Forum elections..

[martinmac]

I am happy to step down if someone wants to arrange joint meets on other forums, post tickets, sort the calendar and arrange lakez. The n there is sorting the event insurance etc etc. We all have a large range of responsibilities on here apart from what you see.

 

And if we are making a list. I am not interested in taking part.

[Maccaman]

I do like the idea of an elected Mod but, from what has been implied, that person would just get voted against by the entrenched ones. Now I don't think this would be true for a minute but you start to see some of the problems that could occur. Would we have for instance Sarnie posting about the fact that the social status idea was thrown out to all his backers in the election (not having a go Liam, just using as an example).

Some may not know that someone from before my time (he who must not be named, oh alright Val) wanted the forum just to be about the techinal aspects of the Zed & didnt want the off topic to be part of it. A lot of the current team didn't agree & the afore mentioned took the money and ran (literally). I think it gives a little insight to the fact they are happy for the forum to have a fun social side without going overboard. Perhaps a good idea would be for the ideas that are put to the team via pm are discussed & then put into a thread to allow everybody to see the reasons why they are or not implemented. Any that are in threads usually get answered in that thread.

[docwra]

Apologies, Ive not read the whole thread (14 pages!) but Id ask you guys to consider the following:

 

Im admin on SXOC (200SX Owners Club) which is just over 10 years old and has just over 1000 members paying £20ish a year, we have approximately another 2000 regular users Id guess, so quite a lot bigger than here.

The income from that and trade fees is brilliant, it allows us to puit on pretty big events, weve got loads of club equipment, a van and we are able to do pretty much what we want to, if Im honest Id be suprised if this place grew much more without there being some kind of payment element.

 

By far the most difficult challenge we have is finding good staff. They need to be committed, capable and have the time to put in, be discreet over what they hear and how they express their own opinions, be motivated enough to come up with ideas, have the time to put in when needed and be prepared to do all this for free. Its not such a big task for a board moderator, but when you are organising events, arranging discounts or making sure the trade income is going as it should youd be surprised how much time needs to go in - iots not like you get any thanks for it either.

 

We recently sussed out that the most important trait a staff member has to have is that they will actually do what is asked of them, as if one link breaks down then it always leads to mroe problems. People love the idea of being a trade rep for instance, but then have lost interest within a few weeks, and within a few months the whole thing goes to pieces so theres twice as much for the next guy in to do.

 

So as far as the first post goes, its a nice idea having a totally democratic staff system, but realistically theres probably less than 5% of the users of this board that would makegood staff members. The first question has to be "Will this person do the job" rather than how good they would be at it, or how popular they are (which is the bottom line of any election)

[Ekona]

I think this is all getting a little bit out of hand now. Nothing wrong with the forum nor the club in the slightest and hasn't been for years, and suggesting wholesale changes to how it should be run is doing a huge disservice to the good folks who run this place.

[Neilp]

It's not about changing the team at all. It's about moving forward as a club.

 

What suprises me most is that some members of the team are freely open to criticism and others have point blank refused. Just because this thread exists doesnt mean it will ever happen. It's all talk and discussion.

[docwra]

Kinda what Im getting at Dan, SXOC actually removed the voting in of committee members pretty much for that reason.

[AK350Z]

Perhaps a good idea would be for the ideas that are put to the team via pm are discussed & then put into a thread to allow everybody to see the reasons why they are or not implemented. Any that are in threads usually get answered in that thread.

 

Which is basically what we do now non? The regional organisers could probably do with a refresh now and again, but you don't have to be a REO to sort a meet.

 

I'm fine with the way things are now, but then I would say that wouldn't I?

[Chris`I]

By far the most difficult challenge we have is finding good staff. They need to be committed, capable and have the time to put in, be discreet over what they hear and how they express their own opinions, be motivated enough to come up with ideas, have the time to put in when needed and be prepared to do all this for free. Its not such a big task for a board moderator, but when you are organising events, arranging discounts or making sure the trade income is going as it should youd be surprised how much time needs to go in - iots not like you get any thanks for it either.

