My turn for some career advice

[Ricey]

I have a stable job that I've been in for 6 years from the company start up. In a month we will be 'taken over' by another company although the actual operation I work in will largely still be managed by the same people.

 

I'm still on the same wage as I was 6 years ago (which is very good - hence no payrises) and I'm well regarded and pretty good at what I do (I think people appreciate my rather odd style which adds a different spin on things).

 

I have pretty good amounts of surplus cash each month but I don't have enough to really take the next step in life to a bigger house etc so I tend to give up with thoughts of saving/repaying mortgage ETC and just spunk cash on cars and other items of unnecessary luxury.

 

A mate of mine is a very well established contractor - he earns £800 a day which is considered cheap for what he does. He's constantly trying to get me out contracting but I'm a bit of a wimp and as I only live 3 miles away from usually cannae be bothered living out of a suitcase on short term contracts etc..

 

However his latest bit of work is only in Birmingham (not really commutable from Chester but could prob manage it a couple of days and stay in hotels the rest). Its paying £350-£450 a day which if I can avoid IR35 puts me on something like £80-100k a year. Its initially a 6 month contract with chance of extension.

 

Its a bit of a game changer - that sort of money would really change my life. I'm being given a route into a world that people will kill for by a guy who always seems to fall on his feet and has a network of contractor buddies who seem to look after one another work wise.

 

Problem is it worries me to buggery the thought of leaving my cosy little rutt 3 miles down the road that I've been in since leaving school......I don't NEED the money but I can't really move on without it. I'm a little institutionalised to my own little mircosystem of Cheshire which I've not really strayed from in my 30 years.

 

So whatchoo think? Its Operational Management Consulting and not IT based but the IR35 thing worries me.........If I get caught in that then the income looks a whole lot less attractive and I have to live away from home AND pay for it.

[Will370z]

Its a tricky one, the safety of a fixed income at a guaranteed place of work is nice and safe but its not going to earn you the big bucks unless you own the place.

 

The contracting is bigger risk but bigger rewards.

 

I've got friends who have moved into contracting for the money then others who have moved out of contracting because they never felt any ownership sense of pride for the work or projects they undertook as its a mentality of get one job done move to the next. Some have left for this, some wanted more security. Others stay because they love the cash.

 

I guess if i was in your boat i'd make a list of pros and cons. see which wins. Then consider the risks more, is this likely to be a one off job, what if no subsequent contracts come through, could i easily get a permanent job again. If you can take the risk and have a back up plan if it goes wrong in the worsst case scenario then you have at least prepared yourself.

 

Saying all that im a firm believer in the fact that you only get one shot in this life so don't waste it, if an opportunity comes up you should take it (addmittedly difficult if you have other responsibilities and ties). If you dont you may alwasy look back and wonder what if.... and thats never fun.

 

7 years ago i had to make a similar ish decision but the other way around. I was in a well paid job but hated it. I really wanted to change but risked giving up a fantastic career, great money but hating what i did. I saw an old chap sat on the tube who was looking at me and i thought, if that was me in the future looking back at me now would i think " i wish i had done something different". So i did, i quit my job and went back to uni to start again and do something i really liked.

 

Yes it wasnt fun having no money for a while, and all my friends continued to progress and buy nice houses, cars etc but in all honesty it was the best decision i've ever made. It was a risk but it paid off and now i love what i do.

 

You only live once, dont waste it i say.

[Ricey]

Thats a very key point Will........responsibilities.

 

Currently I have none - no kids, missus who has a good job and looks after herself.......yes I've got the odd degu knocking about but nothing that would stop me working away.

 

There will also be a 'restructure' after 3 months of the new company (loosely veiled redundancies). I would hope to avoid this but currently I am a 'seconded manager' which could potentially mean I am demoted to my original role (where I then become a very expensive asset doing a less skilled job) or I have to battle it out for a management role (which I'm confident I would be successful with).

 

I can't see any payrises being forthcoming and even if there were as an employee a whopper of a payrise (10k) would be next to bloody useless as I'd be paying 40% tax on it.

[glrnet]

At some point I think you will regret this if you don't do it.

 

For me it was the fear of the unknown and giving up all the stability ya da ya da ya................... You are young enough to make a move and correct it if it turns out to be a mistake. I jumped the PAYE ship years ago and if I had done it 10 years earlier I would probably have retired by now There are knowledgeable people on here to speak to regarding tax/accounting issues too.

