge to bleed the system and how long does it take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Same sort of issue I believe viewtopic.php?f=59&t=65481 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watshot Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Same sort of issue I believe http://www.370z-uk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=65481 That's the same bloke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Im not awake yet,sorry,il get my coat...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez @ H-Dev Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I've found if you bleed the brakes with the engine running you can force a lot more of the air out. Do it in the specified order shown in the service manual, outer nipple first, use a clear tube - open the nipple and pump quite hard. Can be a total pain sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tez162003 Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 I have heard try bleeding with the engine on. Would that help get rid of air trapped in the abs pipes? So: - Engine On - Bleed Outer NSR Niplpe - Bleed Inner NSR Nipple - Bleed Outer OSF Nipple - Bleed Inner OSF Nipple - Bleed Outer OSR Nipple - Bleed Inner OSR Nipple - Bleed Outer NSF Nipple - Bleed Inner NSF Nipple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 With the engine on it helps bring the air up through the system due to heat. Last year I had a slightly soft pedal, but generating enough heat in the system and brakes released the air. But I wouldn't recommend doing this if you've got hardly any brakes. As Jez said leave the engine running, it'll help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Bleeding with engine on. That's a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tez162003 Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Car was put onto its axle stands today, not going anywhere for a while so why not. Bled the entire system with 2 hoses, bled both bleed nipples on a caliper at once. I did it in the specified order, bled over 500ml per caliper. No air came out that I could see. I did it with the engine running. Surprise surprise, still shite. I'm getting told all sorts, asb needs to be engaged, I need to back bleed it. I have had enough, cant fix it, cant get it to a garage. I've lost all patiences with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Car was put onto its axle stands today, not going anywhere for a while so why not. Bled the entire system with 2 hoses, bled both bleed nipples on a caliper at once. I did it in the specified order, bled over 500ml per caliper. No air came out that I could see. I did it with the engine running. Surprise surprise, still shite. I'm getting told all sorts, asb needs to be engaged, I need to back bleed it. I have had enough, cant fix it, cant get it to a garage. I've lost all patiences with it. Try Keysers method leaving over night and if still nothing then get it towed to a garage? I know that on others car you need to bleed something before the brakes the abs union or something. On some cars you take it to a dealer or specialist and they activate the abs pump it open a bleed nipple and that should bleed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Where in MK are you Tez? On late shift this week and next,but if it drags on to the week after ( I hope not) then im on an early shift so can come round and help out if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tez162003 Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'm actually in Flitwick, but no one ever knows where that is so I say MK, next closest big town I guess. I have booked it into Japex to get sorted but i'm not really sure how i will be able to get it there. Would be one interesting drive driving it with its very limited brakes haha. I have one last thing to try, which is bleeding the master cylinder then bleed the brakes once more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Ah yes, i know where that is,just by jnc13. Well if you get stuck week after next,then give me a shout and il pop round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tez162003 Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Sounds good, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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