Captint, Mod list, yet again, final feedback appreciated

[StephenG]

Yes, I have the Autosport wiring harness. Abbey reported back that it was an excellent piece of kit and I'll really reap the benefits when I (ever) decide to take the kit off. Not cheap though (but comparatively cheap at the moment due to £>$)

 

I went for the additional oil capacity on recommendation that it was an additional safety measure when runnign the kit. The current thinking in the US was that tapping off at the top was a safer exercise than at the bottom where the spacer is. I'll be honest and say I never fully understood the ramifications and just went with the perceived wisdom on this one.

[captint]

So should I forget the fuel system?

[captint]

Please clarify the EMS, is that as in ECU FCOn etc.

 

My plan was to do everything at once and hence only require one mapping session, when I spoke to Abbey they basically said they don't need to put a new ecu in as the have their new software and mapping system that allows them to re-map stock ecus, which has been done successfully

[Guest prescience]

Please clarify the EMS, is that as in ECU FCOn etc.

 

My plan was to do everything at once and hence only require one mapping session, when I spoke to Abbey they basically said they don't need to put a new ecu in as the have their new software and mapping system that allows them to re-map stock ecus, which has been done successfully

 

Ah I see your issue. You are having a reflash of your ECU to set your fuelling and timing and so basically Abbey wish not to use the SplitSec box which is a piggy-back ECU (and which works fine out of the box).

 

The problem that then gives you is that the SplitSec box ALSO controls the FMU (fuel management unit) and hence auxiliary fuel pump (it switches it on dependent upon boost and RPM) so if you lose the SplitSec you must lose the Aux Fuel Pump. The stock fuel pump cannot deliver the higher fuel demand for the Vortech hence you have to upgrade.

 

Consider carefully going this route for the following reasons:

- The SplitSec solution is proven worldwide as being perfectly capable of driving the Vortech successfully and delivering the numbers

- Spill had problems with the 255 and had to get uprated injectors

- Abbey will charge for the install and probably quite a bit more besides for the reflash (that s/w don't come cheap)

- you have to have another reflash (at cost) when/if you want to put back to stock or upgrade

- if the serp belt breaks, you are prob. screwed until you replace it. If it breaks with SplitSec, you just take off the cog belt and remove the fuse and run stock

 

A reflash is very restrictive and potentially a reflash is required for every subsequent mod. A piggy back such as SplitSec, HKS F-Con, Unichip or UTEC is a much more flexible solution and cheaper to tune. The UTEC and SplitSec can both drive the standard Aux Fuel pump solution, the others cannot

 

Please ask Abbey why they want to go this route if it is not to generate more money and tie you in.

 

Above all, step back and think about all the permutations (and then get a bog standard install done )

[Guest prescience]

ps I have asked Booger to stop by from the States - he can advise much better than me

[captint]

Cheers Dorian

 

My goal is simple, get as much power out as possible, staying within the power capacity of the stock internals, so bascially I need to ascertain the best set up to do this. The goal is 412, but anyhing over 400 (401) is acceptable. I just need to ensure I have the right set up when I get it done, as my window of opportunity is quite small as I won't have the time to deal with this after March 31st

[StephenG]

The best thing you can do is put the kit in as intended, only modifying the 'safety' aspects (oil, plugs, fuel lines). The Split Second box does the 'out of the box' job admirably well.

 

I'd ignore the fuel stuff for now; it's a simple enough retrofit.

[Guest prescience]

Response from Booger as PM on my350Z

 

Tuning with a reflash is ok ...IF....you leave the SS box inplace to fine tune and to turn on the aux. fuel pump .

 

Going to a more free flowing exhaust . Will reduce trq. down low a little . But the good side is.....you will make more power up top in the rpm range and do it with less boost . A retrictive exhaust makes it easier to build boost , but you will make less HP with each PSI of boost .

 

You can go to the bigger Walbro fuel pump and bigger injectors . But you will have to reduce the amount of fuel preasure the FMU allows to the injectors . This is done with a smaller washer in the FMU . The FMU allows fuel preasure to rise at a rate of 8 to 1 or 6 to1 depending on the year of the kit .The newer kits use a 6 to 1 FMU . You may have to go to a 1 to 1 FMU or maybe a 2 to 1 FMU . I couldnt tell you . I would suggest calling Vortech and tell them what size injectors you are going with . They will send you the right size washer for the FMU .

