Thrashable yet reliable 350z upgrade?

[Dynamic Turtle]

Hi all,

 

Thinking well ahead to next year and just wondering which of these are generally considered to be hardest-wearing, most thrashable and enjoyable cars. I'm basically looking for a V8 - simply have the bug and it's a natural progression from the V6 Zed. There are obviously a few good six cylinder engines out there, which I've included on the list. Basically, I'm struggling to find something with the same balance of virtues as the Zed, with a meaningful power increase. I.e. smiles-per-pound / fun factor with a great exhaust note and reasonable service costs and handsome looks. Budget will be in the £18-22k area and £1-1.5k p.a for servicing and consumables. Most of these will obviously be older, high-ish miles examples:

 

Jaguar XK8/XK-R

Porsche 996 Turbo (optimistic)

Maserati 4200gt

Porsche 997 (older 3.4)

Audi S5 (4.2L V8)

Nissan 370z

BMW Z4M Coupe

Porsche Cayman 3.4S (cheaper 997?)

BMW M3 E92 (chavtastic, but good)

 

My guess is that the Nissan will be the most reliable, followed by the Audi, then the Beemers and Cayman. I'm guessing the Mazzer and 911s could deliver some big bills if I'm over-enthusiastic. The Jags? I have no idea how they rate. I love my friend's XK8 though. I like the idea of the S5's 4.2L V8, but is it underpowered given the engine size (340bhp) and could it also be a bit "muted" perhaps? Obviously it looks a tad prosaic. The 4200 is tempting, but is it a reliable daily drive? How would it handle 7,000 miles per year?

 

Any sage advice would be welcome

 

DT

[spursmaddave]

Can't see many of those being affordable AND reliable....

 

370z maybe but I am not keen myself having driven a Couple last year when I thought my 350 had been written off and driving a Roadster recently it hasn't changed my opinion. More power than a 350 yes but as fun and involving to drive... I am not so sure Also the looks are not my cup of tea either.

 

You should get a V8 Jaaaaaag then at least RTBiscuit will have someone to talk to, you can get matching smoking jackets and share a cigar at the club

[rtbiscuit]

Jaguar XK8/XK-R - depends on if its the new shape or the old shape? for that money should be comfortably in to the new shape. personally for a decent move over the zed you need the XKR. the SC makes a huge difference. don't know if you can get a new shape R in that budget though. as for parts and relaiability i have the older one and parts are cheap and plentiful just don;t take it to jag they charge a fortune. find a good independent and its costs are alot more sensible. to get the noise you'll need an exhaust. very quiet in stock form.

Porsche 996 Turbo (optimistic) - speak to ekona

Maserati 4200gt - gorgeous car, great sounding engine (striaght out of a fezza) will spend more time in the garage than on the road. the older 3200 have lots of issues and very expenisve to keep on the road.

 

Porsche 997 (older 3.4) - speak to ekona

Audi S5 (4.2L V8) - love the sleek looks of the car, will be a nice place to be and solid build. should be pretty reliable. would think parts are expensive.

 

Nissan 370z - i don't think you'll find it as much as a jump as you'd hope for.

 

BMW Z4M Coupe - very hard ride, but a great looking car, there was rumour about the longevity of the block due to its construction methods, but not heard any horror stories as yet.

 

Porsche Cayman 3.4S (cheaper 997?) - speak to ekona his brother has the R

BMW M3 E92 (chavtastic, but good) - great drivers car, doesn't stand out as much as it could from its smaller engined brothers.

[marzman]

For that budget i'd rather have one of these V10 beauty's:

 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... ?logcode=p

 

Or maybe a CL?

 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... ?logcode=p

 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... ?logcode=p

[rtbiscuit]

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201220470461012/sort/default/usedcars/price-to/22500/engine-size-cars/4l_to_4-9l/price-from/10000/model/xk/make/jaguar/radius/1500/postcode/ip52hr/page/5/keywords/xkr?logcode=p

 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201207449925615/sort/default/usedcars/price-to/22500/engine-size-cars/4l_to_4-9l/price-from/10000/model/xk/make/jaguar/radius/1500/postcode/ip52hr/page/5/keywords/xkr?logcode=p

 

just about affordable for a new shape XKR would say the new shape is more trackable than the old shape. unless your willing to sink alot into it to make it a track toy.

 

most on your list are nice cars, i'd have great fun testing them all out

[Martin S]

Two cars that come to my mind straight away are;

 

Vauxhall Monaro - 5.7 or 6.0 V8, and quite a common and simple one too, looks great, sideways fun etc.

A work colleague of mine has a rare 6.0 VXR 500, the supercharged one. He paid around 17k for it and is supposed to have 500 BHP.

It hasn't been 100% reliable, it occasionally goes into limp home mode for no apparent reason, but I think they are generally ok...?

 

Porsche 928 - 4.7 or 5.0 V8, looks great, rare, does 160mph +. Dear to run but you could get a nice one under your budget and put a little aside for future bills.