 

On a sheet of A4 write down a SWOT analysis for each opportunity and see where that takes you. I think you know the answer already though

 

Your man obviously regards you quite highly as do your current employers, we all know how confident you are (in a nice way), you clearly get along with people and people like you. Why not try the 6 month thing and keep your spare cash to yourself for 6 months in case things don't work out, that way you have a cushion to fall back on while you sort yourself out and the experience you gain will be priceless. My guess is you'll make it bigger than your mate eventually. Carpe Diem and all that, with hindsight me spouting all this stuff is easy but I learnt the hard way that I should have done this years ago, believe in yourself, get out of a routine and see WTF happens.

 

Failing that get a job as a journo/novelist/consumers champion!!

 

Just my 2 penny worth, good luck with whatever you decide.

[planetsurfer2]

I've been contracting for about 30 years.

I've lived and worked in 12 countries during that time.

Contracts have run for a couple of days to seven years in the South of France.

It's not for everybody.

If you like a stable home life with family and friends, it's definitely not for you.

If you find it difficult to make new friends and acquaintances, you find it a very lonely existence.

You have to look after your own arse, no excuses, it's all down to you!

You have to better than anyone you work with... It's a very harsh cut throat world.

You have to learn something new every day or you will become obsolete.

You can be sacked in an instance and the contract you have isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

Personally I couldn't do a permie job. My brain would explode with boredom.

[Will370z]

Updated original post with more info.

 

One thing and this is most probably bleedin obvious but if you do go down the contracting route make sure you get advice on how best to minimise tax. It makes a huge difference.

[ChrisS]

Just been chating to Steph, as she has been contracting since 2005.

It's a bit of a leap, as it's suck it and see if you like it.If not then to find another job local.

Are you prepared to travel is the big question???

Stephs working in Manchester at the moment so about 180 miles a day. (61 plate car on 23k)

 

If you want to chat to her one evening or you fancy a drive and a brew, give me a shout.

[Ricey]

You have to better than anyone you work with... It's a very harsh cut throat world.

You can be sacked in an instance and the contract you have isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

These are 2 things that really worry me

a) I don't like fecking people over and I know there is an element of that in any contracting job.

I am a bit of a gobshite if I don't watch myself and people here are well and truly used to that now........it only takes one misplaced word in the wrong ear in a moment of frustration and your out on your arse faster than you can blink.

 

The last time I went for a job like this I didn't have anywhere near the skills but I also tried to be really professional in the interview (which my mate was party to). When I came out he said 'were you ok in there? You just didn't seem yourself at all?!?!?'

 

Might call the bloke interviewing me a 'mongtard' this time and see what happens.

[Sarnie]

Ricey,

 

You know the industry you/we are in is on it's arse. The market is still contracting and personally, I think, you'd be out of that company within the next year or so whether you wanted it or not. When a company gets taken over they will assess the current staff, their roles and their salaries. The higher the salary, the more at risk you are.

 

Therefore, leave. Now.

 

Take the six month contract and live like a pauper. Save as much as possible and assume you won't get another contract. If you don't, then use your savings to live on and get back to PAYE. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

If you do get another contract, then happy days.

[Ricey]

Some very good advice here chaps.

 

I think this company that have taken us over have made some good commitments for the future Sarnie - signed a lease on a new building for 15 years (with break clauses) and have multiple other clients that we could potentially work for (its a bit boring but basically we service a book of debt at the moment.........this company are now going to be servicing this book - but using us).

 

Your right though.......there would be nothing easier to relocate this to their head office which is 200 miles away and save several million in staff and building costs.

[Ekona]

Work on the basis you will fall into IR35. Do you still want to go for it?

 

If you go for it and don't end up with IR35 then it's a lovely bonus. If you do, never mind because you budgeted for it.

[rabbitstew]

Gone are the days when a job is for life and companies actually looked after you. You have been with your firm for 6 years and now its taken over by some other company. They will start looking at what they have and make adjustments, so for all you know your job could end anyway. Companies dont think twice about how loyal their employees are these days.

 

For that sort of money id definitely go for it.

 

The reason I didnt go into contracting many years ago is that I was worried about what if contracts dont come up and you have no work for a while. But, ive quite a few mates who are contractors and they are racking it in and most of my clients I deal with atm also employ contractors - some of whom have been working for the same company for 3 or 4 years! As a contractor! The amount of money they must be earning is staggering - they are always making sure they get in on weekends, and always take 2 or 3 times longer than they need to on the work to claim extra money.

 

As a side note, i went to a review meeting at one clients earlier in the year to review how a project we had just finished went and EVERYONE in the meeting had a brand new car. They were all contractors and over the 6 month project had racked in loads.

[planetsurfer2]

a) I don't like fecking people over and I know there is an element of that in any contracting job -

You only have to be a b*d if you are being treated like a C* and how people treat you is entirely down to your persona.

