Dissapointing dyno day

[Dynamic Turtle]

My 2c:

 

1) I'm glad Nissan delivered 98% of the engine's potential in it's original format, rather than forcing owners to spend hundreds or thousands on upgrades to maximise performance.

 

2) The other 2% (in the form of re-mapping for DE owners?) appears to come at relatively small cost (£200?)

 

3) exhaust tuning is horses for courses. Happy with the note from my standard box. Not sure I could justify £600 (or whatever) for a slightly lower octave.

 

DT

 

EDIT: Forgot to add that I'm surprised that the 350z has such a large mod scene, in light of the tiny bhp gains available (in the absence of a very large budget).

[Neilp]

My 2c:

 

1) I'm glad Nissan delivered 98% of the engine's potential in it's original format, rather than forcing owners to spend hundreds or thousands on upgrades to maximise performance.

 

2) The other 2% (in the form of re-mapping for DE owners?) appears to come at relatively small cost (£200?)

 

3) exhaust tuning is horses for courses. Happy with the note from my standard box. Not sure I could justify £600 (or whatever) for a slightly lower octave.

 

DT

 

EDIT: Forgot to add that I'm surprised that the 350z has such a large mod scene, in light of the tiny bhp gains available (in the absence of a very large budget).

where can you get uprev mapping for 200, maybe once you spend the original 480 ish then retune will be just dyno time.

[Dynamic Turtle]

I stand corrected! Thought it was cheaper than that.

 

Eeek - even uprevving is pricey...

[spursmaddave]

I stand corrected! Thought it was cheaper than that.

 

Eeek - even uprevving is pricey...

 

But worth it

[Wasso]

Nicely put Dave, the XYZ and decats with race cat makes a difference, and the MREV matched with plenum spacer also provides gains.

[Adam rs]

I have not posted my results or opinions to have a 'moan'.Im not chasing figures and just want the best for my car.

 

I could have come on here and said my cars been transformed and goes like a rocket,but the truth is its a bit louder and thats about it.Im no mug and have a good knowledge about cars and mechanics.

 

However when buying quality products at considerable cost i expect them to perform or give results somewhat in line with what the manufacturers and retailers claim.

 

I have put my results on as a genuine honest representation of what ive found and hope it will be of benefit to forum users in the future.

 

In conclusion i think the pulleys are of no benefit,a cheap exhaust would be as good(but should only be fitted if the standard ones rotten),the sport cats are of minimal gain and if you're set on an uprev you might as well fit the plenum spacer.

 

The uprev is worthwhile and will increase fuel economy but it will take alot of miles to re-coup the savings at the pumps.

 

I hope this doesnt come accross as me being p*ssed off or angry as im not.But if people are going to make comments without the facts to back it up then its best not to lead people in the wrong direction.

 

We join these forums to share knowledge and help like minded individuals make informed decisions.

[Will370z]

I think your feedback is very informative and useful for many of the people that enquire as to the best mods for a zed.

 

As mentioned unless you are going to spend alot on sc'ing, tweaking the zed will not gain that much in comparison to other cars and i think this post will be useful in communicating that.

 

My perspective on the matter is alittle different as ive just had the berks and milltek removed from the car and had it reflashed bacck to stock. Ive noticed a difference in the torque and the response of the car. Before in any gear it would just want to pull, now its just not so instant.

 

But the big thing for me is the total lack of noise. Really miss it.

[Dblock]

You will see in time how many people say how much bhp can I get from my car.What do you mean I cant get 400bhp on n/a and just a remap. So will this £50 remap give me more power than a porshce? I know you didnt say that but a hell of a lot of people do.

 

I dont agree that pulleys are of no use because they make the engine more resposive. going 1k to 6.6k wont do much but if your at 1k the engine will spin a littl e more easily not massively but it will.

 

Lol about manufacturers though no offense but to trust them you must have been born yesterday. They test what and how they want to and only tell you part of the story. E.g. plenum spacers gain up to 14bhp. so people think that makes a car with 276bhp have 290bhp but it doesnt. Many reasons, was the testing done on the same car and same tempreture? Or they tell only part of the story like UP TO 14bhp. No one gains 14bhp but 5-10bhp is possible in the mid range. up to it hardly helps at all.

 

I dont mod to add power as such but the exhaust is for noise and so on but to get the best out of the car. It is a very expensive hobby for little reward hence why people say its cheaper just to charge it.

 

I know you wasnt having a moan and are just disapointed with your results. You have put in alot of time, effort and money for such little reward I get that but thats the way it is and people have spent the same if not more for similar results.

 

I have not posted my results or opinions to have a 'moan'.Im not chasing figures and just want the best for my car.

 

I could have come on here and said my cars been transformed and goes like a rocket,but the truth is its a bit louder and thats about it.Im no mug and have a good knowledge about cars and mechanics.

