Policeman let conviction overturned....

[Kennydies]

Sigh! 159MPH is not dangerous anymore....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 457871.stm

[GC350z]

Like many appeals it was based around the comment made by the judge.

 

This means that the high court was asked was the comment fair and not is 159mph dangerous.

 

The original judge is at fault for stating his advanced driving skills were “irrelevantâ€

[Chesterfield]

What a farce our legal system is. The force must be so proud.

 

How to instill public support and confidence in the law, let an appeal get another speeding bobby off the hook.

 

What a complete and utter joke.

[Rob_Quads]

I would be interested to see what would happen if someone like a Rally driver was caught going sill fast. They could now use that as an example case to get off.

 

It makes the whole system a nightmare as they are now saying "Oh the limit is not really 70 it depends how good a driver you are" which is sooo subjective its unfrocable

[Beavis]

No what they are saying is, it is 70mph but if your a smug faced copper then you will get away with it. Makes my blood boil.

[alscar]

The whole speeding legislation is a joke!

 

Lets face it, there are plenty of times when it is more than safe to drive in excess of 100MPH on an open piece of motorway in good conditions.. BUT if your doing 40MPH past a school at 9am monday morning, you really should have your legs chopped off!

 

I strugge when I see all the camera vans on major routes, why cant we just police bad drivers! Too tricky? Or perhaps you might have to employ more people do deal with it!

 

Anyway, if speeding on its own was dangerous, the police wouldnt be able to speed at all. I think its fair to say that they are trained to break teh speed limits, so it cant be all that bad!!

 

The whole issue of speeding makes my bloody boil! Im going to stop typing before i bubble over!!!

[Emperor Ming]

No what they are saying is, it is 70mph but if your a smug faced copper then you will get away with it. Makes my blood boil.

 

Guys

I know that this arguement has been done to death but as it is a Saturday afternoon and I am having dinner sat at the computer here goes.

 

Picture this!!

 

PC Smugface is sat on the motorway in his 160mph car when a report of a violent assault comes in on his 'Control to Smugface' radio. Now this assault involves Mr 350z's daughter, little missy Zed, who is, as the message comes in, having unspeakable things done to her by some 'Little Jonny' a poor helpless victim of society. (Shitty little smack rat!!) about three or four miles away.

This is where the scenario splits into two lines.

1. PC Smugface accelerates hard to 70 mph and stays there until he hits the 50 and then 30mph limits, adhering to them to the inch of course, and gets to Little missy Zed in time to see her in a truely sad and sorry state and 'little jonny' disappearing over the hill with a pocket full of valuables and a wicked grin on his face never to be seen again.

 

or

 

 

2. PC Smugface accelerates to 159mph WHICH HE CAN DO SAFELY BECAUSE HE HAS PRACTICED!!!! and get to Little Missy Zed in time to PREVENT the unspeakable things happening to her and in time to apprehend and 'police ' 'little jonny'.

 

Now I know that this is a little idealistic but anyone who has ever tried to master ANYTHING knows that it is only with repetition that expertise comes!!

Believe it or not I am not taking sides here, just trying to explain why the traffic police do utilise speed.

Ming the Helpful (It could be PS Smugface I suppose!! )

PSS Beavis. Your arguement would have been a lot more appreciated if you had not made it personal/insulting towards one section of society. How do you know he was smugfaced??

In todays police force the powers that be are only too quick to try and police their own. Believe me I know it ot my cost!

[Guest prescience]

I think most people appreciate that the police have to 'utilise speed' in certain circumstances to get places quicker. One would like to think that helps them to apprehend more criminals in the act so to speak as you say.

Frankly I doubt it often makes much of a difference - but I really don't know either way.

 

However, the point here is IMO that the level of speed utilised can in no way be justified - it has to be reasonable and proportionate and 159 mph is not on a road with a 70mph limit. The case now may have centred on whether the guy was competent to handle the speed - but in my view, that is actually not the central issue.

