Rainman Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hi Guys, I've had 'sign off' from 'she who must be obeyed' and I have cash waiting for the right car and I'm prepared to travel a long way to collect and drive away if there is a genuine bargain out there. I'm looking for low to avg miles with FSH, genuine UK GT spec car with leather and pref Sat Nav but it's not a deal breaker. Something between 53 and 05 reg, the budget is quite flexible and I haven't really set an upper limit. I'm looking for value for money rather than just the cheapest car out there. I've already walked away from around 6 cars I've seen advertised elsewhere as they were either cat C or D and the advertiser had tried to hide it, or the car had turned out to be an import. I've seen a lot of over-valued cars so far, although to be fair I've seen one or two very reasonable cars here on the forums and I've already contacted the owners so we'll see what that brings. I'm going by the Parker's guide 'Private Good' pricing for the right vehicle. If you've modified the engine extensively then I'm not likely to be interested as the car is for my own project and I don't want someone elses work - no disrespect. Thats said, if you've modified the suspension or some other aspect to improve handling then I would take it into consideration. Light cosmetic enhancements are ok, but I'll draw the line at a modest rear spoiler and nothing more extravagent than that please. Big engine mods are a definate no no I'm afraid - exhausts, decat, etc are fine though, so long as the OEM is included in the deal. To give you an idea of what I'm prepared to pay, my ideal is going to be a standard spec GT with leather 53 plate with avg miles - parkers is pricing around £5845 for a privately sold UK spec GT car and I can work upwards from there depending on year, miles and spec (The Glass trade-in price is £3000 to £4000 for the same car ... eek). So if you want you can check out their website and get a feel for what I'd be prepared to pay for a car between 53 and 05. I'm using Parkers as a guide deliberately, as it is broadly accepted that they are not hot on their updates atm unlike Glass's guide and so their prices are likely to be more favourable and possibly better reflect a well cared for car from an enthusiast on these forums. I'll consider any colour so long as it's not gold and I'd possibly pay a beer-token more for a blue one. Thanks for reading, but please no JDM cars or Cat C or D and if it looks like something out of The Fast And The Furious or a mad Tokyo Drift type movie then there won't be much point contacting me. Your 350Z really needs to be as standard as pos as I don't want to pay a premium for someone elses preference in terms of mods but I can also appreciate that this might be a big ask on these forums. PM me to discuss or exchange mobile numbers. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamybaby Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 pm sent.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Good luck with the search mate but i reckon your looking at fairly galactic milage for a UK car at that money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 As Ricey says, older cars by default have more mileage and the ones with low mileage are few and far between and are far from a 'bargain'. Glasses I would be wary of believing as gospel btw - I know for a fact in the trade there is a lot of anger amongst car dealers who find their valuations on lesser known cars poor. Like you I didnt want a JDM either, although since paying extra for a UK car (which you will have to too) and having seen a lot of very nice JDMs on here I do wonder if it really makes any difference. I see you didnt mention service history, 350z engines are very reliable plenty on here are approaching or passed 100k miles no problem. Just make sure you get a fully stamped service history, doesnt all have to be Nissan either, if it has a reputable independant in there it is just as good Its a good time to buy though, prices are down but beware that waiting too long and you might find prices recover towards summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainman Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Good luck with the search mate but i reckon your looking at fairly galactic milage for a UK car at that money Very possibly, and I would expect average mileage for any book price - approx 10k - 12k per annum. So a 53 plate with 90K miles is fine and with what I've got in mind for long-term, it's not going to be an issue. I've been playing with a few ideas and having driven an unmodified and completely stock 05 car I'm quite seriously torn between picking up a low miles car and just buying it, driving it and living it with it in mostly stock trim (for which Seamybaby's would be perfect and is priced well). If I wasn't considering modifying the car and just living with it then I would automatically go for an 06 and newer anyway and as I already eluded to, the budget is flexible. I'm not looking to pull anyones pants down on their pride and joy. One of the options I've got is the availability of a donor engine (not from a 350Z and details of which I'm not going to divulge at this stage) in which case the mileage is almost a moot point and my figures for a 53 plate car with avg miles stand. Or of course, there is the middle ground - find something a bit newer and tidier than a 53 and just