 

However when buying quality products at considerable cost i expect them to perform or give results somewhat in line with what the manufacturers and retailers claim.

 

I have put my results on as a genuine honest representation of what ive found and hope it will be of benefit to forum users in the future.

 

In conclusion i think the pulleys are of no benefit,a cheap exhaust would be as good(but should only be fitted if the standard ones rotten),the sport cats are of minimal gain and if you're set on an uprev you might as well fit the plenum spacer.

 

The uprev is worthwhile and will increase fuel economy but it will take alot of miles to re-coup the savings at the pumps.

 

I hope this doesnt come accross as me being p*ssed off or angry as im not.But if people are going to make comments without the facts to back it up then its best not to lead people in the wrong direction.

 

We join these forums to share knowledge and help like minded individuals make informed decisions.

[Ekona]

EDIT: Forgot to add that I'm surprised that the 350z has such a large mod scene, in light of the tiny bhp gains available (in the absence of a very large budget).

Sadly people always chase that last bhp regardless of cost, despite the fact that just losing a kilo or two of bodyweight would actually give them the same benefit. Actually more of a benefit, as you'd increase your power-to-weight ratio as well make for less mass which in turn improves both the handling and the brakes. It's human nature to want big numbers rather than small ones, but I'll always have more respect for someone like djtimo who has ripped the guts out of his than I do for someone who just bolts another large turbo to their car. Each to their own though, I was the same when I was younger!

[Dblock]

EDIT: Forgot to add that I'm surprised that the 350z has such a large mod scene, in light of the tiny bhp gains available (in the absence of a very large budget).

Sadly people always chase that last bhp regardless of cost, despite the fact that just losing a kilo or two of bodyweight would actually give them the same benefit. Actually more of a benefit, as you'd increase your power-to-weight ratio as well make for less mass which in turn improves both the handling and the brakes. It's human nature to want big numbers rather than small ones, but I'll always have more respect for someone like djtimo who has ripped the guts out of his than I do for someone who just bolts another large turbo to their car. Each to their own though, I was the same when I was younger!

 

but then you make the 350 useless. The 350 is a cruiser. Its comfy and kitted out well. Once you start stripping it (unless you are hardcore) you make the car less useable. Quite a few people strip their 1*2's and then sell them as its not a nice place to be. If you want something lightweight in the first place another car like a s2000, elise or vx220 is probably a better base to start with. A car cant be everything at once IMO and if it tries it usually fails.

[Tricky-Ricky]

Personally i would rather have more torque than BHP, thats what will make to most difference in real day to day driving.

[JetSet]

On my Renault 5 GT Turbo I got around 25bhp (20% power increase) just by poking a hole in 1 pipe. Now THATS what I call cheap power!

 

 

Had my RS Turbo chipped for £300, power increased from 130 bhp to 195 bhp. Collins Engineering who supplied and fitted the parts said they had a 225 bhp kit but that was pretty expensive as it included suspension and brake upgrades.

 

 

Pete

 

I got from 120bhp (stock) to 150bhp for about 10quid. That included buying a drill bit to drill the carb jets out to a bigger side to increase the fueling. To get from 150bhp to an approx 225bhp cost me £650 for hybrid turbo, £600 to have the head, carb, manifolds all gasflowed and ported out (17.5% more flow) and £600 for new uprated group N clutch.

 

The Escort must have had a pretty strong engine as 225 was possible using the standard Turbo and engine internals. The main problem was that the drive shafts couldn't handle the power, and it torque steered like mad under hard acceleration. Not bad though, I had the car from new, had it chipped at 13k and sold it with 116k on the clock, still on the original turbo and exhaust

 

 

Pete

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

My 2 pence worth,

 

you wont measure any gain's from the lighten pulley fitment like wise when fitting a single piece flywheel you wont see a gain on the dyno on a straight pullbut the car will feel more responsive on the road , you can measure these on a inertia dyno but the gians shown would be so small.

 

Did Paul give oyu a dyno plot of the finished run 1st time laid over the finish run after this work?

 

The HFC,s still restrict the cars top end but always allow the cars to produce more mid range grunt , the Miltek exhaust will not show a huge amount of gain as the major restriction is the Cats weather they are stock HFC,s , if your running de-cats yes then the stock exhaust will restrict the car car.

 

I always say the best £ per BHP gain on a DE is the Y pipe/plenum spacer and Uprev , this always gives good returns and the car feels so much better with the throttle restiction removed; If you would of had the whole lot done in one go it would of looked a real good gain the car would of driven totaly different from a stock car.

 

Running cars on different days will always make a difference and with a roller based dyno repeated runs heats everything up so causing a diffrence in results;

 

Comparing turbo remaps the N/A re-maps isnt worth even talking about , a remap on a F/I car you turn the boost up the car will always show and feel far faster than a N/A car.

