Right to die, locked in syndrome etc

[Ekona]

With regards to the news story today

 

I have no particular connection to any of the matters involved in this at all: I don't know anyone who has the condition or something similar, and I've never been close to anyone who has had to go through this or even turn off a life support machine. So why do I feel so incredibly strongly that in a civilised society, and one which is capable of passing the most intricate of taxation laws, that the government should be perfectly capable of sorting the law out to allow a person the right to choose to end their life humanely?

 

I've already said to Jo that if I ever end up like that, or a vegetative state or in any state that means I cannot live a decent life, I want the plug pulled ASAP. I could not imagine living like that, and nor would I ever want to. I respect the rights of others to choose if they want to carry on like that, but it's not for me. I can see no dignity in that at all. All this rubbish from the Justice Department that they can't change the laws as it'll effect other laws too much (namely for murder) is utter horsesh*t of the highest degree. We pay the finest legal minds in the country a fortune to write laws for us that have no loopholes, so surely they would be capable of this?

 

 

Bit of a deep one for a Monday, but I'm interested to see how others feels about this.

[Lexx]

Fair amount of controversy here guys, so please think before you post.

 

I'll be watching this one closely so behave yourselves like the adults I know you all are.

[Chris`I]

Personally I agree with you Dan. If someone is of sound mind and wants to die with dignity then there should be no problem to it at all, and personally I'd want the same if I were like that (and Amanda knows that too).

 

Guess when it gets harder is proving that you are of sound mind and also when people are in the grey area between how you should decide who does and doesnt get what they want.

 

Dont they currently turn a blind eye to people going out of the country to do it anyway?

[spursmaddave]

Fair amount of controversy here guys, so please think before you post.

 

I'll be watching this one closely so behave yourselves like the adults I know you all are.

 

Using the word 'vegetable' as a description in the first post is ok then I guess

[Lexx]

Fair amount of controversy here guys, so please think before you post.

 

I'll be watching this one closely so behave yourselves like the adults I know you all are.

 

Using the word 'vegetable' as a description in the first post is ok then I guess

 

If he adequately described to his partner what his definition of a vegetable is then I see no reason to change that.

[Chris`I]

Fair amount of controversy here guys, so please think before you post.

 

I'll be watching this one closely so behave yourselves like the adults I know you all are.

 

Using the word 'vegetable' as a description in the first post is ok then I guess

 

If he adequately described to his partner what his definition of a vegetable is then I see no reason to change that.

Edited to give correct name just to stop the usual trolls/overly PC members complaining

[spursmaddave]

Fair amount of controversy here guys, so please think before you post.

 

I'll be watching this one closely so behave yourselves like the adults I know you all are.

 

Using the word 'vegetable' as a description in the first post is ok then I guess

 

If he adequately described to his partner what his definition of a vegetable is then I see no reason to change that.

Edited to give correct name just to stop the usual trolls/overly PC members complaining

 

Thanks Chris, and if by having a mentally handicapped relative makes me OVERLY PC by complaining about that word then you can all **** off

[Ekona]

Dont they currently turn a blind eye to people going out of the country to do it anyway?

Interesting, I can't quite remember how the last case ended. I remember there was one a couple of years ago about the woman who wanted to go to Dignitas in Switzerland but didn't want her husband convicted of murder upon his return, but didn't she die before the appeal of the appeal of the appeal went ahead? Can't quite recall the details.

 

if by having a mentally handicapped relative makes me OVERLY PC by complaining about that word then you can all **** off

See, this is what I'm kinda getting at. Normally I couldn't care less about what happens to others, just as long as it's not happening to me directly. It's not an attitude that itself is very PC to have, I know, and it does me no favours sometimes but that's just me. However, in the same way that Dave clearly feels strongly about issues related to people who have some kind of mental handicap, it's the same with me and that's very unusual. I'd happily write letters and do the usual protesting malarkey over someone's right to choose their own fate, despite that going completely against what I would normally do.

[M13KYF]

all for having the choice to be able to die if your in a condition that there is no turning back from.

[spursmaddave]

all for having the choice to be able to die if your in a condition that there is no turning back from.

