spursmaddave Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Dunno what the panic is to be blunt .. my 350Z was bought from new and is now upto the low 60k and have only ever put standard petrol in. Been serviced at regular intervals and no problems what-so-ever. You might want to do some more research into that one matey... http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=58599 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 1. If it didn't make a difference, why would the manufacturer indicate which grade of fuel you must use for your engine? 2. It does make a difference - vast amounts of information available as to why and how. 3. I feel sorry for anyone who buys your car if you choose to sell in the future as that is going to be one serious dud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 1. If it didn't make a difference, why would the manufacturer indicate which grade of fuel you must use for your engine? 2. It does make a difference - vast amounts of information available as to why and how. 3. I feel sorry for anyone who buys your car if you choose to sell in the future as that is going to be one serious dud. +lots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Oh dear.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSet Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Its obviously worrying you, and is gonna take a while to use the petrol you have, so why not just put some octane booster in and be done with it? Then you don't have the worry of syphoning etc..... I was thinking that... but peeps are saying not to bother... If the Octane booster will WORK... I'd prefer to spend the cash and get it in the tank. Gonna be £44 mind! As it is a £22 bottle for each 50L ... but I'd prefer to pay the money IF they work; and have peace of mind, as Mcgoo suggested. A 2.5 L bottle of Toluene (Ron 111) will set you back around £8. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I brought some CVS turbo octane booster recently. Gonna try and mix it with Vpower, see what happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyg Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Of course, yeah my 60K 350Z has just come back from a service and it is completly nailed ... runs like a dog and is a total wreck No, it is fine strangely enough and still going as good as ever. Thanks for the lovely little insult calling me car a dud too! Nice To be blunt I would be more worried about a car that had been thrashed and pushed real hard than as to where your using a high vs low octane fuel. There are numerous discussions around the topic and yes using a high octane gives better performance, and is better for the engine .. definately agree no argument from me there. But the point I am making is that unless you are really pushing it then the only really consequence may be that certain engine components wear out quicker, but I've not seen any conclusive proof of that. Even if this is happening still need to offset the extra price you pay for the premium petrol and see how much extra that adds to your bills and if it justifies the price. The engine mangement itself will do a certain amount of adjustment to compensate for the petrol, and as say since i don't push the 350Z I ain't worried .. if I were to take it on a track day (again) then I have and would put the top grade fuel in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 i think you forum peeps need to chill the hell out on this debate. The chances of major detenation by using 95 fuel on an N/A zed is very minimal. I would say it would be more of a concern on a JDM car. You're acting like you've pi**ed in the petrol tank by mistake! It's not gonna kill your engine, you will get more knock no doubt but just fill up with high-octane again when you can! simple as! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 A 2.5 L bottle of Toluene (Ron 111) will set you back around £8. Pete oohhh... where from Pete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetsurfer2 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Wizard, Have to disagree with you. I've had to replace my engine because of this issue. Speaking to Mark@Abbey, there are more cases of this than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Wizard, Have to disagree with you. I've had to replace my engine because of this issue. Speaking to Mark@Abbey, there are more cases of this than you think. Fair dues buddy... I've been around Europe using whatever fuel I could get my hands on and I had no issues at all when I was N/A. How did Abbey come to the conclusion that it was poor quality fuel that was the cause? Did you have a JDM or a UK car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 i think you forum peeps need to chill the hell out on this debate. The chances of major detenation by using 95 fuel on an N/A zed is very minimal. I would say it would be more of a concern on a JDM car. You're acting like you've pi**ed in the petrol tank by mistake! It's not gonna kill your engine, you will get more knock no doubt but just fill up with high-octane again when you can! simple as! Totally agree and I have filled up with the odd tank of 95 fuel and the car hasn't spontaneously combusted, but someone saying that you can run everyday on it with no effects is mad as a box of frogs Wizard, Have to disagree with you. I've had to replace my engine because of this issue. Speaking to Mark@Abbey, there are more cases of this than you think. Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Drinking a bottle of wine all by yourself one evening = get drunk, knock about a bit, but as soon as you dilute it with a bit of water and keep drinking mostly non-alcoholic drinks after, you'll be fine with no lasting effects. Drinking a bottle of wine for breakfast, lunch and dinner every single day = your internals will give up and unfortunately Cosworth don't sell forged livers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetsurfer2 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Wizard, mine was a 2006 UK REVUP. Abbey have had a few cars that have definitely run on RON 95 and have significant piston damage. Mark figured out there is no knock protection over 4600RPM on a standard map during his UPREV work. If you haven't run your engine hard over 46000RPM with RON 95, you're unlikely to see a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Yes you can run 95RON all day long and be happy, you just cant rev over ~4kRPM. This has been shown on a dyno and knock sensor that knock will occur on 95RON somewhere around 5kRPM+. So if you run a Zed as a daily driver and dont drive it hard (like I used to commute and not really go above 4.5kRPM) then your engine will be fine. If you've driven it a lot with 95RON and gone over 5kRPM regularly then you WILL be damaging your engine. Only a small amount each time but we have seen engines needing replacing when it happens. For those that run 95RON and say all is well - how exactly do you know this? "Passing" a service is not an indication of how good a condition your car is in. I've had things wrong with my