Most of the time you work nice, sometimes you have to be Atilla the C*.

You only have a functional contract when you get paid for the first months work, So be prepared to walk away.

You get used to be lied too.

I've had some fantastic bosses, agents, colleagues and jobs over the years and have had some real horrors. Just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

I am a bit of a gobshite - I suffer the same disease... But it's better ooot than in. Some places it's cost my job. No regrets! Ever

[Sarnie]

I think going to contracting is less of a risk than for most other people looking to go self employed.

 

I left a salaried job earning £70k+, where I was the top business writer for three years running, to go self employed.

 

I had no six month contract to fall back on, no client bank, nothing. I had to start totally from scratch. Now that was a leap of faith!

 

Five years later I'm still here after trading through the worst recession we've ever seen. The main benefit to me has been the ability to work from home and be here with my two kids every single day, not many blokes get to do that

 

Once I get them to school age and can force the Mrs back to work I might be able to buy a decent car again

[rtbiscuit]

sleep on it, thats what i do with big decisons; sometimes for weeks on end.

 

big money normally comes with high risk, if it was easy they wouldn't pay the big money.

 

I would say life isn't always about the money, i'd rather do a job that i enjoyed and get paid less, rather than do a high paid job i hated. I get bored easily and need a challenge; it keeps me on my toes. I'll never be rich but i know that i'm happy; hence doing the teaching. I wouldn't want to get 40 years down the line and look back on my life and think "what have i actually achieved".

 

I think in this case for you the contracting might give you the challenge you're maybe missing in the PAYE job. by the sounds of it in this career path reputation counts for a lot and thats what you're trading on. so if you do a good job and get the results the work should be a given. being a gobshite just means your human and most people would prefer to hire someone human than some boring robot.

 

sit down and have a chat with your missus. althoguh this is your job, it affects both of you so technically should be a joint decision.

[Fodder]

just my 2p....

 

The company I worked for got taken over 6 years ago, I was a low level IT tech who wasnt in the "clique". I had the same fears as you've gone through and I was also asked a number of times to apply for positions contracting... I was seriously tempted and for a while regretted it - it was local too.

 

I exepcted to be out the door as soon as the IT transition was done as outside of my peers I didnt feel i was valued - I still have quite low self esteem.

 

I'm still there and feel more rewarded than I ever did in the old company..in fact 15 years ago tomorrow I joined. I'm now a consultant working on global projects and the only memebr of my team outside of North America.

 

To be fair I dont feel any more safe than i did 6 years ago I just feel my skills, knowldege and experience now hold me in good stead if anything should happen.

 

It has worked out ok for me, i dont have any real regrets but I do wonder "what if" at times but I do know I do have that option open still.

A couple of good friends of mine are still contracting and it can mean long days, lots of travel and other than money no reward.

 

Only you can decide if it's for you.... oh and I'd take ChrisS's offer up of a chat, his wife was here for a year or two probably more.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide

 

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is the new company may not be as bad as you're expecting, in fact they may offer you more opportunities.

Oh and I can be a bit quick off the mark if the wrong thing is said too

[Ricey]

sit down and have a chat with your missus. althoguh this is your job, it affects both of you so technically should be a joint decision.

 

I think her rather helpful input thus far has been 'why on earth wouldn't you do it you bellend'.

 

Harsh!

 

I think the pound of flesh they expect from you is 12 hour days 5 days a week in return for the exorbitant day rate.

 

Dan I thought about the 'worst case scenario' situation and it would still be worth my while but rather than tripling my money I'd be increasing it by about 50% minus any accomodation, food, travel...........probably only 25% uplift.

 

My mate seemed very shocked when I asked if it would fall under IR35 but reading up on the net I'm not so sure........suppose he's got the experience to make that statement but it makes a big difference and no one other than a pro accountant can tell you really.

[Ricey]

Just been chating to Steph, as she has been contracting since 2005.

It's a bit of a leap, as it's suck it and see if you like it.If not then to find another job local.

Are you prepared to travel is the big question???

Stephs working in Manchester at the moment so about 180 miles a day. (61 plate car on 23k)

 

If you want to chat to her one evening or you fancy a drive and a brew, give me a shout.

 

sorry Chris I missed this..........I may take you up on that if 'the plan' comes off with the car ......which I might add I got back today with its 'new' second hand gearbox - driving but it doesn't feel right ......she's gotta go!

[Stew]

I have been offered contract positions a few times. I have never taken them as they wern't always that long term. I have a mortgage so if it went to crap I'd be potentially up the creek. The biggest one was that my misses is a PhD student so she couldn't support me if needed.

