Government Benefit reforms?

[stuarty]

I'm really not into politics, but a news story caught my eye. Its reported that the government is currently reforming the benefits system.

What i couldn't beleive is that there capping benefit claims to £26000 a year. This includes income support, incapasity benefits and housing benefits etc.

I cant believe that people are receiving over £26000 in benefits to start with

As i said, i dont know much about the subject but why are people receiving such high amount in the first place?

[HassanZ]

I'm really not into politics, but a news story caught my eye. Its reported that the government is currently reforming the benefits system.

What i couldn't beleive is that there capping benefit claims to £26000 a year. This includes income support, incapasity benefits and housing benefits etc.

I cant believe that people are receiving over £26000 in benefits to start with

As i said, i dont know much about the subject but why are people receiving such high amount in the first place?

 

Gosh that's double some people's full-time salary!

[stuarty]

I'm really not into politics, but a news story caught my eye. Its reported that the government is currently reforming the benefits system.

What i couldn't beleive is that there capping benefit claims to £26000 a year. This includes income support, incapasity benefits and housing benefits etc.

I cant believe that people are receiving over £26000 in benefits to start with

As i said, i dont know much about the subject but why are people receiving such high amount in the first place?

 

Gosh that's double some people's full-time salary!

One lady on the news had to move out of her privately rented home as her income support and housing benefit of £500 wasnt enough

[buster]

makes me ...when i was off work due to post surgery for 9 months i got ssp and bugger all help to pay all the bills etc.

[rtbiscuit]

why do we give them money in the first place, why not food vouchers valid in supermarkets etc, and then a small amount of cash to suppliment any other important requirements. but to be honest there isn't much you can;t buy in tesco. or sainsburys etc these days.

 

and the vouchers should be invalid if you try and by things like fags and booze. they are after all a luxury not a life requirment.

[Dblock]

why do we give them money in the first place, why not food vouchers valid in supermarkets etc, and then a small amount of cash to suppliment any other important requirements. but to be honest there isn't much you can;t buy in tesco. or sainsburys etc these days.

 

and the vouchers should be invalid if you try and by things like fags and booze. they are after all a luxury not a life requirment.

 

Cos they have cash they havent worked for. They spend it like it grows on trees which it does for them. They are great for the economy.

[Chris`I]

fags and booze. they are after all a luxury not a life requirment.

You'd be amazed at the things they claim arent a luxury. Having worked at DWP for some time when I was younger (part time during studying), it made my blood boil what came out of some of these peoples mouths. They think that Sky TV, takeaways and holidays arent luxury items! One lady wanted seven (yes SEVEN) Giros making out to her as over a certain amount they have to be paid into account old (ie not cashed at the post office), and the only way to give her payment cashable was to split it! God knows what she was getting it for or why she couldnt bank it

[Chesterfield]

Im a firm believer that benefits should NEVER exceed the amount you can earn on minimum wage. Until that is the case we will never end the ability for some people to make benefits their career choice. The trouble is we now have generations that come to expect to live to the same standards as anyone else in society, regardless of whether they work for it or not.

 

I can't claim a single penny. We will not be entitled to any child benefits or tax tax credits. If i found myself out of work tomorrow that would still be the case. Yet a family that has not decided whether or not they can afford children before popping them out like shelling peas will be given thousands in support. Yet if i were to look into any sort of tax avoidance schemes in order to give my income a little boost to cope with the cost of a child, I would be lambasted by these socialist utopian idealists that think I should be "paying what I owe", even if after the avoidance it still results in six figures going to hmrc.

 

Were heading further and further down the road of forcing businesses and workers to think whether its all worth it. The vast majority of young workers will never be offered positions that pay circa £26k. as a first job. So when they see daisy and her two kids bringing home £20k with zero tax to pay having a jolly in the park on a Monday morning when everyone else is off fo work for their £15k a year. Where exactly is the motivation to work. Why not join daisy and let someone else fund the good life for them?

 

And then people wonder why the high tax payers get extremely pi**ed off and either avoid tax where they can or just leave the country all together.

 

Cap benefits at below minimum wage would be my suggestion. if somebody who works can't afford to live in that posh part of town, then why should someone who doesn't?

 

Higher rate benefits should be given to the disabled and those who physically can't take care of themselves. The money saved from cutting the payments to the lazy can fund higher salaries for nurses/paramedics and others who serve society. If people who work find themselves on hard times they can have higher benefits based on what they paid into the system while at work. Hopefully that would encourage some to get a job or train in an area that makes a difference. It will also ease a massive amount of pressure on the public sector pay and pensions budget.

 

Sadly it will never happen, as it will no doubt be against some human right to prevent some lazy no intention of ever working layout dosser from being able to afford his/her fags and playstation.

