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Handling changes


Rainman

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Hi All,

 

Having driven about 150 miles in my 350Z I'm getting the feel for it that you just can't get when test driving. My overal impression of the handling is fairly positive, but it's a long way from perfect.

 

A couple of things I notice are the slow-ish steering and that I can make the traction controll come on in the mildest of open-sweepers with only mild throttle input. It's currently on standard 18" rims shod with Bridgestone Potenza REO50As

 

The kind of things that come to mind to sharpen up the steering are wheel/tyre size choices but I'm gonna just hold fire on that for a moment as I don't want to sharpen up the steering if I can make the back-end break loose so easily.

 

Weight is obviously a factor in both of these issues but I'm not quite ready to start putting my 350Z on a diet just yet.

 

My immediate thoughts turned to ground effects and suspension changes - anyone able to relate to what I'm describing and got some suggestions? It's all very subjective I know, but I'm interested in what other folk are doing. I did a search and couldn't find much.

 

Phil

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Its not the TC, thats working as intended. I've turned it off and the rear is definatey breaking loose with only mild abuse, but hey I guess it could be just my level of expectation. If I wanted a drift-monster I'd be quite happy.

 

Phil

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I know exactly what you're talking about, and you're right to hold off on the tyres for now.

 

Get yourself a set of adjustable ARBS (Eibach are very good from experience) and then the full set of underbody bracing (IIRC there's two braces at the front, one giant one in the middle and another one at the rear) from GT Spec or Summit. The bracing alone will give you far more feedback and also sharper steering at the front end, whilst the back will give you a tighter rear end for more control when it does break loose. Also a good set of adjustable A-arms on the front suspension and camber arms for the rear will enable a more positive geo to be done on the car, allowing even more fine tuning.

 

Do that, then do the suspension if you're still not happy. I suspect you will be though, as from your previous posts I can tell you're a man after my own heart where feel from the car is above all else. :)

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Whiteline or Superpro bushes are a major improvement upgrade.

One of our traders Horsham Developments recently upgraded their car with Superpro bushes and have wrote up a report in their sub forum.

 

I had Tein SuperStreet coilover fitted to my Zed, and found them to perform fantastically.

 

Adjustable ARB's are an upgrade too, as the OEM has very little adjustment if you lower the car and then finder the camber is way out.

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Tein Super street suspension with EDFC

Nismo ARB's

Toyo 888's

Kazza rear diff

Adjustable rear camber arms

 

Awesome grip and if it does let go great control :)

 

I never drive with TC on as it "argues" with the LSD but she goes round bends way better than stock.

 

However as I still spun it at castle combe and I don't want to go on a diet and the car won't eat salad either!

 

New setup will be -

 

Tein Flex suspension with EDFC

Nismo ARB's

Toyo 888's - (probably)

Kazza rear diff

Adjustable rear camber arms

Power Grid adjustable drop links

SuperPro 350z adjustable bush Kit (all bushes) - so all toe and cambers can be setup

Whiteline diff hanger \ sub frame bushes

new track rod ends

GT-Spec bracing set (Budget allowing)

 

Give me 2 months I'll let you know how much better it is :thumbs:

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While bracing, ARB's and bushes are all worthwhile for sure, I found slapping a set of HSD coilovers on improved every aspect of the handling and ride straight off :thumbs:

 

If you are finding the back end a bit wobbly with RE050A's at fairly low lateral force then Id be checking the alignment as well, they are usually pretty sticky TBF.

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All the above is great advise. :thumbs:

 

BUT......I would advise playing with your tyre pressures first and getting a full Geometry set up. How many miles has it done?

It could just be the suspension components/bushes etc are a bit tired to.

 

The Zed is not the most planted car in the world, but it should be better than your describing. I have stock suspension, although very low mileage, and quite light Forged 19" wheels with 275 RE050A's. With 420bhp I still have to try quite hard to get the arse out mid-corner in 3rd gear and above. Don't get me wrong, it could defiantly be better but what your describing sounds like something is not quite right.

 

Just a suggestion, and might save you £££

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I would be inclined to suggest tyre pressures before you pronounce judgment on the steering, as for TC , well its known to interfere even when switched off, you will need to put a switch in the orange power wire to the G sensor in the cetre console to truly turn off the TC, if you want to be able to drift any sense.

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Remember it is winter and you're on Bridgestones :p

 

The Bridgestones don't fair well in cold and damp conditions. I bought my car going into winter and found it very twitchy when the temperature dropped running standard sized Bridgestone RE040s. Come the spring and summer though the grip was immense even in the wet. You might want to wait until the weather gets warmer and drier until you pass judgement on the handling.

