coldel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Yes the issue of pensions is getting daft, wanting to keep to terms (which in fairness was agreed) but are completely unrealistic in this new financial environment. If you look at the voting on all these issues though its usually about 25% of the public workforce voting for strikes etc but the unions are bullies, Rich for example might have some views on striking, or not as the case may be. But the point is, one does need the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 i can only speak from a teaching perspective, but personally i dn't like being lumped in with all the UNITE type people. and i'm not actually a member of any union as i don't agree with them, i don't strike and have agreed with the need for change. but as a teacher i earn alot less than i could do in industry, i do a very difficult job, that everyone seems to have an opinion on how it should be done but very rarly want to do it themselves. it has some of the highest stress rates in the country and highest levels of early retirement due to ill health and depression. i'm sorry but i think i earned my pension pot at the end, and most likely i'll die 18 months after picking it up as its also been seen that once teachers stop and retire the body relaxs to the point of death if you want my pension you're all more than welcome to come spend 45 years with me and a bunch of kids in a classroom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 The judge said I'm not allowed to be alone with kids anymore, so I can't take you up on your kind offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 The judge said I'm not allowed to be alone with kids anymore, so I can't take you up on your kind offer its what happens when you beat one to within an inch of its life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Given that Im paying about £0.5m in corporation tax and national insurance for employees every year, you would think I could have a decent pension off the government when I retire, but in order to get a pension on par with the average teacher, (£24,000 pension) Ive got to put in another £800k or so over my working life. To get the equivalent pension of a head teacher, I'd need to squirrel away about £1.5m over my working life. If I don't, then I can look forward to retiring two years later than a public sector worker, on a pension less than one fifth the size. So over say 40 years, I will have paid around £20m in corporation tax and NI (not accounting for inflation), and put in £20,000 per year into a pension for fourty years, to receive exactly the same retirement benefit as the average teacher that will have made about £100,000 in contributions. Leaving any earnings during the job aside, and if I weren't my own boss and were just a standard private sector employee, say an engineer or a retail middle manager or a car salesman etc, I would still need to put £800,000 into a pension fund to get the same pension as a teacher. Its this that gets the private sector folk wound up and why many have zero sympathy with public sector who strike over the pension reforms. Now Im not saying teachers dont work hard, far from it, but £800,000 over their working life harder than the equivalent private sector employee? Does a head teacher work £1.5m harder than a factory employee over their lifetime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I keep wanting to post something, but then my exact thoughts magically appear on the page under the "Chesterfield" user name. Spooky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I keep wanting to post something, but then my exact thoughts magically appear on the page under the "Chesterfield" user name. Spooky. I get that too. Good this forum innit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Its the ones that already take the p*** that is the problem. This is just another way for them to take it. Literally about to type this...........you know exactly who will exploit this..........the gits who already exploit everything they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 They won't have to take the p*ss now, it's actually handed to them on a gilt edged platter. Oh, and Ed Milliband today admitted on behalf of his party that they actually got it wrong by allowing unlimited access to European nationals. Wow, well done Ed Just read the two posts above this, sorry if I thought the same Its the ones that already take the p*** that is the problem. This is just another way for them to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Well, weve gone about as far as we can in giving people who dont work at all the ability to rip the country off. We may as well give those who just about manage to drag themselves to work the ability to rip it off as well. Equality and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It works both ways, someone that is off sick can also be put on holiday and remember that sick pay is optional, only SSP legally has to be paid. Anyone of my staff that takes the pi$$ gets taken out of the company sick scheme and then gets absolutely nothing other that ssp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Chesterfield, I salute you my friend, not often I see someone who has things as bang on as that. RTbiscuit, not havign a pop but .......... once teachers stop and retire the body relaxs to the point of death Erm ......... most of the rest of us graft pretty hard too - working 9-4 with 13 weeks holiday a year and no chance of ever being fired doesnt strike me as overly stressful I do agree though, teachers shouldnt be lumped in with the rest of the public sector, you guys do work bloody hard (as do Nurses, Military, Police) but unfortunately thats balanced out by the complete apathy and lack of energy of the "proper" civil service that actually scares me when I see it firsthand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will370z Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I've always had the option to do this in my jobs but never taken it up, I'd feel really guilty asking for time back. I'm pretty sure they ask for evidence if we tried which is perfectly understandable. Seems to my there are far more important things they should be looking into rather than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 +1, don't they understand that there are guys out here who can't get 370z wheels matched when refurbing!!!!! I've always had the option to do this in my jobs but never taken it up, I'd feel really guilty asking for time back. I'm pretty sure they ask for evidence if we tried which is perfectly understandable. Seems to my there are far more important things they should be looking into rather than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm pretty sure they ask for evidence if we tried which is perfectly understandable. The company I worked for needed a doctors sick note that started at least 7 days before the first day of your holiday. They would also reduce your holiday entitlement depending on the length of your absence. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 It could be worse guys...when I was in Japan a colleague developed pneumonia and had to take a week off, which of course came out of his leave entitlement as per the rules. He only had three days leave left so he had to come into the office for two days whilst he had pneumonia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Totally agree with everything said about public sector vs private sector, they get absolutely zero sympathy from me over pensions whatsoever. Just because the rediculous pensions of the past are being rationalised is no excuse to strike and cause even more damage to an already fragile economy.... Could be worse I guess, we could be greek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'd like to add my voice to those on here who don't take kindly to the assumption that everyone in the public sector is lazy or on the scrounge. I work longer than average hours and rarely if ever get time for a lunch break. I also do a lot of work in my own time - evenings, weekends etc for which I don't get additional pay. I earn quite good money these days, but it's taken a long time to get to this point. Politicians must love sitting back and watching people from each sector bitching about the other; it's a convenient way to deflet attention from their own failings. Certainly in the Department I work for it's been permissible to claim back time in lieu of illness on holiday for as long as I can remember. I've never come across a single person in 18 years who has actually done it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Totally agree with everything said about public sector vs private sector, they get absolutely zero sympathy from me over pensions whatsoever. Just because the rediculous pensions of the past are being rationalised is no excuse to strike and cause even more damage to an already fragile economy.... Could be worse I guess, we could be greek I don't have a problem with Doctors, Police, etc having their pensions "adjusted", I do however feel that M.P's should also have theirs downgraded too. An MP's salary is £65k, after just 15 years of service they pick up a pension of £24k and they've just awarded themselves a 2.4% increase, talk about do as I say, not as I do Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioneabee Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I am utterly p*ssed off to the hilt with a lot of these comments on public sector - you're branding every single person with the same negative brush. As Spira just said, I work bloody long hours for about half of what I would receive if I was in the private sector, so to compensate for that I expect to receive a pension that could be called satisfactory...... as it is my pension after these latest changes will be £11,500 per year, woopy f*cking doo This is why I started my own company to enable me to "live", because on my salary, well lets just say that those I give "advice" to, be they professional or "blue" collar, on average earn near double mine. So please don't start on the "lazy" public sector, because its all hype and 99.9% untrue - I believe someone even noted that alot of this is generated by politicians to deflect scrutiny from themselves. The 0.1% that is true also applies to the private sector - so no difference then really is there ? ok - thats me climbing off my soapbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 as it is my pension after these latest changes will be £11,500 per year, woopy f*cking doo So only about three times the average private sector pension and one which would take a private sector employee about £250-300,000 of contributions to match. I now see why the public sector is so angry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 as it is my pension after these latest changes will be £11,500 per year, woopy f*cking doo So only about three times the average private sector pension and one which would take a private sector employee about £250-300,000 of contributions to match. I now see why the public sector is so angry... +1 nobody is saying all public sector workers are lazy or not as important as the private sector, just that they shouldn't by right have a pension that they pay very little towards and is far more than the equivalent worker in the private sector paying full contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Builder49 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Was going to sit back and say nothing (which for me is pretty unusual), but then I thought 'what the hell, I have to say something here as an employer myself'. Then I realised Chesterfield had said it all for me I do think though that the main thing here is that the 'USUAL FACES' will be the ones that show up to take advantage of any European backed law. Might not be legal, or hold up in a court of law, but all my guys are on 3 month rolling contracts. Anyone that takes the 'P' finds their new contract is a zero hours one......... Luckily most of them are pleased to be working at the moment in the building trade and are prepared to suck it up to keep in work. I must add though that as repayment for their loyalty they have all received annual payrises over the last 4 years of around 4.5% per year, at a time when many builders are either getting cut back or not working at all ! The annoying bit is all the people that want to avoid VAT by paying cash. But thats another story..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 i'm sorry but as a teacher i'm on about half what i could be in the private sector. what i work and what i get paid for would put me rougly on minimum wage. i can;t retire till 70 and thats 40 years away, already done 8 years, so who knows what it will be by the time i get there. i'm currently a bog standard teacher but i'd put my work load equivilant to that of say an engineering manager of a decent sized department which would be a salary of about £60k a year. i'm sorry that you don;t like my pension but i think its the balance to the job. honestly i know most of you think you work hard but come try mine for a year and then tell me its easy. and i speak from experience as i've worked in both private and public sector. and i know which is easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 So why not work in the private sector then if its that easy to double your salary and get a much less stressful life. The extra £30k you could earn could be put into a pension each year and you would be ale to retire on the same benefit. Nobody is saying that public sector workers dont work hard, what we are saying is that many are truly misguided on how out of touch their pensions (and other perks in other public sector offices) are compared with the private sector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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