 

One thing I will say as someone that used to travel a lot is, what do you think about being away from 'home' and more to the point, what does Carla think about you being away? If you/her hate it what kind of options would you have? Could you go back to 'normal' money?

 

Also, what kind of benefits do you get at the moment? Good pension etc?

[soimafreak]

I think its swings and roundabouts, I'm currently permie but I imagine if I change I will go contracting, yes there's a risk, but play the pessimistic game, assume you'll work half of the year on the lowest end of the daily rate, if you can still survive on that then all is well.

 

As for not wanting to be an arse, I would try not to see it that way, you're providing a service based on a contract, if it's out side of the contract it's up to you to determine if it's worth doing it for free or not, and likewise define a day that is 9-6pm and put in your contract an hourly rate if you go beyond, you don't have to use it, but it's a good persuasion tool if they start expecting 12 hour days.

 

One of my friends contracts and makes a point to always ask for more money when re-negotiating the contract, or to ask for more flexible working; his view point is you need to encourage them to get rid of you, and if not, they should recognise your value. I also have another friend that will charge a lot higher for daily contracts and reduces the figures for more stable contracts.

 

As for personality, you'll just have to try harder in the first few weeks until people know you and then you'll probably find you can be more like your old self.

 

I think if there's an opportunity for you to do it and the contract is 6 months, that's a nice simple way into contracting, but just bear in mind you may get to the end of that contract and be without work for a couple of months. Also bear in mind a 6 month contract may turn into a 2 day contract when they decide to cancel the whole project, but you can probably write something into the contract for a cancelation fee, like 1 day's pay, if the notice period is less than 2 weeks.

 

anyway, just my 2p, Good luck with it all.

[Ricey]

I have been offered contract positions a few times. I have never taken them as they wern't always that long term. I have a mortgage so if it went to crap I'd be potentially up the creek. The biggest one was that my misses is a PhD student so she couldn't support me if needed.

 

One thing I will say as someone that used to travel a lot is, what do you think about being away from 'home' and more to the point, what does Carla think about you being away? If you/her hate it what kind of options would you have? Could you go back to 'normal' money?

 

Also, what kind of benefits do you get at the moment? Good pension etc?

 

I've got 2 mortgages

 

Being away from home is a worry for me but I've got to grow a pair at some point and realise that there is a wolrd outside Chester Business Park. Carla moved out a month or 2 back as we needed some space from one another as working together and living together was proving a bit much so we'll probably find it does us even more good.

 

Get a reasonable pension but it still amounts to feck all based on my pension projections (8k a year in 2099 or something!). Private health (could get myself and has been useful with my injuries), full sick pay for 3 months then half for another 3, 4x annual salary life assurance.

 

Apart from the security of being ill and being paid the benefits are nothing I couldn't walk away from.

[Stew]

I have been offered contract positions a few times. I have never taken them as they wern't always that long term. I have a mortgage so if it went to crap I'd be potentially up the creek. The biggest one was that my misses is a PhD student so she couldn't support me if needed.

 

One thing I will say as someone that used to travel a lot is, what do you think about being away from 'home' and more to the point, what does Carla think about you being away? If you/her hate it what kind of options would you have? Could you go back to 'normal' money?

 

Also, what kind of benefits do you get at the moment? Good pension etc?

 

I've got 2 mortgages

 

Being away from home is a worry for me but I've got to grow a pair at some point and realise that there is a wolrd outside Chester Business Park. Carla moved out a month or 2 back as we needed some space from one another as working together and living together was proving a bit much so we'll probably find it does us even more good.

 

Get a reasonable pension but it still amounts to feck all based on my pension projections (8k a year in 2099 or something!). Private health (could get myself and has been useful with my injuries), full sick pay for 3 months then half for another 3, 4x annual salary life assurance.

 

Apart from the security of being ill and being paid the benefits are nothing I couldn't walk away from.

 

 

Sounds like a good move then to be honest. Travelling (even in the UK) makes you grow. I moved to Russia - a country I knew naff all about and didn't speak the lingo) at age 20 and I can honestly say it made me the person I am today.

[stanzed]

I see from your profile you are only 30.

Forget about the bigger house,better car etc for a bit.

Go for the new job.

Build up a nice reserve of cash then you have the option of reviewing your situation and make another decision to move on or stay put.

 

Good luck with whatever it is you decide .You are lucky you have options!

[Ekona]

I moved to Russia - a country I knew naff all about and didn't speak the lingo) at age 20 and I can honestly say it made me the person I am today.

Are you trying to put him off??!!

[Sarnie]

I moved to Russia - a country I knew naff all about and didn't speak the lingo) at age 20 and I can honestly say it made me the person I am today.

Are you trying to put him off??!!

 

Stew's done well for himself;