 

As to the personal matter, I doubt that the PC in question feels very smug, in fact he's probably had a bloody miserable time whilst all this has happened and may never live it down or recover from it fully. If you asked him, he'd probably say if he replied honestly that he regrets doing it given what has happened. That's the positive in fact because traffic cops are now going to think twice before driving at these extreme speeds because one of their colleagues only just came through it by the skin of his teeth

[Emperor Ming]

I think most people appreciate that the police have to 'utilise speed' in certain circumstances to get places quicker. One would like to think that helps them to apprehend more criminals in the act so to speak as you say.

Frankly I doubt it often makes much of a difference - but I really don't know either way.

 

However, the point here is IMO that the level of speed utilised can in no way be justified - it has to be reasonable and proportionate and 159 mph is not on a road with a 70mph limit. The case now may have centred on whether the guy was competent to handle the speed - but in my view, that is actually not the central issue.

prescience

Hi mate

I agree substantially with what you say and the speed was excessive in almost any circumstance and I would go as far as to say that this WAS NOT one of those circumstances but the police DO NEED to practice spped work.

Their pursuit training is done on public roads and at high speed as an example. The covert surveillance officers routinely practice high speed follows.

An indocation of their expertise is that there are few if any incidents of police collisions OTHER THAN DURING A PURSUIT. This would indicate that police speed work IS safe!!

As an aside I consider myself quite a safe driver with only one blameworthy accident in over 30 years of driving yet I would not go on one of the police advanced driving courses as I did not consider myself of a sufficiently high ability!!

Ming the honest

[Beavis]

No what they are saying is, it is 70mph but if your a smug faced copper then you will get away with it. Makes my blood boil.

 

Guys

I know that this arguement has been done to death but as it is a Saturday afternoon and I am having dinner sat at the computer here goes.

 

Picture this!!

 

PC Smugface is sat on the motorway in his 160mph car when a report of a violent assault comes in on his 'Control to Smugface' radio. Now this assault involves Mr 350z's daughter, little missy Zed, who is, as the message comes in, having unspeakable things done to her by some 'Little Jonny' a poor helpless victim of society. (Shitty little smack rat!!) about three or four miles away.

This is where the scenario splits into two lines.

1. PC Smugface accelerates hard to 70 mph and stays there until he hits the 50 and then 30mph limits, adhering to them to the inch of course, and gets to Little missy Zed in time to see her in a truely sad and sorry state and 'little jonny' disappearing over the hill with a pocket full of valuables and a wicked grin on his face never to be seen again.

 

or

 

 

2. PC Smugface accelerates to 159mph WHICH HE CAN DO SAFELY BECAUSE HE HAS PRACTICED!!!! and get to Little Missy Zed in time to PREVENT the unspeakable things happening to her and in time to apprehend and 'police ' 'little jonny'.

 

Now I know that this is a little idealistic but anyone who has ever tried to master ANYTHING knows that it is only with repetition that expertise comes!!

Believe it or not I am not taking sides here, just trying to explain why the traffic police do utilise speed.

Ming the Helpful (It could be PS Smugface I suppose!! )

PSS Beavis. Your arguement would have been a lot more appreciated if you had not made it personal/insulting towards one section of society. How do you know he was smugfaced??

In todays police force the powers that be are only too quick to try and police their own. Believe me I know it ot my cost!