work with the stock engine and go the forced-induction route, in which case I'd want something with mileage on the lower side, and of course I'd expect to spend the appropriate money. My point is I'm flexible. At this stage I'm focussed on following the donor engined route as I have the option on an appropriate unit and have the resources of time, money and access to expertise to see it through. So this is why I'm evaluating 53-05 cars at this stage. If it seems I can't find an appropriate example where someone hasn't already invested themselves in the car (and developed an attachment which means their own appraisal of the vehicle is out of kilter with it's real value) then I'll have to look for newer cars and spend my money on running something newer in mostly stock trim - which I'm quite happy to do. I want to bottom out the modified option first as I plan to buy the car now and have it at least 2/3 complete before easter and various meets at 'The Pod' and down the southwest. So if I don't find something before the end of the month then I'm gonna be pushed to meet my own deadline so I can have fun in it this year rather than next year. In which case I'll start looking for a newer 350Z as a day-to-day drive and think about a different project altogether for next year. Not wanting to stray off-topic too much but there is another thing to note, and folks here should consider this when selling their higher valued pride and joys. If someone is looking to spend the thick end of £10K or more then part-ex will start to become a factor, particularly for me as I won't then keep my Cupra. If thats the case then I'll be looking at buying from the trade so I can get a warranty, etc. This is one of the main reasons people see cars prices plumet when selling cars in that price bracket. I had this issue myself a few years back when one of my family fleet was a BMW Mini Cooper S which had a book price of £12K in a private sale at the time. I had it up for £11K for months and no takers, all the time with prices dropping further, and I was forced to take £10K for it by just selling it direct to a BMW dealer. The next day they had the car up for sale for £13.5K and it didn't sit on their forecourt for more than a week before they had sold it. Thats how it works I'm afraid. I sat their choked at the prospect of loosing £2K where they made a tidy £3.5K for what seemed very little effort - 33% markup is a healthy profit in this day and age. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I see you didnt mention service history, 350z engines are very reliable plenty on here are approaching or passed 100k miles no problem. Just make sure you get a fully stamped service history, doesnt all have to be Nissan either, if it has a reputable independant in there it is just as good Plenty passing 100k but I think Phil said he's looking at getting upto around 360bhp..........has anyone taken a Zed up that high on a 100k+ car who can offer any advice? I've not really got a clue but I would have thought it would be a fair bit riskier doing it on a high miler? If your 6k in for the car and another 6k in for the bump in BHP you wouldn't want a nasty engine boom to go with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 OK didn't see the bit about super/turbo charging it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You're looking at about 8k for a 50k miler GT 53 mate. Parkers doesn't take the GT pack into consideration which adds 1500 or so to the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINKJ Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Also, its good to make the point that nobody would try and hide the real history behind their Z for sale on this forum, all are very open and willing to help you. So your def in the right place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Honest opinion Phil - even based on 8 posts - the chances of you keeping the car stock are nil I reckon! I think the reason why people will have 'fuller' values on here is you in many cases get an invaluable background to the car for at least the last persons owership. Service history tells a lot but on here you also get a feel for how many issues they've had, accidents involved in, detailing pictures, parts used for spares and repairs, previous modifications..........its all definitely worth a few more quid than the guides (obviously all subject to someone actually posting up these things on the forum). Generally forum members on here do tend to look after their cars better than the overage Joe as they're more of an 'enthusiast' than an 'owner'.........obviously there exceptions to the rule but there are a large quantity of OCD detailing nutters on here. Keep looking though and with the plans you've got I reckon you'll get what you need - might need a bit of tidying but if your swapping the block out then its not that much bother.......even low milers have the niggling issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainman Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 You're looking at about 8k for a 50k miler GT 53 mate. Parkers doesn't take the GT pack into consideration which adds 1500 or so to the price. Well actually they do, and the price difference in the second hand market is around £400 to £500 depending on dealer or private sale. The extra it costs when new isn't reflected in second hand value and that is true of many cars. Essentially, the difference between a fully loaded car and one that isn't is that one sells easier than the other and the buyer will only add a token value to the fully loaded model. There is an argument to made in that people buying second-hand cars probably have more consideration for resale value than people buying new cars - lets face it, no one buys new cars with the hope of getting anything like the purchase price back, unless it's something REALLY special. