adamphillie251185 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 what are the best headers to buy for value and performance and were . how hard are the to fit too??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gball1973 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Subject has been covered before. Cost(including labour) Vs gains means it's not worth doing on it's own - you're really looking at an engine out job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyBoy Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 what are the best headers to buy for value and performance and were . how hard are the to fit too??? Headers aren't value for performance. They just aren't. They're a total PITA to fit with the engine still in, it's possible but expensive. Headers are something you should consider alongside cams as part of a proper N/A build, they're unlikely to give you more than 10bhp for your £2k otherwise. The fact that you've asked this question suggests that you shouldn't consider such a build until you do a LOT more research. DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 £2k? maybe £800-£900 with labour from a garage. Very good mod, gives good Gaines but poor bhp per £ though. what are the best headers to buy for value and performance and were . how hard are the to fit too??? Headers aren't value for performance. They just aren't. They're a total PITA to fit with the engine still in, it's possible but expensive. Headers are something you should consider alongside cams as part of a proper N/A build, they're unlikely to give you more than 10bhp for your £2k otherwise. The fact that you've asked this question suggests that you shouldn't consider such a build until you do a LOT more research. DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 £2k? maybe £800-£900 with labour from a garage. Very good mod, gives good Gaines but poor bhp per £ though. what are the best headers to buy for value and performance and were . how hard are the to fit too??? Headers aren't value for performance. They just aren't. They're a total PITA to fit with the engine still in, it's possible but expensive. Headers are something you should consider alongside cams as part of a proper N/A build, they're unlikely to give you more than 10bhp for your £2k otherwise. The fact that you've asked this question suggests that you shouldn't consider such a build until you do a LOT more research. DB Its not though. People will happily pay £8-900 for an exhaust setup & gain 3-4 HP. A set of headers & installation will cost around the same & give better gains. Most people just begrudge paying the higher labour charges for fitting. Just get a decent brand of header & once they are in then its all good. An engine out job? No. It is easier to do it with the engine out but its perfectly doable with the engine in place. My setup was DC headers which cost me £75 on ebay (OK they were cheap, but DC's wont break the bank to buy new) & 10 Hours labour costing £400. Thats £475, Not much more than buying a pair of Berks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamphillie251185 Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 sorry should have put abit more info i have a stage 3 stillen supercharged z everything done apart from header pipes but dont know if worth doing ive got decats on and miltek system. headers and cams are only things left standard. but weighing up if its any point in a set of header pipes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamphillie251185 Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 £2k? maybe £800-£900 with labour from a garage. Very good mod, gives good Gaines but poor bhp per £ though. what are the best headers to buy for value and performance and were . how hard are the to fit too??? Headers aren't value for performance. They just aren't. They're a total PITA to fit with the engine still in, it's possible but expensive. Headers are something you should consider alongside cams as part of a proper N/A build, they're unlikely to give you more than 10bhp for your £2k otherwise. The fact that you've asked this question suggests that you shouldn't consider such a build until you do a LOT more research. DB Its not though. People will happily pay £8-900 for an exhaust setup & gain 3-4 HP. A set of headers & installation will cost around the same & give better gains. Most people just begrudge paying the higher labour charges for fitting. Just get a decent brand of header & once they are in then its all good. An engine out job? No. It is easier to do it with the engine out but its perfectly doable with the engine in place. My setup was DC headers which cost me £75 on ebay (OK they were cheap, but DC's wont break the bank to buy new) & 10 Hours labour costing £400. Thats £475, Not much more than buying a pair of Berks that doesnt sound bad to me i guess do they suffer from cracking or broke welds???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Aslong as you buy a decent branded pair you should have no issues with cracking. Just avoid ebay tat & Japspeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyBoy Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Aslong as you buy a decent branded pair you should have no issues with cracking. Just avoid ebay tat & Japspeed My £2k estimate was based on something top draw like Crawford headers which would give you the best possible gains and would work all the way through to a balls-out N/A build. adamphillie; apologies for the slightly arsey reply, lol, the fact that you've got a stage 3 stillen does change things a bit. The important thing to get right is the match-up between your headers and cams. Just looking at the lift and duration of cams doesn't tell the whole story, so do a bit of research of people with similar set-ups and look at what works and what doesn't. For example the Crawford headers with a Tomei cam grind seems to be one of the best (and most expensive) options for letting the engine rev, but with the stillen I'm guessing a higher rev limit isn't really what you're after so have a look at pairings that improve the midrange instead. The information is out there DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamphillie251185 Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Aslong as you buy a decent branded pair you should have no issues with cracking. Just avoid ebay tat & Japspeed My £2k estimate was based on something top draw like Crawford headers which would give you the best possible gains and would work all the way through to a balls-out N/A build. adamphillie; apologies for the slightly arsey reply, lol, the fact that you've got a stage 3 stillen does change things a bit. The important thing to get right is the match-up between your headers and cams. Just looking at the lift and duration of cams doesn't