 

We recently sussed out that the most important trait a staff member has to have is that they will actually do what is asked of them, as if one link breaks down then it always leads to mroe problems. People love the idea of being a trade rep for instance, but then have lost interest within a few weeks, and within a few months the whole thing goes to pieces so theres twice as much for the next guy in to do.

 

So as far as the first post goes, its a nice idea having a totally democratic staff system, but realistically theres probably less than 5% of the users of this board that would makegood staff members. The first question has to be "Will this person do the job" rather than how good they would be at it, or how popular they are (which is the bottom line of any election)

Good to see someone with some experience backing up what we thought would happen. We decided not to go down that route for the exact reasons you mention. A big no no for me for an elected mod is that they will have access to things that are kept from the general membership for good reasons. Members approach us in confidence to help out with issues and whats to say a new mod wont go blabbing it to all and sundry? I'm sure they wouldnt but with them not being selected by the team we dont know that. And saying "well fire them after they step out of line" - well the damage would already be done.

 

Perhaps a good idea would be for the ideas that are put to the team via pm are discussed & then put into a thread to allow everybody to see the reasons why they are or not implemented. Any that are in threads usually get answered in that thread.

 

Which is basically what we do now non? The regional organisers could probably do with a refresh now and again, but you don't have to be a REO to sort a meet.

Mostly. I will admit that some get brushed under the carpet because we dont want to air publicly why we dont want to take up an idea or someones offer. We do usually PM them in that case.

[docwra]

Yep, its the commitment and discretion that are the big issues, it took us 10 years to weed out the lazy bastards from our staff. The blabbing of sensitive information hasnt ever been a problem, but there are only maybe 10/12 people that have ever had access to the highest level of the board, they have all been carefully selected generally by the existing top level guys.

 

Looking in with a bit of prior experience this place is great - its friendly, theres a huge influx of new members at the moment, good events, plenty of traders and some good banter. The workload of your staff will increase as you get more members and do more events, if you make sure the right people are at the tiller (as seems to be the case now) this wont be a problem and the club will go from strength to strength, but Id add that feedback from the members to the staff is also very important, its easy to become a little disassociated sometimes

[Ricey]

Maybe to comprimise what could be done is rather than the grunts voting people in and out, when a new mod is required the team put a post for people to nominate themselves to be considered.

 

The team still get to review the 'appication' and consider who's best for the job so you can't really say fairer than that.

 

No point nominiating people ourselves as someone you may consider to be a good mod because they may not have the time (I'll be astonished if the next mod position doesn't go to a particular member provided he has the time).

 

Personally id vote out any one who naffed my off so I reckon that's a bad idea!

[Chesterfield]

Having a payment element does not automaticaly make a club popular or successful. There are several examples of clubs that have a paid membership that are effectively ghost towns in terms of active posts. Our concept was to provide a free resource for owners funded by the the revenue received from traders who pay to be here and the merchandise we sell.

 

We have a suggestions area, and as has been said we do review them all. From simple smiley icons to major changes such as the garage addition etc. Some are technically possible, and some are not, without subjecting the server to unnecessary load, which could lead to increased running costs, and certainly a lot of extra admin time in coding.

 

If there are a lot of people who want to provide a lot of help, ideas and suggestions, then I would direct them to the suggestions area of the forum.

 

If you want to know my position on elections for the team running this club, then I would be against them.

 

Private organisations dont hold elections to see who should be made a team leader, thats left for organisations such as councils and governments. It then becomes a farce every time election time comes round with people doing too little too late to try and get the votes, people putting themselves forward because they want the position rather than feeling they may be any good at it.

 

Given how much this club has grown over the years, and how popular it is, then I assume the team have been doing something right and I'd like to see it continue in it's current format.

 

Is there room for improvement? Probably. Th question is how we identify and realise these improvements.

 

The team aren't here to dictate how the forum grows, which events are attended etc, they are here to serve the club in the best interests of the members - without feedback we have to guage what those interests are. Its the reason that the suggestions section exists.

 

In my opinion, annual elections of the team would prove for a major distraction away from what the team should be doing. Any great ideas would be put on hold prior to election time, because whats the point if they are going to be out of a job next week?