 

 

I KNOW HE HIS SMUG FACE BECAUSE HIS PICTURE IS ON THE BBC WEBSITE.AND IT WAS NOT INSULTING TO ONE SECTION OF SOCIETY JUST TO THE SMUG FACED COPPER PC MILTON. AND LETS GET ONE THING STRAIGHT WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HE HAD A BLOW OUT AT 159MPH??? I DONT CARE HOW GOOD A DRIVER HE IS HE WOULD HAVE LOST IT.. NO DOUBT KILLING HIMSELF AND ANYONE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE IN HIS WAY. AND IN A SITUATION THAT WAS NOT AN EMERGENCY!!! AND LETS CUT BACK TO THE REAL WORLD SHALL WE. SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE I HAVE WITNESSED CRIMES IN MY LOCAL NEIGHBOURHOOD FROM DRUG DEALING TO ONE MAN DRIVING OVER MY FRONT GARDEN WHILST DRUNK IN HIS CAR. I PHONED THE POLICE UP FOR ONLY THEM TO TURN UP 2 DAYS LATER..... PITY THEY COULD NOT DO 159MPH THEN. IT PISSES ME OFF SEVERELY WHEN THEN A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER I GET A NIP FOR DOING 39 IN A 30 AT 5.20 IN THE MORNING DRIVING ON A ROAD I HAVE DRIVEN ON FOR 25 YEARS. SO WITH MASSES OF EXPERIENCE WHICH COUNTED FOR JACK @*!# I GOT FINED £105 AND 3 PENALTY POINTS FOR THIS.... IN THE SAME COUNTY AS PC MILTON DOING 159 IN A 70.

 

PS ONE OF HIS ARGUMENTS WAS THAT THE ROAD WAS QUIET AND EMPTY, BIT LIKE MY SITUATION AT 0520 IN THE MORNING WITH THE ADDED BONUS OF IT BEEN LIGHT. I WAS 9 OVER THE LIMIT NOT 89 OVER!! I GET FINED £105 AND 3 POINTS. ITS TAKING THE **** OUT OF LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

 

BEAVIS THE ANGRY

[Liam's Z]

[Rob_Quads]

I think everyone agrees that there is a time and a place for the police to speed. In the right circumstance then yes they should be putting thier foot all the way down

 

BUT imo if they want to be practicing that sort of speed they should be doing it on airfields etc which as just as good as a public road. He admitted the road was empty so it was no different to doing it on a private runway where it would have been much safer to do so.

[Beavis]

 

No way dude i was angry

[Liam's Z]

 

No way dude i was angry

 

Thought as much

[mugwump]

........there are few if any incidents of police collisions OTHER THAN DURING A PURSUIT. This would indicate that police speed work IS safe!!

 

Hi Ming,

 

Whilst I agree in principle to what you are saying, and also agree that you need to practice something to improve does the above statement not suggest that the high speed driver training does not completely reflect the emotions, adrenaline, thrill of the chase, or whatever involved in the real world?

 

If it did surely the accident rate would be about the same?

 

I'm not getting into a debate about whether this ruling was right or wrong, I'm just asking why there should be a disparity in the accident statistics between training and the real world because clearly something is different if your statement is correct.

[Emperor Ming]

No what they are saying is, it is 70mph but if your a smug faced copper then you will get away with it. Makes my blood boil.

 

Guys

I know that this arguement has been done to death but as it is a Saturday afternoon and I am having dinner sat at the computer here goes.

 

Picture this!!

 

PC Smugface is sat on the motorway in his 160mph car when a report of a violent assault comes in on his 'Control to Smugface' radio. Now this assault involves Mr 350z's daughter, little missy Zed, who is, as the message comes in, having unspeakable things done to her by some 'Little Jonny' a poor helpless victim of society. (Shitty little smack rat!!) about three or four miles away.

This is where the scenario splits into two lines.

1. PC Smugface accelerates hard to 70 mph and stays there until he hits the 50 and then 30mph limits, adhering to them to the inch of course, and gets to Little missy Zed in time to see her in a truely sad and sorry state and 'little jonny' disappearing over the hill with a pocket full of valuables and a wicked grin on his face never to be seen again.

 

or

 

 

2. PC Smugface accelerates to 159mph WHICH HE CAN DO SAFELY BECAUSE HE HAS PRACTICED!!!! and get to Little Missy Zed in time to PREVENT the unspeakable things happening to her and in time to apprehend and 'police ' 'little jonny'.