tell the whole story, so do a bit of research of people with similar set-ups and look at what works and what doesn't. For example the Crawford headers with a Tomei cam grind seems to be one of the best (and most expensive) options for letting the engine rev, but with the stillen I'm guessing a higher rev limit isn't really what you're after so have a look at pairings that improve the midrange instead. The information is out there DB great thanks for info ill have a good look and get as much info as can..... no probs about rply either prob should of gave full story too lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 If your running a S/C I would be very carefully fitting cams, running anymore overlap will cause drop in boost pressure and the cams will not give the gain you would think. The Stillen running in stage 3 spec is on it's limit I would say, we have found they aren't very efficient at stage 1 level let alone @ stage 3 boost levels. Headers I have said this before they aren't worth the money to fit labour wise unless you have the motor out , they don't give the gains people think on a stock rod/piston and valve spring car as you a rev limited to RPM. The cars running uprated cam springs/caps/rods and pistons and headers give a gain at the top end we have found but on a stock motor they aren't worth fitting. What ECU have you tuned your car with? running stock AFM and Stillen injectors? Best gain on a DE or a Rev Up motor is a HKS/GTM or Vortech S/C tuned to run around 380ish hub bhp. nice car to drive, very smooth power/torque curve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamphillie251185 Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 If your running a S/C I would be very carefully fitting cams, running anymore overlap will cause drop in boost pressure and the cams will not give the gain you would think. The Stillen running in stage 3 spec is on it's limit I would say, we have found they aren't very efficient at stage 1 level let alone @ stage 3 boost levels. Headers I have said this before they aren't worth the money to fit labour wise unless you have the motor out , they don't give the gains people think on a stock rod/piston and valve spring car as you a rev limited to RPM. The cars running uprated cam springs/caps/rods and pistons and headers give a gain at the top end we have found but on a stock motor they aren't worth fitting. What ECU have you tuned your car with? running stock AFM and Stillen injectors? Best gain on a DE or a Rev Up motor is a HKS/GTM or Vortech S/C tuned to run around 380ish hub bhp. nice car to drive, very smooth power/torque curve. hey i spoke to youre tunner and im waiting to hear back about a hand held device to be able to better tune the car as runing a stillen ecu piggy back system .its running a full stillen setup fuel system im not botherd about cams and understand the risk as its s/c think ill just give headers a miss.... i cant rmbr the device i was told to check out i checked one out but was discontinued and copyrites bought by another company,but like i said i havent heard anythhing else back yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 hey i spoke to youre tunner and im waiting to hear back about a hand held device to be able to better tune the car as runing a stillen ecu piggy back system .its running a full stillen setup fuel system im not botherd about cams and understand the risk as its s/c think ill just give headers a miss.... i cant rmbr the device i was told to check out i checked one out but was discontinued and copyrites bought by another company,but like i said i havent heard anythhing else back yet You spoke to someone @ Abbey? I have't spoke to you I am sure and I don't know of any hand held devices for tuning the split second box, these are tuned via a program on a laptop. Get rid of the split second box , fit a fuel return system and tune the car with Uprev system, car will drive far better and be controlled better these cars dont like piggy back systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamphillie251185 Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 hey i spoke to youre tunner and im waiting to hear back about a hand held device to be able to better tune the car as runing a stillen ecu piggy back system .its running a full stillen setup fuel system im not botherd about cams and understand the risk as its s/c think ill just give headers a miss.... i cant rmbr the device i was told to check out i checked one out but was discontinued and copyrites bought by another company,but like i said i havent heard anythhing else back yet You spoke to someone @ Abbey? I have't spoke to you I am sure and I don't know of any hand held devices for tuning the split second box, these are tuned via a program on a laptop. Get rid of the split second box , fit a fuel return system and tune the car with Uprev system, car will drive far better and be controlled better these cars dont like piggy back systems. yeah spoke to someone there im sure going back a couple of weeks ago now were very helpfull mentioned a ecu to do all called haltech but was coming in at 1500 quid and said didnt know if needed a traction controll system to run correctly. so how much would the system youre talking about cost too setup??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 yeah spoke to someone there im sure going back a couple of weeks ago now were very helpfull mentioned a ecu to do all called haltech but was coming in at 1500 quid and said didnt know if needed a traction controll system to run correctly. Sure it was Abbey not AEM? I would not use a Haltech , would advise to use a Syvecs stand alone before a Haltech ECU. To tune the car with Uprev at a minimum your also need a Uprev Air Flow meter to go with the Uprev License and remap. This will cost including dyno time £1042.00 inc vat. I would prefer to tune the car with a fuel return system , to keep the base fuel pressure constant , running a F/I car with out a fuel return system your lowering the base fuel pressure as the boost climbs , this can cause the injector spray pattern to deteriorate, running a fuel return system allow the fuel preesure to ris ein relation to boost pressure so keeping the base fuel pressure consistent. But I have tuned car without a fuel return systems fitted. Running the remapped stock ECU give you full diagnostics, limp home, if you have cruise fitted this will still work and you can have multi maps ( I tend to just have different throttle response's. I can add a unleaded map but I also tend to set these up with lower rev limit and speed limit's to ensure the car isnt driven hard on unleaded fuel and the engine could be damaged. Any more questions ask away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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