Who is going to spend the time each year teaching the new mods how to use the moderator control panel? The ones that are on their way out, or the ones left behind?

[Chesterfield]

Maybe to comprimise what could be done is rather than the grunts voting people in and out, when a new mod is required the team put a post for people to nominate themselves to be considered.

 

The team still get to review the 'appication' and consider who's best for the job so you can't really say fairer than that.

 

No point nominiating people ourselves as someone you may consider to be a good mod because they may not have the time (I'll be astonished if the next mod position doesn't go to a particular member provided he has the time).

 

Personally id vote out any one who naffed my off so I reckon that's a bad idea!

 

This is probably the best compromise posted.

 

It may indeed bring some names to the teams attention that we hadnt considered, but it would also possibly exclude those who we do consider. There are those out there that have been asked if they want to be part of the team, or even new roles like head events organiser etc that have graciously declined the offer as they feel they dont have the time.

 

Its certainly something we could look at. Do people think we need a larger team at the moment? What specific aspects of the club/forum need improvement?

 

If I were to pick an area it would be regional meets and national show attendance. We have some on the team that do a good job at organising attendance at national shows and meets, but sadly they do sometimes find themselves very busy and unable to organise event attendance etc.

[Sarnie]

In my opinion, annual elections of the team would prove for a major distraction away from what the team should be doing. Any great ideas would be put on hold prior to election time, because whats the point if they are going to be out of a job next week?

Who is going to spend the time each year teaching the new mods how to use the moderator control panel? The ones that are on their way out, or the ones left behind?

 

This is where you and all of the other mods seem to have a blind spot. My suggestion was that none of the current mods would need to run for their own position. I suggested just creating ONE position in ADDITION to the other mods not instead of them. Therefore the current mods would be able to carry out their duties as normal.

 

By allowing this you would allow people to feel that not only can they get involved with meets etc but they could also influence the direction the forum is going.

 

To clarify, I too wouldn't want to see paid subscriptions brought in and nor do I want to see the current mods kicked off and load of new ones brought in.

[Chesterfield]

But by having elections for an additional mod, would we not just have someobody "popular" on the team instaed of somoene "capable" ?

 

If anything, Riceys suggestion of having people put their hat in the ring would be a good idea - but I also wouldnt want to see the removal of the teams ability to invite people to join.

 

Very often the best people are those that "do", without being asked to. They may also not put themselves forward for an election as they are unaware of how well respected they are by the members and how much they have done for the club.

[docwra]

But by having elections for an additional mod, would we not just have someobody "popular" on the team instaed of somoene "capable" ?

 

Yep, as stated you really dont want to end up there either.

 

If anything, Riceys suggestion of having people put their hat in the ring would be a good idea - but I also wouldnt want to see the removal of the teams ability to invite people to join.

 

Probably the best way, SXOC use this for area reps and mod positions, Head Mods and Committee are chosen by the Committee themselves as the roles re more important for want of a better word.

 

Very often the best people are those that "do", without being asked to. They may also not put themselves forward for an election as they are unaware of how well respected they are by the members and how much they have done for the club.

 

100%. Like Ive said earlier int he thread, I think you guys have got it pretty much spot on at the moment - it is nioce to be able to pay out £10K in January to secure a racetrack for the years big event in July though, you cant do that without money in the bank

[Chesterfield]

That is true, but you also cant go charging a membership fee without immediately having some benefits available for it and just bringing it in on the promise of jam tomorrow.

 

History has also made us acutely aware that moving from a free forum to a paid membership is a very dangerous move, and could spell the reduction in popularity of our club. Let us not forget how this very club came into the world. It was always to be free for the members, and always cheap to advertise for companies. That way it makes it popular and self sufficient.

 

There are also examples of forums out there that are much, much bigger than our own that are also free for people to be part of.

 

Having a differing level of administration is something that can possibly be looked into again, but this is also going dangerously close to invoking the hierarchy that we sought to avoid too.