I was very tempted to get a lower end of price range 928 a few years ago, but the price of parts put me off, so I went all sensible and got a TVR instead.

[spursmaddave]

so I went all sensible and got a TVR instead.

 

I was going to agree 100% until that bit

[Ekona]

I think all the cars listed are doable on a £1500 pa service budget, but none are doable if anything major goes wrong. The one exception is the 370Z, as I've not heard of any major failures associated with those yet.

 

All the Pork options mentioned are very good cars, although ironically the cheapest car to run there will be the 996 Turbo as what you'll spend on consumables (brakes being probably the most obvious one that could have a sizeable bill) you'll save in having a relatively bomb-proof engine. Only possible bill there is if the coolant pipes start to go, then you're looking at a bill of roughly £2K - £3K to sort unless you can take the engine out yourself.

 

997.1 non-S cars are a 3.6L engine not a 3.4, and just to confuse matters the 3.4 in the 987.1 Cayman S cars both share the well-known but not actually that common issue of potential IMS (intermediate main shaft) failure and the far more common RMS (rear main seal) failure. Last one causes a bit of oil loss from where gearbox meets engine and is perfectly liveable until the clutch needs doing, first one causes massive engine failure and a £6K - £8K repair bill. It's pretty rare though, less than 5% of all cars at best estimates.

 

I looked at 4200s as well, and if I'm honest you're going to need a huge slush fund to keep one running if you get one with issues, and I wouldn't even consider one if you don't have that. Great cars and far more reliable than people give them credit for, but still not BMW standards.

 

 

 

Putting aside my favouritism for Pork products for one second, I tend to agree with Rich that the 370 isn't enough of a step up from what you have now to give you the smiles you're after. The M3 would seem to be the pretty obvious choice as they're new enough that nothing obvious has particularly surfaced regarding huge costs, and they do have a lovely V8 soundtrack along with genuine pace. Personally I found it a rather dull car despite of this, but there's no denying that it's a true great. Z4M also great fun and a great looker, not convinced that it's the huge step up either though. Jags are nice but waftmobiles rather than sports cars, a trait that will apply equally to the Audi. My own money would go to a 996 Turbo as it'll be monstrously quicker than what you have now, totally different style of car to drive with the weight in the arse, and you'll lose precious little if anything if running it for a couple of years. Running costs will be the same as the M3, so it really then leaves it down to what you prefer.

[Greekman]

I had a 4200gt. Been there done it lost all of my clothes....never again. It's a chick trap with the best sounding exhaust /engine out there, very good looking and the Ferrari derived engine is astonishing. But....

It's only fast on a straight line. Throw it round a corner and you ll find out how heavy and unbalanced it is. Especially the convertible is awful.

Back end is snappier than a croc and not at all forgiving and it will be hard to keep it off a ditch.

Most important it's stupidly expensive to run. A mileage and an annual service. Typical service quote including spark plugs, oils, filters and a check circa £1400. Annual around £300 if all ok.

Clutch lasts around 10-15k no matter what and its a £1400 job and various other things will go wrong. From gearbox mounts to throttle potentiometer. Even tyres have to be good quality and from experience pirelli and bridgestones dont suit it. Michelin were the best but dont expect to pun it on falkens....you ll find out the hard way once a bit damp

Look elsewhere and any where but a 4200gt. If anyone can afford to run one I am sure they can afford a newer granturismo.

Most miles I did on mine where from Hull to the dealership in Leeds.

Last thing it creaks and build quality is obviously of an old Italian car.

[Leeroy]

How about an Exige?

[docwra]

Tried a lot of the cars mentioned on this thread, Id be looking at the M3, 996 Turbo and the Cayman in that order for what you are after. If you want other suggestions look at the XFR and the IS-F, both as good as the M3 IMO and you should really add the C63 to that as well. Im struggling to think of any 2 seaters that fit the bill, maybe SL/SLK AMG mercs ........... or an Evora?

 

The Maser would scare me that its going to break, I didnt like the 997, the Z4, 370 and S5 arent going to be much quicker than the 350, likewise a Monaro, a 928 will be a money pit and Exiges are just too focused. XK-R and CL Mercs are quite soft but fast, CL running costs are high though.

 

If it was me just looking for something to cane, Id go Integrale or possibly a TVR, if I wanted a roadcar I would (will ) buy a 1 series M, if you cant stretch to that an M3 CSL or NSX comes very highly recommended.

[coldel]

Mitsubishi Evo Tommi Makinnen edition? Blows away just about anything in your list.

 

...oh yeah, forgot about the running costs

[docwra]

Mitsubishi Evo Tommi Makinnen edition? Blows away just about anything in your list.

 

...oh yeah, forgot about the running costs

 

Dude, you could run an Evo for 4 years on what a Maserati will cost you for one. My brother has an MR FQ340, it costs him £700 odd a year in servicing and a set of tyres every so often.

[Ekona]

Leggy ISF is a good shout, not quote sure that you can get an Evora for £22K yet though

[coldel]

Service interval I was told for the TM edition was every 4 months which seemed mad...