[spursmaddave]

My 2 pence worth

 

I think we all know your opinion is worth a bit more than 2p :wink:

[Chris`I]

My 2 pence worth

 

I think we all know your opinion is worth a bit more than 2p :wink:

This is true. Anyone wanting to see mega NA tuning should also look up Adam@Z1Auto's car. Headline figures arent massive for the amount he spent (320WHP IIRC) but he had eveything lightened and balanced. On a track it would be a beast and massive fun compared to an FI'd Zed.

 

NA cars will always have limited tunability. In FI cars, turning up the boost is effectively increasing the relative displacement of the car. The only way to get that NA is to get a stroker kit or similar to increase displacement.

 

Does my nutt in when peope say "but for £200 my old Evo/Scooby/other FI car I got 100HP extra, why cant I do that on a Zed", and yet claim to know how car mechanics, turbos, SC, etc work (not aimed at the OP BTW)

 

Trust me you wont notice the small difference you gain so much, but as Will says, once they are gone again and you are back to stock, you sure as hell notice

[docwra]

Have you got before and after graphs? Its not the top number that matters, its whats under the graphs - the more youve got, the quicker the car is.

 

Would be nice to have a Z32 style +100hp available for £300 odd mind you.

[Tricky-Ricky]

It seems everybody is hung up on dyno BHP figures? i always aim for torque increase, thats the one you will notice most, remember torque is responsible for how quick you can accelerate, BHP is how fast your going nearer the limits, a nice fat torque curve is far more rewarding than lots of top end BHP

[Wasso]

It seems everybody is hung up on dyno BHP figures? i always aim for torque increase, thats the one you will notice most, remember torque is responsible for how quick you can accelerate, BHP is how fast your going nearer the limits, a nice fat torque curve is far more rewarding than lots of top end BHP

 

agreed

[Adam rs]

I agree about the torque being important and that was my aim with the HFC's.

Thats what dissapointed me.No gains torque wise.

The bhp gain was within what i expected and paul did say that my different wheels and tyres fitted after the first uprev last year would have an effect on the figures.

But then again it was a much colder day so that should have been in the cars favour.

He noticed that the pirellis were getting very sticky,so much in fact that i could hear them sticking to the ramps on the way off the dyno.

There will always be variables.

I will try to take a photo of all 4 graphs and post them up so people can have a more in depth look if they want.

[Tricky-Ricky]

You have to remember that dyno calculations are just an educated guess so to speak, and like you say there are so many variables involved, the only real way is an engine dyno,

one thing i am not sure about with what your saying about you result is that BHP is a direct calculation from the torque figure so in theory you can't have more of one without the other.

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

You have to remember that dyno calculations are just an educated guess so to speak, and like you say there are so many variables involved, the only real way is an engine dyno,

one thing i am not sure about with what your saying about you result is that BHP is a direct calculation from the torque figure so in theory you can't have more of one without the other.

 

 

Dis-agree with this but I may be biased as I have a hub based dyno , if you don't use the conversion figure to estimate flywheel bhp it is a very good tool. Just look at the wheel/hub figures and you wont be far wrong.

[Tricky-Ricky]

LOL! thought you would say that Mark, i am not implying that in the right hands a hub or wheel dyno is not a very useful tool, but you have to admit that there are many variables to contend with, like ambient temps (especially FI)

and although with experienced operators like yourself, its less likely to be far out, there is still the drive train, which has to be an educated guess as to the losses, is it actually possible to work out just how much a gearbox with wear or non std oil, or CV joints on drive shaft or wheels, brake friction, wheel bearings, tyre friction etc etc can effect the final reading?

[docwra]

You have to remember that dyno calculations are just an educated guess so to speak, and like you say there are so many variables involved, the only real way is an engine dyno,

one thing i am not sure about with what your saying about you result is that BHP is a direct calculation from the torque figure so in theory you can't have more of one without the other.

 

 

Dis-agree with this but I may be biased as I have a hub based dyno , if you don't use the conversion figure to estimate flywheel bhp it is a very good tool. Just look at the wheel/hub figures and you wont be far wrong.

 

Totally agree, surely its better to measure the driven output than just what the engine can do?

 

Either way, still want to see graphs, top end figures mean nothing outside of the pub

[Adam@Z1auto.com]

Not quite sure what you were expecting but it's a reasonable gain for the parts installed. Many of them could have been skipped altogether

 

Can't compare gains on the older cars vs newer cars at all. Non turbo civics come with substantially more hp than an R5 turbo did

[cowie]

Thats the set up i have on mine along with a plenum spacer and I managed 311bhp (weather,engine-even though the same as yours,all engines are different so different results)at RS tuning,couldn't give a rats @*!# about the numbers as the general drive-ability of the car has been transformed,nice and torquey through the mid range, oh and the sound is