 

I found the handling a bit scary in the winter on Bridgestones with lots of tramlining and a general feeling of instability above 50 -60 mph on straight roads. I also had the back end kick out a few times when I didn't expect it going around corners even though I was driving very carefully :scare: This led me to get some winter tyres for this year, but it has been fairly mild down South this winter so far :bang: There have been a few icy mornings though and the winters do feel good when it's really cold but the sidewalls are a bit soft so there is a touch of roll on the tyres compared with the bridgestones. Much more stable in the cold and wet conditions though.

 

I would just say wait a bit before you go mad with changing the suspension as you might find it improves with the weather.

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Remember it is winter and you're on Bridgestones :p

 

The Bridgestones don't fair well in cold and damp conditions. I bought my car going into winter and found it very twitchy when the temperature dropped running standard sized Bridgestone RE040s. Come the spring and summer though the grip was immense even in the wet. You might want to wait until the weather gets warmer and drier until you pass judgement on the handling.

All true, except he's on the RE050As which are a far, far superior tyre to the RE040s ;)

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If you are finding the back end a bit wobbly with RE050A's at fairly low lateral force then Id be checking the alignment as well, they are usually pretty sticky TBF.

 

+1 If the 050A's have good tread, pressures are right then even in damp conditions it should not be "breaking loose with only mild abuse" as your describe. But many an owner have had their moments on roundabout exists in damp conditions but that is invairably down to non-progressive throttle use, something from your posts that I detect is not your style.

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If you are finding the back end a bit wobbly with RE050A's at fairly low lateral force then Id be checking the alignment as well, they are usually pretty sticky TBF.

 

+1 If the 050A's have good tread, pressures are right then even in damp conditions it should not be "breaking loose with only mild abuse" as your describe. But many an owner have had their moments on roundabout exists in damp conditions but that is invairably down to non-progressive throttle use, something from your posts that I detect is not your style.

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If you are finding the back end a bit wobbly with RE050A's at fairly low lateral force then Id be checking the alignment as well, they are usually pretty sticky TBF.

 

+1 If the 050A's have good tread, pressures are right then even in damp conditions it should not be "breaking loose with only mild abuse" as your describe. But many an owner have had their moments on roundabout exists in damp conditions but that is invairably down to non-progressive throttle use, something from your posts that I detect is not your style.

 

I have never had the TC on while "mild cornering" ...... what size are your tyres?

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If you are finding the back end a bit wobbly with RE050A's at fairly low lateral force then Id be checking the alignment as well, they are usually pretty sticky TBF.

 

+1 If the 050A's have good tread, pressures are right then even in damp conditions it should not be "breaking loose with only mild abuse" as your describe. But many an owner have had their moments on roundabout exists in damp conditions but that is invairably down to non-progressive throttle use, something from your posts that I detect is not your style.

 

I have never had the TC on while "mild cornering" ...... what size are your tyres?

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I would be inclined to suggest tyre pressures before you pronounce judgment on the steering, as for TC , well its known to interfere even when switched off, you will need to put a switch in the orange power wire to the G sensor in the cetre console to truly turn off the TC, if you want to be able to drift any sense.

 

Pressing the button turns the TC off which will allow you to drift as much as you like, but it doesnt turn off the stability control that will fire the front brakes if it thinks you are understeering. Not that big of an issue but annoying on track.

 

Easiest way to sort it is to pull the three ABS plugs on the inside wing near the brake fluid reservoir, this will light up the TCS and SLIP lights on the speedo and means everything (including ABS) is turned off. To turn it back on just plug them back in again :thumbs:

 

The more I think about it the more I reckon your problem is alignment, as others have said the RE050A is a damn good tyre and shouldnt be breaking traction on mild throttle, TBF it shouldnt really be doing it on full throttle ........ :bangin:

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I would be inclined to suggest tyre pressures before you pronounce judgment on the steering, as for TC , well its known to interfere even when switched off, you will need to put a switch in the orange power wire to the G sensor in the cetre console to truly turn off the TC, if you want to be able to drift any sense.

 

Pressing the button turns the TC off which will allow you to drift as much as you like, but it doesnt turn off the stability control that will fire the front brakes if it thinks you are understeering. Not that big of an issue but annoying on track.