 

Yeah I agree but then there is the whole assisted suicide debate, is it ok to help someone with there 'choice' that's where it becomes really messy legally...

 

I think things will change I am sure, why if we can fight for people's right to live, can we not fight for people's right to die.

[docwra]

all for having the choice to be able to die if your in a condition that there is no turning back from.

 

Thats the same argument as capital punishment though, how do you ever know 100%?

 

As with most things, theres a line that has to be drawn and thats whats preventing a law being passed. I totally agree with yer man being allowed to die, but what about someone whos illness isnt as advanced, or someone who has only just contracted it? What illnesses do you allow euthanasia for, which ones "arent so bad"?

[M13KYF]

all for having the choice to be able to die if your in a condition that there is no turning back from.

 

Thats the same argument as capital punishment though, how do you ever know 100%?

 

As with most things, theres a line that has to be drawn and thats whats preventing a law being passed. I totally agree with yer man being allowed to die, but what about someone whos illness isnt as advanced, or someone who has only just contracted it? What illnesses do you allow euthanasia for, which ones "arent so bad"?

 

 

not the same, the person who is terminally ill should have the choice to terminate themselves rather than it being a long painful, drawn out, slow death in many cases. Capital punishment is decided by a judge, not the person who is terminally ill.

 

I would of thought its a case od drawing up specific diseases/cases, maybe a point system, to quailify for self euthinasia

[Chris`I]

Dont see why you should have to qualify at all. If you are of sound mind and want to go, thats up to you.

 

Having watched my Dad essentially starve himself to death to achieve the same thing (even though he was on painkillers so apparently felt no pain) when he had terminal cancer, its shocking that you arent allowed to make a decision on your own life. I wouldnt wish it on anyone but if you dont want to be here any more, I dont see why anyone should stop you.

[Iwantone]

Dont see why you should have to qualify at all. If you are of sound mind and want to go, thats up to you.

 

Having watched my Dad essentially starve himself to death to achieve the same thing (even though he was on painkillers so apparently felt no pain) when he had terminal cancer, its shocking that you arent allowed to make a decision on your own life. I wouldnt wish it on anyone but if you dont want to be here any more, I dont see why anyone should stop you.

 

You would not do this to your dog, but you have to watch your parents suffer.

 

From the report I listened to this morning, it seems that the guy is so paralised that there is no point in him even going to Switzerland. Even there, you have to be able to take the fatal substance which is offered to you.

 

Steve

[EH 370z]

Prochoice for me!

If we can agree to terminate a foetus, then as a responsible adult, I would reserve the right to terminate myself!

You should just carry a card, like a donor card with your wishes on it - Seems simple enough to me, you never know your old bits & bobs my help save anothers life

[Ricey]

I guess its all about how do you legally determine that someone is not depressed about the situation rather than making an informed decision about ending their life.

 

You wouldn't let every depressive take their own life (in fact isn't it even against the law to try and top yourself?) - there again who wouldn't be depressed at being in that sort of situation.

[Zugara]

If he were an animal.........why should people have to suffer indignity because of a minority of do gooders.

 

This always make me mad, that a person must go the human rights court in order to end their suffering.

 

WHY.........

 

Surely it must be HIS human right to want to end his own life and not have anyone else implicated, what is bloody wrong with this stupid stupid stupid country.

 

Bloody nanny state we live in here.....

[rtbiscuit]

i think it has to be remembered that alot of these laws are also there to protect the weak, when you make this move across a certain line in the sand it starts to open doors to other things like assisted suicides etc.

 

there are people that want to end it becuase they feel like a burden on their family, they might actually want to live, there are others who's familys might see the financial advantage of "removing" a family member, even though they are wanting to live on.

 

others have been known to think one way when healthy, but when they find themselves in that situation they might feel different.

 

personally i can;t say i support suicide or abortion, i can see its place in society, but morally i don't think its right.

 

as with regards to myself, i do agree with ekonas original post where if i was left in a vegative state that i would be happy for the machine to be switched off. or to have a do not resusitate sign above the bed.