 

As far as power goes . Every Dyno is different and the operator of that dyno can play a big part on how low or high it reads . But in truth , the 3.12 pulley will get you any where from 350whp to 385whp . I dont know how that compares to your bhp . We have guys here that find dyno opereators that adjust thier dyno's to read very high . Some are getting as high as 435whp on the 3.12....I dont believe it at all though . The male EGO is in play and some just need to be always better and will go to lengths to be tops. Both on the owner and the tuners EGO's

 

Just to compare . I run a T-trim blower making 13 to 14.9psi of boost . I have a safe tune on it now and a AT5 transmision , so numbers are lower than could be obtained.....I make 430whp and 348trq. . I have much to work to do , to make the most of my system still to do.

 

Hope I helped.....BIll

 

Note the stock pulley is 3.33

[StephenG]

Interesting stuff...

 

But that comment on the washer in the FMU is odd. A-level physics says that changing the aperture of any liquid flow does NOT change the pressure. You can ask a plumber!

[captint]

What the fook? Physics, Plumbers.

 

Dudes I am confused, what should I do ( I do really appreciate the advice, most exceptional).

 

OK so here goes

 

Scrap the fuel system, including the fuel pump and injectors

 

But get Iriduim cold plugs and uprated fuel lines

 

Should I space the oil pan or just get it tapped.

 

As I am changing the clutch, would it not make more sense to get a 3.12 fly wheel, or (I think StephenG has told me aleady) will put too much stress on the engine.

 

Stick to a non true dual exhaust, to allow back pressure hence increasing low end torque

 

And then instead of getting a remap, use the money to buy an Fcon Pro V instead?

[stuey]

all this money to spend on this car.............. why not just buy a faster one.............. ferrari for example

[ir_fuel]

[Guest prescience]

You have not been helped by this thread and I apologise in my part for that. For example, the 3.12 is the pulley size on the supercharger and is not at all related to flywheel. It is smaller that the standard pulley size so for every turn of the crank the supercharger turns more rotations hence creating more boost.

 

Let's get back to your objective which is to achieve 400 BHP.

 

IMO you need only to do these things:

- install the Vortech stock but use uprated fuel lines since this is a known weakness at least of older Vortechs.

- forget the spacer, it voids your warranty; just get Abbey to do stock install

- forget the fuel system mods (other than improved lines) (ignore the FMU spacer issues -I'll pick the bones out of that one offline with Stephen)

- forget the reflash

- do the clutch

 

That gets you to 395 or so.

 

Factor in 2 hours of Abbey's time to do a mild re-tune of the stock map (SplitSec etc) [this will involve them probably reducing the injector pulse width in Map A from a 10 to about an 8 at higher revs, but let them sort this]

 

That will achieve your top-end - but personally I say 400Bhp is for bragging because its Hp (work) not torque (force hence grunt) but whatever floats you boat

[Guest prescience]

Not my most helpful post - deleted

[Guest prescience]

Not my most helpful post - deleted

[Sarnie]

Not my most helpful post - deleted

 

What did it say?

[Guest prescience]

Interesting stuff...

 

But that comment on the washer in the FMU is odd. A-level physics says that changing the aperture of any liquid flow does NOT change the pressure. You can ask a plumber!

 

Stephen, remember that the auxiliary fuel-pump is Tee'd off and not in line. The SplitSec switches the pump on when in boost and IF it was in-line it would give you one hell of a fuel pressure

 

What the FMU does is allow a certain amount of fuel to pass through and be pumped by the aux fuel pump by gradually de-restricting the Tee'd line hence the pressure increases.

 

For a 6:1 setting, it will allow sufficient fuel to pass thru the Tee'd line to create for each extra pound of boost an extra 6 pounds of fuel pressure. So if you were running 5 psi boost you would see approx. an extra 30 psi of fuel pressure.

 

..............

 

In order to get sufficient fuel delivered, the tuner has the following tools to choose from.

1. Injector size - for a given pressure, more fuel will flow through a larger injector for the same injector time.

2. Increase injector pulse width (the amount of time the injector squirts fuel), the longer the time the more fuel is delivered for the same injector and same fuel pressure.

3. Increase the fuel pressure, so for the same injector time and size, more fuel is delivered.

 

There are limits to the above, one of which is the stock pump maximum flow** (roughly enough for 340Bhp) so you either need a larger pump (Walbro 255) or a switchable aux pump. The Walbro 255 is good for about 500Bhp.

 

[** the injector size and maximum time that you can squirt fuel are also limits]

 

Having a sufficient fuel flow for your power needs, the tuner then plays 1. - 3. to achieve the correct mixture.

 

That's my take on it

[StephenG]

Gotcha - thanks for that. My comments were related to the issue of a change in a *washer* changing the pressure - I couldn't see how that was possible if it was inline. It's the force of the pump that dictates pressure, not the width of the flow line...

 

Captint - you're there matey, I can't see any problems with your list. You're ready to purchase and dream