Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Please tell me my eyes are deceiving me. European courts have apparently ruled that workers who are ill during annual leave, are entitled to paid leave later in the year. Has anyone with half a brain thought this through? I know its blasphemy but Jesus H Christ. So, Fred decides he is having a fortnight in Egypt. Gets Pharaoh's Revenge on the second day and has the squits for two weeks, comes home and tells me as an employer he wants another two weeks because he was ill on those two. Oh right, and whos paying for Freds replacement while he has another two weeks I hadn't budgeted for? And Jane's extra two weeks, when she twiggs that Freds got extra free holiday because he was "ill" thousands of miles away from anyone from that could prove otherwise, and John's when he saw Jane and Fred taking the pish? What on earth is swimming about in the brains of these utter tossers making these rules up?? Can they come up with any more brilliant schemes to crush business in any shape or form. There is no wonder we are in the dire mess we are. What an absolute joke. I'd love to grow my own company and keep it going for years, employing many - but its idiotic things like this that make me want to shut up shop, take the money, retire to the sun and make dozens of people unemployed in the process. What exactly is the point in trying to run a business with courts making rulings like that. I truly give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I thought that was applicable already? Never asked for extra holiday just took it as bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Remind me again how Europe is doing in terms of economy? And they wonder why things are screwed On a related note, we got a young lad with us who does one day a week at college. Apparently he's only supposed to do a maximum of 27 hours a week with us, with a further 8 being the lone day at college! That's not remotely close to 5 days work, how the hell do they expect us to teach him anything?! Luckily the kid's got a sensible head on his shoulders and ignores it, but what a stupid idea. Was never like that when I did my course 10+ years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Wait a miniute! Where is the article on this? This can't be right. I know all my staff will suddenly decide to go ill whilst on holiday then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFF Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I've been entitled to that for the last 20 odd years, but like Wasso I've never taken advantage... My wife works for the local council and most of her team regard sickness entitlement as annual leave and see nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Wait a miniute! Where is the article on this? This can't be right. I know all my staff will suddenly decide to go ill whilst on holiday then. Knock yourself out.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18534028 Absolutely unbelieveable. Ive seen comments such as "Being ill while you are on leave is not your fault so you are still entitled to the leave. This has always been applied by most employers." Err, no it most certainly has not. Iits not the employers fault either, but they are the ones that must get their hands in their pockets to pay for it in lost work hours. At least I have a bunch of employees that I am confident in who will not take the pish, but there will be places out there that are not so lucky and will have workers taking advantage of this as of this afternoon no doubt. Brilliant, simply brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 My wife works for the local council and most of her team regard sickness entitlement as annual leave and see nothing wrong with that. No surprise. In my dealings with the public sector, they havent got the first clue. If the public sector was run like a private business without a bottemless pot of money, they would be bankrupt within a year due to morons who think thats the right attituide. The public sector, and this European court do realise that every single copper penny within the economy is generated from private business dont they...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have had a situation where I had annual leave and fell ill halfway through and came back early (glandular fever), my employers gave me the days back at their discretion. Then again, in my industry, employees do probably 3 or 4 full days extra work a month unpaid anyway so its the least they can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 This has applied to every company I've worked for in the last 10 years. However, having bashed my head while on holiday and having to cancel going to the IOW festival I'm still not considering taking this up, I may go in to work on Monday though instead of the planned Tuesday return date to claw back a day holiday though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I wouldn't even ever have dreamed of asking for time back if I was ill on annual leave (the fact it's my own business aside!), I would just look at it as incredibly bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 WHA?? Ive just told the boys who work for me that they can whistle if they want holiday for being sick while off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I didnt ask for the time back, the employer gave it back to me. Like I said, the paid hours are 37.5 per week - most people do around 45-50 at least and get paid for 37.5. I guess if you work on a production line you leave on time, in a service industry with global clients employers recognise the flexibility of employees to go on conference calls at 2am and the like so when it comes to giving some back, its usually done. Still, in a job with a clock in clock out approach I can see the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Remember though Chris, you cant take more than 7 days without a "fit to work" note from the doctor, so if they do decide to take sick on holiday then they need to present you with one or you can issue them with a warning. Do it 3 times and they get themselves sacked. So it wont happen all too often I dont think. Also when they move on and want a reference, you will provide their sick record to the next employer of course What is crazy is where I used to work, the offshore guys were allocated sick days per year, something like 7 days. So they'd go on holiday and lowe and behold when you expect them back you get a call saying they are ill! We used to expect it so much than when planning projects we added extra days to their holiday to cover it. Still if they went over their allocated sick days they werent paid and were issued with a formal warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Chris'I, it covers any part of the holiday, so if you had a 10 day holiday and were