[ioneabee]

What I can't believe is that the House of Lords is objecting to the cap ??

[Iwantone]

The news programme that I saw this on said that 40,000 families would be affected by the £26,000 cap. I ask ya, 40,000 families claiming more than £26,000 a year!!!! The difficulty that I have is that I don't believe that kids should suffer as a result of their parents actions.

[Chris`I]

IMO benefits should be a good chunk below minimum wage to get people out to work. If its even close to it people will chose not to work and will sponge off the government. The majority of people will, in their nature, take the easiest route in life and if that means they can claim as much as they could make on minimum wage then thats what they'd do. You need to give people a real incentive to get off their asses and do a days work.

 

Too many busy-bodies about these days claiming peoples "rights" which for some reason they believe is more than basic food adn shelter. Not sure sure when in life people managed to get a right that I should pay for everything they do, when all they do is smoke, drink and pop out sprogs all day along. And before the PC patrol come along saying that is not a balanced view of things, I suggest they go work front line at DWP/JCP for a while and see who we are funding with our taxes

[Chesterfield]

It does seem rather pointless to have a vote every few years to put in place a democratically elected government to act on behalf of the people only to have their decisions rejected by a group of largely senile wholly unelected lords that lost touch with the real world many years ago.

[Chesterfield]

The difficulty that I have is that I don't believe that kids should suffer as a result of their parents actions.

 

if they did, then it may encourage those children not to take the same actions when they ate old enough to become parents themselves. Whilever we continue to demonstrate that however stupid your decision to have 9 kids when you have no means of supporting them is society will pick up the tab, we will never rid a lare portion of our society of the benefits as a career choice mentality.

[leonk]

The biggest drain is housing benefit. We do a lot of work for landlords and it astonishes me just how much rent is received in relation to the actual market rental value. We the tax payer are being shafted!

 

Now if you were one of these landlords you probably wouldn't want to see any sort of capping.

 

£6.08 x 48 x 52 = £15,175.58 even taking int account child benefit of £1,092, gives a total of £16,500

 

Where the F do they get £26 grand from

[Stew]

It's an absolute disgrace that people that don't work at all can 'earn' more than those that do. If those claimants genuinely can't find a job then they should actually earn their benefits by doing work for local authorities or government schemes to tidy up communities, painting walls that have been gratified, picking up litter, gardening etc etc. I see no reason why those on job seekers can't work when not at interviews or at training courses to better their employment prospects.

 

That's my idealistic view.

[TOYBOY]

It's an absolute disgrace that people that don't work at all can 'earn' more than those that do. If those claimants genuinely can't find a job then they should actually earn their benefits by doing work for local authorities or government schemes to tidy up communities, painting walls that have been gratified, picking up litter, gardening etc etc. I see no reason why those on job seekers can't work when not at interviews or at training courses to better their employment prospects.

 

That's my idealistic view.

 

+1

[rabbitstew]

makes me ...when i was off work due to post surgery for 9 months i got ssp and bugger all help to pay all the bills etc.

 

+1

 

I was in the unfortunately position of being laid off work a few years back and went down the job centre for the first time ever. Id heard all sorts of reports of what the job centre is like and the people who go there, but I always keep an open mind on these things.

 

I turn up and have to fight through chavs outside drinkin and smoking whilst their kids are in prams outside, I had to check in past 3 burly doorman like im at a club in order to get into the job centre, then inside you are queuing up for about 40minutes with all sorts of dodgy looking characters, a lot of whom did not speak English, before being able to see someone. The result was I could get £60 a week and that was it. No help with mortgage or anything else. Not that I expected anything, but £240 a month is hardly going to pay all my bills to look after my house and feed me.

 

The woman behind the desk told me if i had no mortgage I could get housing benefit which basically covers your rent on somewhere to live, but cos I have a mortgage I get nothing.

 

Also, the real kicker was because ive been working all my life I get unemployment benefit, and not income support. Which means I have to pay for prescriptions, eye tests, dentist etc. etc. Had I never worked in my life and been a dosser, id have got Income Support which means an automatic get out of jail card giving you free prescriptions, eye tests, dentist, automatic council tax benefit and housing benefit.

 

To be honest, after going back about 2 or 3 times to sign on and being treated like total scum by the people working there I jacked it all in and got a job labouring on a building site for £50 a day for the next 8 months. I just couldn't face the demoralization and the shame of signing on.

 

With regards to the £26k cap, I can well believe that as when I was down the dole office I was speaking to someone who l knew from years back. He told me that he would not be any better off working unless he got a job for about £30k a year. And for someone who has no qualifications or a trade, he was very unlikely to get that. When he worked out all his benefits, like income support, housing benefit, council tax benefit etc. etc. it all came to about £26k a year. He was also getting mobility allowance as he had hurt his leg a few years previous. The hillarious thing was I commented to him that he had put on some serious muscle since id last seen him and he then was telling me about how he hits the gym 4 times a week doing heavy weights and does running etc. etc. !!!!

