zDan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hi all Been reading recently the thread about whether brake pads should be declared to insurers and after a bit more digging I read that the DS2500 pads are in fact not road legal? Apparently they don't have the R90 certification which is required for use on cars post 2001, and they are for track use only? There seems to be quite a lot about this on the internet - with opinions on both sides (surprise, surprise). Anyone here know a more authoritative source of information on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Do they have a BS number or the Euro equivalent? That's the key here really. And yes, you should tell your insurer if you've upped the spec of the brake pads. Probably won't care, but don't give them a reason not to pay out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The Ferodo pads do not have ECE R90 approval. These pads are considerably more than +/- 15% range that the requirements stipulate. Having said that, I choose to run these and the reason is simple: I would much rather be able to stop and avoid writing off my car / killing someone and know that I have an extremely good quality component than put on worse brakes to comply with regulation. There is no known case law from a high level court regarding this and I would personally happily go to court and represent myself against an insurance company if they try to argue that brake pads which are proven to be much better than alternatives make me more likely to have an accident. About a year ago I had an incident where I had to slow down from fast overtaking speed to zero in an emergency brake situation and I can tell you now that if it wasn't for these brakes, the car most certainly wouldn't still be here and I am not confident I would be either. That's good enough for me. The position on this reg is quite complicated as the wording is very minimal and unclear. For example, sticking a big brake kit on your car also technically falls foul of the reg as does virtually any modification that makes them >15% better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wonder why they havent got the correct certification. It cant be because they arent any good as mine are more than enough to stop the car quickly, even when cold. In fact, it passed the mot with them on last week without any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wonder why they havent got the correct certification. It cant be because they arent any good as mine are more than enough to stop the car quickly, even when cold. In fact, it passed the mot with them on last week without any problems. They will fly through MOT. But they can't test the quality of the brake pad relative to an OEM one there. The regs stipulate that any brake components such as pads, discs, lining, piston parts or whatever that are not OE have to perform within 15% (better or worse) of the standard equipment. Therefore brakes which are considerably better fall foul of the regs. Note: the box that DS2500 pads come in says "For Race Use Only". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wonder why they havent got the correct certification. It cant be because they arent any good as mine are more than enough to stop the car quickly, even when cold. In fact, it passed the mot with them on last week without any problems. They will fly through MOT. But they can't test the quality of the brake pad relative to an OEM one there. The regs stipulate that any brake components such as pads, discs, lining, piston parts or whatever that are not OE have to perform within 15% (better or worse) of the standard equipment. Therefore brakes which are considerably better fall foul of the regs. Note: the box that DS2500 pads come in says "For Race Use Only". Yeah i noticed that on the box! But if you think about it. Noone tells their insurance company if they have changed their OEM tyres, brake pads, discs or even headlamp bulbs, and who knows what parts garages fit or whether they are up to OEM spec. In fact I dont think at any point anyone actually checks a car to ensure items are up to OEM spec. Seems strange to some degree to have regs like this if they are never actually checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wonder why they havent got the correct certification. It cant be because they arent any good as mine are more than enough to stop the car quickly, even when cold. In fact, it passed the mot with them on last week without any problems. They will fly through MOT. But they can't test the quality of the brake pad relative to an OEM one there. The regs stipulate that any brake components such as pads, discs, lining, piston parts or whatever that are not OE have to perform within 15% (better or worse) of the standard equipment. Therefore brakes which are considerably better fall foul of the regs. Note: the box that DS2500 pads come in says "For Race Use Only". Yeah i noticed that on the box! But if you think about it. Noone tells their insurance company if they have changed their OEM tyres, brake pads, discs or even headlamp bulbs, and who knows what parts garages fit or whether they are up to OEM spec. In fact I dont think at any point anyone actually checks a car to ensure items are up to OEM spec. Seems strange to some degree to have regs like this if they are never actually checked. It's a reg that makes perfect sense and exists for a good reason. The reason is that when a barryboy in a corsa writes off a lambo because he fitted Aldi own brand brake pads, the insurance company and courts will have a reasonable argument to say that the driver is at fault and fully liable for all costs which they wouldn't be able to do without regs like this. Unfortunately the regs were poorly written as it is hard to see how a significantly better performing brake component can not pass the tests, so it's down to individuals what they want to do about their brakes. As I said I value safety over a pointless regulation. In my personal opinion, just because there is a reg out there, does not mean that common sense should not be used. Reminds me of firefighters who would not enter waist-deep water to save a drowning epileptic because their rule book said they had to have special training to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I raised this as a query when I replaced mine. As many have already said not being "road" pads doesnt make them bad pads. What would be interesting is if it would invalidate your insurance, if so and you fit them ... i wouldn't go shouting about it. I went for Reg 90 approved Cosworth SM pads to be safe from Horsham Dev (Basically best I could get staying within regulations). I checked my pads when they arrived and the approved symbol is small and would eventually rub off I believe so how you would go about proving or if anyone would check is another matter. I doubt DVLA or Police will strip your brakes down to check!! Maybe someone form Sky, Chris Knott etc could comment on insurers position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyinsurance Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Maybe someone form Sky, Chris Knott etc could comment on insurers position? I've been invited to post a reply on this thread. A rather generic reply I'm afraid, we can insure cars with most modifications but it is down to you to make sure you car is road legal. Ollie Sky Insurance http://www.skyinsurance.co.uk/insurance-quote.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Would use of these pads (or anything else that caused the car not to be technically legal, but not dangerous) cause an insurer to invalidate a claim? I understand that there would be nothing against a 3rd party, but could/would an insurer then go after the client for the claim? Speaking from a general perspective, not specifically for Sky so you can take that hat off for a bit if you like Ollie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyinsurance Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Would use of these pads (or anything else that caused the car not to be technically legal, but not dangerous) cause an insurer to invalidate a claim? I understand that there would be nothing against a 3rd party, but could/would an insurer then go after the client for the claim? Speaking from a general perspective, not specifically for Sky so you can take that hat off for a bit if you like Ollie I'd find it very unlikely but unfortunately yes, there is the potential for a claim to be invalided yes. A good comparison for this would be decats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What a load of scaremongering bollocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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