 

i think at the moment the fact that these issues have to be taken to courts of appeals etc is a good thing, it might be long winded but it makes sure the person going through this is serious about it and that the process doesn't become like a production line.

 

at the end of the day all life is precious

[gort]

Don't suppose any of you have seen this movie.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083326/reviews

 

it deals with exact same issues, I watched it back in the 80's, and I've never forgotten it.

[JetSet]

in fact isn't it even against the law to try and top yourself

 

 

Not in The U.K, but in certain parts of the world do have laws against it.

 

 

Pete

[gangzoom]

You can choose to refuse medical therapy, even if means you will die (provided your of sound mind), and patients regularly leave hospital with palliative care (drugs to control pain) so that they can die at home with their family and not in hospital.

 

Assisted suicide however is a completely different matter, and as some one who works in the health care sector it’s something I will never have anything to do with (be it legal or not). Since the first thing all student doctors/nurses are taught is "do no harm". You will be amazed at how families/relatives will start squabbling over money/property when some one is dying (most of the time even before their relatives have passed away), I cannot imagine for one second you could legislate a law for "assisted suicide" where you could be sure 100% the other party involved absolutely had nothing to gain.

 

It's very easy for people to say they will do X or Y when they are in a certain condition, but until your actually faced with your own death it’s all meaningless. Even though in my job I have to face death on a regular basis I still have absolutely no idea how I would deal with death if I was faced with it my self.

 

As some one has already said these are very sensitive issues, and people (rightly so) get very emotional....Though just the thought of BUPA opening up a private "assisted suicide" clinic is enough to make me cringe ...However having a better palliative care network is definatly needed, even the best cancer hospices are run via charity funding.

[Stew]

I've taken the decision to allow all my organs etc to be used if I'm unlucky enough to be in that position. I am happy for my body to be butchered so others have a chance at life. I have made that concious decision.

 

I am not allowed to make the decision that if I'm in a serious state that I can't end my suffering. I really don't understand it.

 

 

I'm pro choice, it's a shame I can't write it into my will along with my other wishes. Turn me off if need be and give all my stuff to my wife. I'm no legal boffin but surely it can't be that difficult to do can it?

[docwra]

all for having the choice to be able to die if your in a condition that there is no turning back from.

 

Thats the same argument as capital punishment though, how do you ever know 100%?

 

As with most things, theres a line that has to be drawn and thats whats preventing a law being passed. I totally agree with yer man being allowed to die, but what about someone whos illness isnt as advanced, or someone who has only just contracted it? What illnesses do you allow euthanasia for, which ones "arent so bad"?

 

 

not the same, the person who is terminally ill should have the choice to terminate themselves rather than it being a long painful, drawn out, slow death in many cases. Capital punishment is decided by a judge, not the person who is terminally ill.

 

I would of thought its a case od drawing up specific diseases/cases, maybe a point system, to quailify for self euthinasia

 

You are totally, totally missing the issue here. Its not whether someone should be given the right to choose to die, it whether the person that helps them is committing a crime. Suicide isnt illegal, assisted suicide is.

 

If you introduce any law allowing it then its open to abuse when I want to knock off my Mum to get at my inheritance, for instance.

[Ekona]

It wouldn't be any different in principle than the law currently is with regards to getting people considered to be mentally incompetent and being able to take control of their funds. You'd still need doctors to rule on the state of someone's mind (and I'm no expert, but I'd have thought it easier to prove someone sane than otherwise), and a court to rule in judgement one way or another.

[docwra]

It wouldn't be any different in principle than the law currently is with regards to getting people considered to be mentally incompetent and being able to take control of their funds. You'd still need doctors to rule on the state of someone's mind (and I'm no expert, but I'd have thought it easier to prove someone sane than otherwise), and a court to rule in judgement one way or another.

 

But sanity can be regained and you can recover - I may be wrong but I believe the individual can then take control of their moneys again once they are back in the room. Its also damn difficult to get sorted, my Grandad went lala last year and they wouldnt even give his wife of 60 years power of attorney over his accounts. Theres also room for appeal if the wrong decision is made.

 

AFAIK no-one has recovered from death as yet