cars in the past and they've "flown" through a service regardless. Nissan et all check feck all to do with how well the engine is working in a service. They swap the fluids and other consumables and thats about it. Places like Abbey that tear down engines have seen the damage it causes. Hell if you see the damaged piston in Grahams photo and just dont beleive it, more fool you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Getting back to my problem guys.... Please? Anyone know where I can get hold of Toluene (Ron 111) ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just leave the car running in a lockup for a few days. You could have drained it all away by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 If you've driven it a lot with 95RON and gone over 5kRPM regularly then you WILL be damaging your engine. Only a small amount each time but we have seen engines needing replacing when it happens. I know you know the cars and this site well, but do you actually understand where and why the damage occurs? Any damage caused will be through predetonation, and will be be to pistons/big end shells generally and if that happened every time you filled up with 95RON and went over 5K then you wouldnt see the bottom of the first tank, you probably wouldnt get 5 miles down the road. The bottom line of it is that det is more likely to occur when using 95RON as the car is mapped to use a higher octane, notice "more likely" rather than "WILL". Id agree that you are foolish not to put Super in as thats whats recommended, but telling people that engine damage will definitely occur isnt correct. Ask Mark from Abbey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 If you've driven it a lot with 95RON and gone over 5kRPM regularly then you WILL be damaging your engine. Only a small amount each time but we have seen engines needing replacing when it happens. I know you know the cars and this site well, but do you actually understand where and why the damage occurs? Any damage caused will be through predetonation, and will be be to pistons/big end shells generally and if that happened every time you filled up with 95RON and went over 5K then you wouldnt see the bottom of the first tank, you probably wouldnt get 5 miles down the road. The bottom line of it is that det is more likely to occur when using 95RON as the car is mapped to use a higher octane, notice "more likely" rather than "WILL". Id agree that you are foolish not to put Super in as thats whats recommended, but telling people that engine damage will definitely occur isnt correct. Ask Mark from Abbey. OK so it wont happen every time, but given the fact that people cant comprehend that even putting some 95RON in is a very bad idea, I dont think they are going to sit around and read when and where it might or might not happen. Its easier just to get people to use Super as the manual dictates and not run over ~4.5kRPM when using 95RON when you cant get Super. At the end of the day its up to the owner to do what they want, but people coming on saying "hey run 95RON its fine, nothing will happen to your car" is far worse than telling people it will damage their car when infact it might not happen very often. It obviously happens enough if cars are now starting to die from it Also when you say predetonation - are you talking about detonation (ie knock) or pre-ignition? Two very seperate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Getting back to my problem guys.... Please? Anyone know where I can get hold of Toluene (Ron 111) ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I know exactly where you are coming from and the advice is spot on, Im not arguing that at all - its just people like slimjim will take that on board and start siphoning tanks and buying toluene when they dont have to. I have a heavily modified turbo car that was live mapped on 97 RON, Id still put 95 RON in it if I had to, I just wouldnt push it quite as hard and turbos are 10 times more susceptible to det than NA is. I know, Ive been through enough engines Predetonation/knock/pinking/pinging, a thorn by any other name ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Getting back to my problem guys.... Please? Anyone know where I can get hold of Toluene (Ron 111) ???? So you think that just because you started the thread and asked a genuine question, that gives you the right to disturb the totally irrelevant and completely pointless tangent at which we have all gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Getting back to my problem guys.... Please? Anyone know where I can get hold of Toluene (Ron 111) ???? If you are really that worried (which I dont think you need to be at all) then Id consider buying some race fuel and putting that in instead, Toluene isnt entirely legal to pour straight into your fuel tank (nop duty ) so isnt that straightforward to get hold of - race fule is a lot more straightforward. If you want to siphon a tank then pull the fuel hose off the engine and do it from that end instead would be my advice EDIT: Actually, ignore my advice, its obviously pointless as Sasha says. Let just stick with the findings of Karl Benz, his car worked pretty good and stuff. Who comes on here to find stuff out anyway, everyone knows engines run on magic pixie dust and fairy glitter, whats the point in getting technical about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Tried Google? I think we are all in agreement that you should just leave the 95RON as it is and just take it easy until the tank is gone if you want to be 100% sure of doing no damage. Chances are you wont do any anyway, but that risk is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Getting back to my problem guys.... Please? Anyone know where I can get hold of Toluene (Ron 111) ???? If you are really that worried (which I dont think you need to be at all) then Id consider buying some race fuel and putting that in instead, Toluene isnt entirely legal to pour straight into your fuel tank (nop duty ) so isnt that straightforward to get hold of - race fule is a lot more straightforward. If you want to siphon a tank then pull the fuel hose off the engine and do it from that end instead would be my advice EDIT: Actually, ignore my advice, its obviously pointless as Sasha says. Let just stick with the findings of Karl Benz, his car worked pretty good and stuff. Who comes on here to find stuff out anyway, everyone knows engines run on magic pixie dust and fairy glitter, whats the point in getting technical about anything. I never said that the moment a drop of 95 hits your petrol tank the entire car will begin shaking violently before exploding into a blue haze and collapsing to a small pile of ash. My comments referred to continuous use of lower grade petrol for a period of a number of years over which the engine is much more likely to have sustained damage than if the same engine was run predominantly on the premium stuff. I'm not pretending to be some kind of a tech expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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