 

Easiest way to sort it is to pull the three ABS plugs on the inside wing near the brake fluid reservoir, this will light up the TCS and SLIP lights on the speedo and means everything (including ABS) is turned off. To turn it back on just plug them back in again :thumbs:

 

The more I think about it the more I reckon your problem is alignment, as others have said the RE050A is a damn good tyre and shouldnt be breaking traction on mild throttle, TBF it shouldnt really be doing it on full throttle ........ :bangin:

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OK, I'll recheck the tyre pressures - my first big mistake is assuming that they're correct after it's service 500 miles ago. If they're over-inflated it would contribute to the back-end coming away a little too readily. Very probable - I'll check and get back to you all.

 

@Ken, I wouldn't say that what I'm experiencing is a problem persay. I would imagine that many owners would be very happy with the stock-handling. I am being overly critical. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a nice drive and I don't think it's horrible at all - but I do believe it could be 100% better, certainly to my own preference.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but if I do want to push-on in day-to-day driving then I will be wanting to sharpen up the turn in, stop it tram-lining (which is one of my more recent discoveries) and generally make it feel a bit more predictable and planted.

 

At the moment I feel the way to drive it is a bit like an older 911 - steem up to a corner and get all your speed off before you turn in but try and carry as much speed as you dare through the corner, then get on the gas once you're passed the apex and can see the corner opening up. Nothing wrong in that at all tbh, it's still fun. It's odd though, as it doesn't feel like it's carrying the weight up front as I thought it would - which leads me to believe that Nissan tried hard in making it work as a front-engined car and stopping understeer. I don't find it understeers at all, but once I'm able to get on the power earlier I might find that it does - I can't really tell yet as I'm just not being that brutal with it right now.

 

It's just the way I drive I guess - I like to be able to 'drive' through the corner from the moment all my braking is done and I've started to turn in, which means my exit speed is going to be quicker as I'm feeling the throttle earlier. At the moment I wouldn't drive it that way as getting on the throttle mid corner whilst trying to adjust my position on the road with the slightly ponderous steering doesn't provide the most confidence inspiring performance. :lol:

 

It might sounds like I'm not enjoying the car, but really I am. Honest. :)

 

The thought of all this untapped potential is great - it's exactly what I was looking for from a 350Z. It's a very very good car, but with not much effort it can be made a great car, and thats brilliant.

 

Phil

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OK, I'll recheck the tyre pressures - my first big mistake is assuming that they're correct after it's service 500 miles ago. If they're over-inflated it would contribute to the back-end coming away a little too readily. Very probable - I'll check and get back to you all.

 

@Ken, I wouldn't say that what I'm experiencing is a problem persay. I would imagine that many owners would be very happy with the stock-handling. I am being overly critical. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a nice drive and I don't think it's horrible at all - but I do believe it could be 100% better, certainly to my own preference.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but if I do want to push-on in day-to-day driving then I will be wanting to sharpen up the turn in, stop it tram-lining (which is one of my more recent discoveries) and generally make it feel a bit more predictable and planted.

 

At the moment I feel the way to drive it is a bit like an older 911 - steem up to a corner and get all your speed off before you turn in but try and carry as much speed as you dare through the corner, then get on the gas once you're passed the apex and can see the corner opening up. Nothing wrong in that at all tbh, it's still fun. It's odd though, as it doesn't feel like it's carrying the weight up front as I thought it would - which leads me to believe that Nissan tried hard in making it work as a front-engined car and stopping understeer. I don't find it understeers at all, but once I'm able to get on the power earlier I might find that it does - I can't really tell yet as I'm just not being that brutal with it right now.

 

It's just the way I drive I guess - I like to be able to 'drive' through the corner from the moment all my braking is done and I've started to turn in, which means my exit speed is going to be quicker as I'm feeling the throttle earlier. At the moment I wouldn't drive it that way as getting on the throttle mid corner whilst trying to adjust my position on the road with the slightly ponderous steering doesn't provide the most confidence inspiring performance. :lol:

 

It might sounds like I'm not enjoying the car, but really I am. Honest. :)

 

The thought of all this untapped potential is great - it's exactly what I was looking for from a 350Z. It's a very very good car, but with not much effort it can be made a great car, and thats brilliant.

 

Phil

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Id put good money on your alignment being out. The way you are describing your cars handling sounds nothing like the way Id describe mine, once youve got past the initial turn in unless you drive like John Clubfoot you shouldnt really have any issues, if you do they will be telegraphed to you long before the car starts sliding, it shouldnt really tramline on standard wheels either :)

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Id put good money on your alignment being out. The way you are describing your cars handling sounds nothing like the way Id describe mine, once youve got past the initial turn in unless you drive like John Clubfoot you shouldnt really have any issues, if you do they will be telegraphed to you long before the car starts sliding, it shouldnt really tramline on standard wheels either :)

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