 

...did test drive one though before I bought the Zed, insurance was x3 more than the Zed and the servicing sounded horrific so I swerved it. Good god they are quick cars. Pretty rare as well.

[rtbiscuit]

Mitsubishi Evo Tommi Makinnen edition? Blows away just about anything in your list.

 

...oh yeah, forgot about the running costs

 

Dude, you could run an Evo for 4 years on what a Maserati will cost you for one. My brother has an MR FQ340, it costs him £700 odd a year in servicing and a set of tyres every so often.

 

its fast but its not that fast either what is it about 300 bhp ? with fettling i'm sure it could be increased to silly speeds

[coldel]

In standard format its well under 5 seconds 0-62 car - handling is terrific as well

[docwra]

My brothers one is a pretty even match for my 370hp 200SX over about 110mph despite weighing more and having 4WD, the 500+ ones are about as fast as anything gets.

 

OK, its 900bhp, but

 

[coldel]

In standard format they are quick, a few remaps and upgrades and they become super quick, terrifyingly quick in fact.

 

...wish I had gone for it now

[Ekona]

Evos are ugly. There, that's the elephant in the room pointed out quite nicely.

 

None of the other cars that the OP was looking at is anything other than beautiful. Even the Audi is nicely proportioned!

[Stew]

Evos are ugly. There, that's the elephant in the room pointed out quite nicely.

 

None of the other cars that the OP was looking at is anything other than beautiful. Even the Audi is nicely proportioned!

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder though.....

 

I agree though, it's a 4 door jap saloon and its not really comparible to others on the list.

[coldel]

For cruising round on the roads I do enjoy a good looking car...

 

For thrashing on the track, who cares what it looks like, you will only be looking at the back of it anyway

[Ekona]

Nice, I'm stealing that one

[spursmaddave]

An EVO is like the ugly girl at a party, you have heard she goes like a steam train but do you really want everyone there knowing you have taken a ride on that particular train

[Dynamic Turtle]

Sorry for the late reply chaps - been locked in business meetings all day, trying to generate the revenue that will hopefully fund a new acquisition :-)

 

I think a lot of the comments here point to why we have all chosen to own a 350/370. It's that balance of virtues. Low cost, reliability, good looks coupled with enough performance to make more expensive alternatives only marginally more tempting. And the cost consideration is important. All of the cars I've mentioned will cost £10-15k more than the sale value of my Zed next year. I think it's right to demand a serious performance upgrade for that kind of outlay (well, it's a lot of money for me anyway). Perhaps we're reaching that plateau already where marginal increases in performance carry geometrically higher costs.

 

RTbiscuit: I agree it would have to be an XK-R to make it really interesting. I've also heard that servcing/parts costs are moderate and reliability is generally pretty good with post 2001 models. I know jag has a bit of a grandad image, but the XKR can be gently boy-racered to make it look less geriatric and some interiors have grey/black trim rather than walnut, which helps. Understood re the 4200GT. Look and sound great but you just know they're *that* cheap for a reason. Would love to have but I think it may be a step too far. I need something reliable.

 

Ekona: Agreed about the 996 Turbo. It could well hold its nominal value pretty well over time. I like the OTT spoilers and graphics - its a "proper" sports car and seriously fast. Problem is, I think i'd only be able to find a very high miler for £22k. I might need £26-28k, which is simply too much, what with the running costs. Do you really think it could comfortably handle 150 mile weekend thrashes and 7,000 miles a year without too much of a hiccup? I'm very well aware of the IMS/RMS issues, having extensively researched the Boxster before buying a Zed. How come the 996T has a different IMS setup? I thought the design was only changed in 2009? Noted re the M3, but it really leaves me cold looks wise and I really have only ever seen total ******* drive them. And it is amazing just how accurate the stereotype is, to the point where it would seriously put me off buying one. You know, having to admit you own an M3 and then getting "those" kind of looks. Sound like a real snob now...

 

Greekman - sage advice and well noted. Again, the Massers just seem so cheap for what they are, but I guess that's for a reason. Thanks for being honest about your ownership experience

 

Other suggestions:

 

M5 - very expensive if something goes wrong. Huge barge of a car.

1M - more expensive than an M5! Seen any going under £35k? No, nor have I...

Monaro - ugly fugger!

Lotus - too impractical

Scooby - ugly, very chavvy

Mercedes - ugly, old fashioned, dad and bro both have one (proper 80's "mercrowave ovens" ). All of them leave me stone cold.

TVR - sound absolutely amazing but just so bloody unreliable and very rough around the edged in terms of cabin quality

NSX - Amazing cars but just not for me. Rare as hens teeth and on the rare occasion something goes wrong, big bills. Lots of knackered examples around too.

 

Interesting to read how lukewarm people are about the 370. Personally the looks don't do it for me (just looks too chubby - like a fat 911), but I thought the extra 50bhp over a DE + revsynch would deliver a meaningful punch? I guess not enough for some. You never know, I might just trade up to an HR, add a few mods to bring power up to the 320-330hp area and be done with it. Save myself £10k in the process.