 

Now I know that this is a little idealistic but anyone who has ever tried to master ANYTHING knows that it is only with repetition that expertise comes!!

Believe it or not I am not taking sides here, just trying to explain why the traffic police do utilise speed.

Ming the Helpful (It could be PS Smugface I suppose!! )

PSS Beavis. Your arguement would have been a lot more appreciated if you had not made it personal/insulting towards one section of society. How do you know he was smugfaced??

In todays police force the powers that be are only too quick to try and police their own. Believe me I know it ot my cost!

 

 

I KNOW HE HIS SMUG FACE BECAUSE HIS PICTURE IS ON THE BBC WEBSITE.AND IT WAS NOT INSULTING TO ONE SECTION OF SOCIETY JUST TO THE SMUG FACED COPPER PC MILTON. AND LETS GET ONE THING STRAIGHT WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HE HAD A BLOW OUT AT 159MPH??? I DONT CARE HOW GOOD A DRIVER HE IS HE WOULD HAVE LOST IT.. NO DOUBT KILLING HIMSELF AND ANYONE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE IN HIS WAY. AND IN A SITUATION THAT WAS NOT AN EMERGENCY!!! AND LETS CUT BACK TO THE REAL WORLD SHALL WE. SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE I HAVE WITNESSED CRIMES IN MY LOCAL NEIGHBOURHOOD FROM DRUG DEALING TO ONE MAN DRIVING OVER MY FRONT GARDEN WHILST DRUNK IN HIS CAR. I PHONED THE POLICE UP FOR ONLY THEM TO TURN UP 2 DAYS LATER..... PITY THEY COULD NOT DO 159MPH THEN. IT PISSES ME OFF SEVERELY WHEN THEN A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER I GET A NIP FOR DOING 39 IN A 30 AT 5.20 IN THE MORNING DRIVING ON A ROAD I HAVE DRIVEN ON FOR 25 YEARS. SO WITH MASSES OF EXPERIENCE WHICH COUNTED FOR JACK @*!# I GOT FINED £105 AND 3 PENALTY POINTS FOR THIS.... IN THE SAME COUNTY AS PC MILTON DOING 159 IN A 70.

 

PS ONE OF HIS ARGUMENTS WAS THAT THE ROAD WAS QUIET AND EMPTY, BIT LIKE MY SITUATION AT 0520 IN THE MORNING WITH THE ADDED BONUS OF IT BEEN LIGHT. I WAS 9 OVER THE LIMIT NOT 89 OVER!! I GET FINED £105 AND 3 POINTS. ITS TAKING THE **** OUT OF LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

 

BEAVIS THE ANGRY

Hi Mate

I guess by the capitals all the way through that you are angry!!

AT ME????????????

Hell. I only take the queens shilling. I don't write the laws, make the policing decisions, decide how many officers, PCSO's, wardens, car park attendants, or bottom inspectors come to that, that patrol our highways and byways. I don't tell the judges, sitting in their closseted little towers, how to interpret the laws that have been handed down for generations (and bastar*ised by consecutive governments I might add) or what punishments to hand out. I do, as 99.9% of the rest of us on here do, WHAT I AM TOLD!

I don't like speed enforcement and cannot remember when - if ever - I prosecuted someone for speeding. (Thats why I have spent the last six years dealing with drug dealers.)

I can understand your angst and ire at the judicial system. Believe me I REALLY can.

How can it be right that Joe Public, with no previous convictions what so ever, a good job and a valued member of society, can be found guilty of due care and attention at a minor injury accident - sorry collision the PC brigade say we can't call them accidents any more - and receive a whopping fine and 9 pints on his otherwise perfect licence and a day later a drug dealer, found in possession of £2,000 worth of crack cocaine and with a substantial criminal history, get a community punishment that involves talking to nice people and trying not to take drugs and to be a good boy on Fridays and saturdays (Curfew) You cannot fathom the amount of work that went into that file and the pathetic replies I got from CPS when I tried to get them to lodge an appeal. (Would you believe one was that it was 'on the lenient side but not overly so and as such did not think it was worth TRYING'!!!!!!)