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You're looking at about 8k for a 50k miler GT 53 mate. Parkers doesn't take the GT pack into consideration which adds 1500 or so to the price. Well actually they do, and the price difference in the second hand market is around £400 to £500 depending on dealer or private sale. The extra it costs when new isn't reflected in second hand value and that is true of many cars. Essentially, the difference between a fully loaded car and one that isn't is that one sells easier than the other and the buyer will only add a token value to the fully loaded model. There is an argument to made in that people buying second-hand cars probably have more consideration for resale value than people buying new cars - lets face it, no one buys new cars with the hope of getting anything like the purchase price back, unless it's something REALLY special. Phil To say that the difference is £500 and then that the only difference is that one sells quicker is contradicting yourself somewhat. Also, Mega stated that the difference is about £1500 and you said: The extra it costs when new isn't reflected in second hand value and that is true of many cars. The GT pack was an extra £2500 when new, not £1500. Yes, a GT pack car will sell quicker but that doesn't mean that a non GT car will sell for the same price but just take longer. I've been on this site nearly six years and have seen lots of non GT cars take months to sell AND have their prices slashed just to get rid of them, so I would say that an extra £1500 is an accurate 'premium' for a GT car to reflect to the higher spec AND the fact that it will sell quicker upon resale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Sarnie knows But the fact is this. If you could get the car you wanted off autotrader for the price you've decided is fair based on trade values and a private value not taking options into account: You would have. But now you are here telling us what our cars are worth: So you can't have had any success so far eh? But if you pick up a 50k mileage non declared UK GT car for 4700 then congratulations You would usually expect to pay a slight premium for a known member car as it is likely to be in superb condition and very well documented to compare to your average dealer. Furthermore the honesty you'll get here means chances of getting stung down the line are slashed. "You", however, seem to think enthusiast forum means bottom line price? Good luck with the purchase anyway. I'd be inclined to sell mine for the right money, but I get the impression it'd be roughly double what you think is fair Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Guys lets just leave him to it. He has posted up a wanted thread... so lets keep it that way. It is clear that Rainman does not want to take advice from us.... so lets leave him to it... Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 PS: Have you seen this: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3454011.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Guys lets just leave him to it. He has posted up a wanted thread... so lets keep it that way. It is clear that Rainman does not want to take advice from us.... so lets leave him to it... Just my opinion NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You're looking at about 8k for a 50k miler GT 53 mate. Parkers doesn't take the GT pack into consideration which adds 1500 or so to the price. Well actually they do, and the price difference in the second hand market is around £400 to £500 depending on dealer or private sale. The extra it costs when new isn't reflected in second hand value and that is true of many cars. Essentially, the difference between a fully loaded car and one that isn't is that one sells easier than the other and the buyer will only add a token value to the fully loaded model. There is an argument to made in that people buying second-hand cars probably have more consideration for resale value than people buying new cars - lets face it, no one buys new cars with the hope of getting anything like the purchase price back, unless it's something REALLY special. Phil Like Sarnie says, have to disagree, more loaded cars sell for more - at pretty much all levels. I recently spent 2 months looking at tens of Ford Focus's in the £2k price bracket, could have snapped up a decent 1.6LX for £1.8k no problem but hung out and bought a similar mile/condition Ghia for £2.2k - I paid for the premium kit, and that was a cheaper one that I had to wait 2 months to find and buy the day it went up for sale. When I was looking to buy a Zed, spent about 4 weeks doing it, noticed in that time non GTs sitting on autotrader longer than GTs, but in my view they were somewhat overpriced so whether they were there because they were non GTs or because they were overpriced is open to debate. Zeds suffer from seasonality as well, after I bought mine prices of Black GTs went up and I was dead chuffed with my bargain - now though the price (taking into account 9 months of time passed) is way down on what I paid because we are in winter. So you are at a good time to buy I think. By all accounts it happens each year from what I have read on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkjmr Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I bought mine 1 month ago for £4700 in red with 110k miles, full gt pack, sat nav, full service history and all buttons on the steering wheel.Just to give you an idea on price for a high mileage one. It did have a clutch release bearing which wined but i got it fixed for £150 and tax for 6 months which was £150. Also it was from a car dealership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainman Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 To say that the difference is £500 and then that the only difference is that one sells quicker is contradicting yourself somewhat. Well no, not really - the fact is that one is more desireable than the other, and if supply swamps demand then hey presto - it's a buyers market. People might expect to pay a small premium for higher spec, but no one is going to add on the cost of what the option was when new. It's like saying 'my car might have aged 9 years, but my bose stero, etc is still brand new'. Lets be realistic. Also, Mega stated that the difference is about £1500 and you said: The extra it costs when new isn't reflected in second hand value and that is true of many cars. The GT pack was an extra £2500 when new, not £1500. Hey, those are Mega's figures, not mine. I didn't alude to how much the option costs when new. Yes, a GT pack car will sell quicker but that doesn't mean that a non GT car will sell for the same price but just take longer. Agreed. I've been on this site nearly six years and have seen lots of non GT cars take months to sell AND have their prices slashed just to get rid of them, so I would say that an extra £1500 is an accurate 'premium' for a GT car to reflect to the higher spec AND the fact that it will sell quicker upon resale. Well whilst the evidence of a non-GT car selling slower is anecdotal it would tend to support what I said previously. I know what ppl believe that premium should be for a GT car, but thats just a personal opinion. Don't blame me I don't make up the market values. I'm only going by the same valuations that everyone else uses, and in fact I'm using the one most likely to give a higher value because it is updated the least. I totally understand why ppl are upset at the resale value of their cars here, but if you were on my side of the fence you wouldn't be wanting to pay more than anyone else either. I'm not trying to devalue ppl's pride and joy, gawd knows I've lost thousands on motors over the years - you are preaching to the choir and I broadly sympathise with you. But going back to keeping this thread on topic - I am after a car, and I AM flexible on price if it's the right car. I'm also still considering the two cars where I've been in touch with ppl on the forums here. The fact is they are lovely examples but it just wouldn't make sense to buy only to butcher them - they're just too nice for that and I wouldn't dream of trying haggle them down any more as it would just be disrepectful. I am sensitive to the fact that forum cars are going to have a great deal of sentiment attached to them, and quite rightly so. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brumjohn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 For what its worth, this month CAP suggests a retail differential of between £550 and £700 on GT v non GT (£450 -550 at trade values), depending on year, mileage and plate. Out of interest the 4 values for an 03 53 GT with 100k are 3850 (Trade below av)., 4325(av), 4750 (clean) and £6750 retail. Not sure how that compares to Parkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I give up. No point debating with someone who only reads what they want to read and constantly contradicts themselves. Neil said the difference was about £1500, you said that you can't add the price of the GT pack when it was new to the price, I informed you that the GT was actually £2500 when new and you replied "I didn't alude to how much the option costs when new" which you clearly did.... Well whilst the evidence of a non-GT car selling slower is anecdotal Trust me it's not an anectdote, it what's happened with these cars since 2003. I totally understand why ppl are upset at the resale value of their cars here, I've not had a zed for 4 years so trust me it doesn't bother me and I don't think many people have got upset over the figures discussed, it's more your arrogant attitude and dissmissive retorts to people that have been watching these cars in particular being bought and sold for a long time, based on an archaic valuation formula that no one other than Arthur Daley pays any credence too. Good luck. I'm oot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 +1 on bad attitude, arrogance and knowing better than everyone, you've made quite an appearance here and people have now made up there minds on you. I'm out also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manphibian Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I hear BMW's are good cars.... Bet you would fit right in on the forum Just kidding (ish) Hope you find what you're looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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