[M13KYF]

 

 

 

some of us have work to do aswell as this place, cant dedicate all my time

[Cragus]

but there is a massive imbalance between scottish and english and welsh moderators etc.

 

Just looking at the list there is one Scottish mod, one Welsh mod and 6 English mods....taking into account the spread of The U.K's population it sounds fair to me

Pete

 

I haven't read this whole thread because I am heading out and I haven't got time but all I would like to say is:

 

There are 8 MODS: 6 ENGLISH, 1 SCOTTISH and 1 WELSH

 

and the 2 huge annual club events are held in, oh yeah that's right! SCOTLAND AND WALES

 

YOU MAY TAKE OUR RIGHTFUL POSITIONS AS MODS BUT YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR......GREAT DRIVING ROADS

 

Or as big William himself would of said:

 

I am William Wallace. And I see a whole army of my fellow zedders, here in defiance of censorship! You have come to IBTL as free men. And free men you are! What will you do without freedom to flame other members? Will you fight via PM?†Seven mods against you, the solitary Scotsman?

 

Neilp shouts. „No! We will run – and live!

 

Yes!†Wallace would shout back. Fight and you may get a ban. Bitch on PM and you will perhaps not get a ban, at least for a while. And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance, to come back here as keyboard warriors and tell our mods that they may take our membership but they will never take our superior driving roads!!!!!!!!

[rtbiscuit]

Let us not forget how this very club came into the world. .

 

i thought it was because you got banned from another site so set your own one up?

 

and to be fair you've done a good job

[ATTAK Z]

I haven't read this whole thread ...... they may take our membership but they will never take our superior driving roads!!!!!!!!

 

erm .... yes ... I mean no ... erm yes ... deffo

[Wasso]

Let us not forget how this very club came into the world. .

 

i thought it was because you got banned from another site so set your own one up?

 

and to be fair you've done a good job

 

I heard Chesterfield was a Husky on the 'other' forum!

 

 

I have to say it's really healthy to see this thread has developed how it has. I think like Neil said we need some more voices and suggestions.

 

I agree that what Chesterfield says about paying for forums, it would distract some of the audience and at the end of the day the major events work very well without superior funding.

 

This forum is simple, friendly and resourceful. Not only that but a large number of people are now friends outside of the forum. You can't ask for more than that!

[Chesterfield]

i thought it was because you got banned from another site so set your own one up?

 

Nope, it was because Tracy and myself had just left an mx5 owners club where you had to pay a fee, that we didnt feel we got much value for money from. We looked for and found a 350z club when we swapped the mazda for the zed, only to find it just at the time it was becoming a paying club. Set this one up for myself and a couple of like minded other owners, and the rest is history.

 

Was never banned from another site

[rtbiscuit]

there are swings and roundabouts to every decision.

 

i'm not saying the forum should move to a paid membership, i wouldn't want to see it end up as a clsoed forum like others i know as it kills the traffic (does keep the riff raff out though ) keeping the resources free is a good idea as its the main draw to the club in the first place. but as has been said people would want to see returns, so your suddenly in a situation of having to offer a load of extras and who would organise it?

 

with regards to moderating i always viewed it a bit like the masons; you got invited to join if you were seen to offer benefits to the group. you don't vote for who's in charge, and you get to learn a special handshake at wales meets

[Neilp]

there are swings and roundabouts to every decision.

 

i'm not saying the forum should move to a paid membership, i wouldn't want to see it end up as a clsoed forum like others i know as it kills the traffic (does keep the riff raff out though ) keeping the resources free is a good idea as its the main draw to the club in the first place. but as has been said people would want to see returns, so your suddenly in a situation of having to offer a load of extras and who would organise it?

 

with regards to moderating i always viewed it a bit like the masons; you got invited to join if you were seen to offer benefits to the group. you don't vote for who's in charge, and you get to learn a special handshake at wales meets

Not true about the masons

[Chesterfield]

with regards to moderating i always viewed it a bit like the masons; you got invited to join if you were seen to offer benefits to the group.

 

Close.

 

People get invited if the team as a whole think that as part of said team, that individual can help the whole club, not just the team.