sick for 3 you could claim for those 3 without a note from "mum". To be honest, how many of your employees actually take the maximum amount of statutory paid sick leave? Most people are honest enough in that respect, why would you assume that people would suddenly lie because they were sick on holiday? My employees generally have 0-3 days off a year each due to sickness, I guess if they reclaimed holiday due to sickness I wouldn't mind too much as I know they don't take the ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have no idea if this happens where I work or not. It's not something I've ever found out. To me it would just be bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think most people don't take the pi$$, when I got my leave back I had been working 6 years without a day off sick. Those that do are pretty obvious and can be dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 The public sector, and this European court do realise that every single copper penny within the economy is generated from private business dont they...? not quiet true, i work in public sector and pay taxes therefore the money i get paid 20% and then some goes back in to the economy. i don't get to choose my holidays, if i'm sick in them then tough, and i regularly work through my holidays as well. i'm not saying i have it harder, but its no walk in the park, and not all public sector workers are spoungers, or idiots, most of those work at county level and we have to deal with them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Its the ones that already take the p*** that is the problem. This is just another way for them to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 The public sector, and this European court do realise that every single copper penny within the economy is generated from private business dont they...? not quiet true, i work in public sector and pay taxes therefore the money i get paid 20% and then some goes back in to the economy. It is 100% true... Where did the money come from to pay you in the first place if you work in the public sector? Without any private sector business in the UK, then we would have zero money. As an example, lets say there is zero private sector business... Treasury starts with £1000 It pays 10 public sector workers £100 It gets say £30 back from each person by way of income tax Treasury now has £300. Everyone spends their £70 on a part for their zed bought from Japan (not using a private business in the UK, as there isnt any...) From the VAT, the treasury now receives £70 X 20% x 10 people = £140. So the treasury now has £440. Where is the other £560 coming from to pay next months £1000 public sector wage bill? Like it or not, every penny in the UK economy is from private business. Thats before we get into the arena of public sector pensions, where they just expect money to grow like magic. Though thats a different topic. Keep killing private sector business, and the public sector cannot survive on its own. Interestingly the private sector created more jobs recently than were lost from public sector, so the shoots of improvement are there, but decisions like this from the EU are just trampling on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 ...and if there was no public sector say, health or education, there would be no educated and no healthy people to work in the private sector I would argue that the public sector if done correctly saves the country money - for example on my year out from uni I wrote recruitment models for the Royal Navy, my models are still used today to predict the drop out rates for training courses for many Navy career routes - without this the recruitment would be much more hap-hazard and cost the country more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 fair enough, but the money we get does end up back in the system like you said, i just find it difficult sometimes when i work extremely hard, yet i sometimes feel i'm seen as some kind of paracite on the underbelly of the private sector. if it wasn't for teachers like myself the private sector would be greatly diminished as there wouldn't be enough qualified people to do the jobs, or it would be completly done by immigrants who were educated else where. you might not like paying for the public sector but who else is going to educate your kids? i do think public and private have to have a symbiotic relationship and that the private sector should be the larger part of the economy (i.e. the amount of people it employs) i don't agree with creating public jobs just for the sake of spending money. but i do think there should be certain rewards to working in the public sector especially if your frontline i.e. teachers, nurses, police etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Last time I was off sick was back in 06 and that was because the company doctor told me to take time off. Otherwise I would have kept going. I get up to 20 weeks full sick pay a year, but I don't touch it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 but i do think there should be certain rewards to working in the public sector especially if your frontline i.e. teachers, nurses, police etc. It could be made a little easier to get into I think though that fundamentally the public sectors goals are not the same as the private sector. The public sector are a 'hygiene factor' for a country to grow, you must have healthy and educated people in a country for it to grow. Private sector makes money of course, but thats its role. There are some very clever, very efficient and very important people working in the public sector - its just unfortunate the inefficient ones are the ones that always make the headlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Indeed, one cannot survive without the other, but increasingly there seems to be a train of thought that somehow the public sector has a "right" to more than the private sector. Public sector already has higher average pay and higher average pensions. Are there any other particular rewards that they should get? Even after pension reform, the public sector workers will have pensions many times that of a private sector individual, yet will have paid in substantially less than a private sector worker would need to in order to receive the same benefit. The shortfall being met by the treasury, again. Putting further strain on employers and providing more ways for employees to drain the coffers is hardly going to improve our economic situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Also, doctors and bus drivers and firemen going on strike can f*ck the hell off. Doctors I almost get, bu the last two? Greedy bastards. Sorry to hijack Chris, wanted to get that off my chest though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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