[Kev T]

Read an article recently that until the recent rent cap there were families with 8 or more kids, living in massive houses in expensive parts of London i.e St Johns Wood, that were being supported by the tax payer to the tune of £2000 a WEEK !! All thanks to the previous government policy.

How outragous is that ?

[Ekona]

Trouble is, if you only give houses to folks on the housing list in cheapy areas, you end up with making a social divide even bigger.

 

 

Not that I particularly agree or care about that side of things, but that's the reason I believe. Social integration and all that is b*llocks, if people want to live in nive houses they should work hard for it like the rest of us have to. Can't afford a 5-bed house for all your kids? Not a problem, take the kids off them and give them to families on the adoption list and that those who want IVF on the NHS.

 

Also worth remembering that the £26K is a cap, not what most families will receive before we get too Daily Mail in here

[rabbitstew]

Read an article recently that until the recent rent cap there were families with 8 or more kids, living in massive houses in expensive parts of London i.e St Johns Wood, that were being supported by the tax payer to the tune of £2000 a WEEK !! All thanks to the previous government policy.

How outragous is that ?

 

Not sure why they need massive houses. Both my parents grew up in 3 bed terrace houses and had about 7 brothers / sisters each!

 

 

Trouble is, if you only give houses to folks on the housing list in cheapy areas, you end up with making a social divide even bigger.

 

 

Not that I particularly agree or care about that side of things, but that's the reason I believe. Social integration and all that is b*llocks, if people want to live in nive houses they should work hard for it like the rest of us have to. Can't afford a 5-bed house for all your kids? Not a problem, take the kids off them and give them to families on the adoption list and that those who want IVF on the NHS.

 

Thats why all new builds apparently have to also allocate a certain percentage of the build as "affordable houses" or rent them out to people on housing benefit. Theres quite a few new developments near me where you have nice 4 or 5 bed houses, then litterally 3 doors down you get a load of flats with low lifes living in them.

 

Totally agree with your comments though. I really just dont understand some peoples mind sets these days. I made the decision not to have kids until I could afford them and look after them. But some of these people seem to have kids as if they are a toy without even considering how an earth they are going to support them. They just assume its a given that the state (ie. us tax payers) will happily fund them and their kid. Then of course the kid grows up thinking thats normal and does the same. Thats why we see some familys where theres a great grandmother who is only like 45 or something.

[JetSet]

Not sure why they need massive houses. Both my parents grew up in 3 bed terrace houses and had about 7 brothers / sisters each!

 

 

 

 

All 4 of my grandparents came from families of at least 10 children. My Grandmother on my mothers side had 12 sisters although several died in childhood which was par for the course back then. Goodness only knows how they managed without any kind of benefit but somehow they did!

 

Pete

[stuarty]

Ive lived in the same house all my life (37 years) and i have been fortunate enough to have never claimed any benefits. The only thing ive had free is my uni tuition fees paid.

One of my friends stayed in a flat that he had a mortgage on. He meet a girl that had 3 kids to different fathers. He sold his flat mortgaged a 4 bed semi and moved in with his new bit of slack!

He now has his address at his parents, although he stays with his bag and kids in the semi. She claims single parent benefits for her and the kids and she also gets £600 a month housing benefit paid straight to him as he is pretending to be her landlord!

He was bragging that the government was paying the mortgage and giving them around £800 per month in other benefits. By he way he has a really good paying job.

[Chris`I]

He wont be bragging if they catch up with him

[stuarty]

He wont be bragging if they catch up with him

My brother is a job center manager, he told me the reason why alot of benefits are now paid by the tax man ( tax credits) instead of social security is so that if you get caught making a faulse claim, its classed as tax fraud and not benefit fraud. Therefore the penalties can be more severe.

[Chesterfield]

Im thinking of setting up a property company maiing myself and my wife directors, buying my house off myself, and charging myself rent. Then sacking myself and claiming housing benefit to pay my rent to the company I still own half the shares of while now being unemployed. Im sure its not legal, but probably complicated enough to give HMRC the run around for a year or so

 

Ive also recent learned of some VERY clever tax avoidance schemes. One in particular is actually funny, as it uses HMRCs own legislation against them to result in a zero tax payable on dividends. All perfectly legal for now, and would give HMRC a big headache if they wanted to legislate against it, as it would mean reversing legislation that is currently used to try and prevent another avoidance measure. Im not undertaking any as I cant be bothered with the sword of damocles hanging over me for 5-7 years while HMRC decide what they can do about it. But if anyone is seriously interested drop me a pm and you can talk to your accountant about it.