As for deciding a persons whole character by a photo in a paper?

I wish I could, because I would be one great copper.

Just like you got upset when you got convicted for speeding and a 'copper' got off I get equally upset when I am tarred with the same brush and the 'all coppers are bast*rds' type attitude crops up!

 

To try and explain a little about police resources and responses you have to understand that there are different departments within the force and not all respond to all incidents.

Before i go any further please don't think that I agree with all or even any of this I am just explaining it as it is.

Traffic officers deal with Motorways, serious potentially fatal accidents, oops collisions, and other serious car stuff. Speeding tends to be dealt with by civilians. (Cameras, motorway stuff, road side snooper vans etc are in South yorkshire at least almost all civilian run)

Bobbies - your average run of the mill officers in Panda cars or - very occasionally - on foot deal with all the phone in stuff. There are very few of these officers any more. To give an example in 1988 West Bar nick used to have a shift of 37 on nights. Now it is less than 10!!!!!!!

A lot of minor stuff, nuisance based as a rule, goes to Neighbourhood teams who have a few bobbies and lots and lots of PCSO's. (Uniform carrying civilians with VERY limited powers) Everything they get - they do not work 24hrs a day I might add- is prioritised and allocated and decided upon and talked about and discussed and eventually risk assesed audit and data trailed and finally dealt with (Do you get the drift of my feelings on them from that?)

When the civilian run control room gets your call about the car that has driven over your lawn AND LEFT they will decide if there is anytthing that the shift bobbies can do then and there. If it is just to look out for the car then they will pass it out over the air. they will then 'tag' the incident for the Neighbourhood team. when they come to work the next day or the day after or whenever they go throught the above process and, and, and, and, .........

Then you have all the teams, of which i am one i might add, who deal witrh specifics.

CID = Murder and up Serously. Volume crime, repaet crime, serious assaults etc.

Domestic violnce/abuse units. What it says on the label

Drug squad. again what it says on the label.

Task force. Anything that requires something being broken into onto or up.

can you see now why there are so few officers to come to your problem?

Ming the placating

 

PS If i had my way I would put 95% of all bobbies, myself included, back onto shift and have great big shifts out and about ALL THE TIME.

Joe public would see, hear and often feel the bobbies out and about and there would be a much better police/public relationship!

[Emperor Ming]

........there are few if any incidents of police collisions OTHER THAN DURING A PURSUIT. This would indicate that police speed work IS safe!!

 

Hi Ming,

 

Whilst I agree in principle to what you are saying, and also agree that you need to practice something to improve does the above statement not suggest that the high speed driver training does not completely reflect the emotions, adrenaline, thrill of the chase, or whatever involved in the real world?

 

If it did surely the accident rate would be about the same?

 

I'm not getting into a debate about whether this ruling was right or wrong, I'm just asking why there should be a disparity in the accident statistics between training and the real world because clearly something is different if your statement is correct.

 

Hi mate

If your are practicing something then it it can get near, often very near, to the real thing but when you do something for real it is always different. When the officer was practicing the high speed driving he would be thinking solely about the driving.

When he is in a pursuit or going to a serious job he is also thinking about the incident. Until you have had to go to a job, not having the faintest idea what you are going to face it is hard to fully understand.

Imagine being told that you are going to a 20 man pub fight with someone bottled and unconcious, you are single crewed and the nearest assistance is going to be four or five minutes behind you. What is going through your mind?? Lots I can tell you not least of all 'Am I going to get filled in myself?' All this is going through your mind AS YOU DRIVE!!

Does this explain al ittle what I meant?

Cheers

Ming the Typist.

PS Mrs Ming has just come home from work poorly so I shall go and tend to her!!