Ex member, contemplating a 350z track car

[docwra]

You known mr lizard is a competition race driver sponsored by abbey?

 

I didnt TBH, if I did Id ask why he seems to be so insistent that the Z33 is a great track car when a lot of people with experience of plenty of others dont agree. Surely youve driven plenty of other stuff Mr Liz, do you really rate the 350 that highly? In fairly standard form?

 

If so Id be interested to know what you think its more fun than for future reference as well

[Chris`I]

No way in hell I would have a 350z as a track car unless I was sponsored. Long and short of it is its more expensive to run and slower/less fun than a lot of cars out there. If you have a special attachement to the Zed in question then thats fair enough (I would love to have kept my old one as a stripped out track car), but starting a fresh theres a lot more out there to consider. At the end of the day though its a personal choice as to why you want to run a specific car. I have a mate that runs an Evo VIII as a track car, and its f'in fast but to me its not as fun as a RWD car you can chuck about. Horses for courses and all that

[R800NER]

Thanks for the real mix of opinions guys. Really helpful and a bit of healthy debate is always good. Without meaning to sound like I'm ignoring advice and I am sure I would enjoy any of the suggested cars (MX5, MR2, etc), I'd still like to pursue the 350Z idea further.

 

To put things into perspective, it costs me a small fortune to keep the Z4M on the road (£460 tax, £400-900 for services etc). I live at home, with a high disposable income and cars are my hobby. I'm not mechanic, but my friend (post name - papercutout) is good with a spanner and we'd be working on it together. I just got a new Scirocco as a practical daily from work, so I only pay fuel which is about 45-55mpg, rather than 18mpg in the Z4M. I've maintained the Z4M regardless of cost for 2 years now and it is expensive, but I've had the cashflow to keep it looked after as a daily.

 

I appreciate that you can make a track car for a lot less with the MR2's etc, but the 350z is fun to drive and I would only be using it for a track day a month at most, possibly a trip to nurburgring and meets at most. I wouldn't be driving it daily either. I'm not looking to be the next stigg or set the fastest lap time in the world, but I am looking to have fun out there and deviate slightly from the norm..

 

Does this change anything or am I still mad to consider this little venture for fun..!

 

The cars I would consider, but won't limit myself too included:

350z

S2000

Classic Subaru

Evo

 

Cars which would make more sense and I'm not ruling out, but still aren't hugely exciting to me at the moment OR don't fit my requirements:

MR2

Westfield

BMW E36

VX220

 

Not sure if there are any others I should consider really.

[Husky]

No way in hell I would have a 350z as a track car unless I was sponsored. Long and short of it is its more expensive to run and slower/less fun than a lot of cars out there. If you have a special attachement to the Zed in question then thats fair enough (I would love to have kept my old one as a stripped out track car), but starting a fresh theres a lot more out there to consider. At the end of the day though its a personal choice as to why you want to run a specific car. I have a mate that runs an Evo VIII as a track car, and its f'in fast but to me its not as fun as a RWD car you can chuck about. Horses for courses and all that

^This 110%

[rtbiscuit]

The cars I would consider, but won't limit myself too included:

350z

S2000

Classic Subaru

Evo

 

having driven both the zed and the S2k i'd say the S2k is more fun to drive, and would make a better track car.

 

out of the 4 listed, i'd be tempted to say try the evo or scooby, ok so they aren't RWD but the grip on the 4WD is insane, and with the turbo's etc they are going to be a hoot to drive.

[ZMANALEX]

Hell yeah, follow your dreams mate, life is far to short for ifs, buts, or maybes.

 

You will have great fun with the Zed once you shed a bit of weight and get it set up for track properly.

 

Fuel, tyres and brakes will be your biggest ongoing outlay.

 

However once you upgrade the brakes then all you will require is a set of fresh pads periodically.

Get a spare set of Rays and stick a set of slicks on. (In stock at £240.00 for a set of 4)

 

Sorry, afraid I can't help you with the fuel

 

Alex.

[Chris`I]

I wouldnt go for anything 4WD if you fancy actually driving the car and steering with the rear. If you want point and squirt fine, but it wont be as fun or challenging as RWD. That for me rules our Scoobies and Evo's.

 

So from the list that leaves 350z and S2k. From what I've heard the S2k is great on track and not too expensive to run so if I was unbias I would lean towards that.

[docwra]

The cars I would consider, but won't limit myself too included:

350z

S2000

Classic Subaru

Evo

 

having driven both the zed and the S2k i'd say the S2k is more fun to drive, and would make a better track car.

 

out of the 4 listed, i'd be tempted to say try the evo or scooby, ok so they aren't RWD but the grip on the 4WD is insane, and with the turbo's etc they are going to be a hoot to drive.

 

Clearly similar experience along the way then, Im with this 100% Apart from M3's being the ultimate Ringmeisters, obviously

 

Evo's in my experience tend more to oversteer than Scoobs (again, experience, my brother has an FQ Evo8 and one of my Bezzy mates a Classic Impreza) and are more fun because of it, the S2K would be great fun too ....... and a friend of mine is selling this: http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=503765 - funnily enough he is the guy with the charged MX5 I mentioned earlier

[Neilp]

Hell yeah, follow your dreams mate, life is far to short for ifs, buts, or maybes.

 

You will have great fun with the Zed once you shed a bit of weight and get it set up for track properly.

 

Fuel, tyres and brakes will be your biggest ongoing outlay.

 

However once you upgrade the brakes then all you will require is a set of fresh pads periodically.

Get a spare set of Rays and stick a set of slicks on. (In stock at £240.00 for a set of 4)

 

Sorry, afraid I can't help you with the fuel

 

Alex.

+1,000,000

I have great fun in my car on track and although not the fastest I love every minute of it and also the look. Alot of the other cars mentioned are ugly as fook and even if faster id still feel inferior to the BMW m3's and merc slk's etc. in the zed I still hold my head high on track knowing I'm not driving a shed

[papercutout]

as for the comment about the zed being great on the road and the occasional track day i think that is entirely wrong personally, weak brakes and horrible suspension if left standard make the car feel horribly overweight and sluggish on a track compared to others.

 

Can you pm me your brake recommendations, I'd find it interesting to see what you consider the best options.

 

Redstuff pads are far too soft for the zed. I destroyed bluestuff ndx track pads in one session on the zed.

 

You wont lose much weight removing trim etc except with the seats. To lose weight start thinking carbon body parts, plastic windows etc. You will quickly see the bills mounting. And then for 5k a high mileage block... rag the arse out it for 2k miles and watch the bottom end fall apart and cost a few k to repair.

 

R888's are more than 800 a set for the zed.

 

Unless you have experience of the zed you wont realise how the weight contributes to so much wear and tear on brakes. Standard discs wont last long either with ebc on track

 

Okay, so Ferodo DS2500 - £177 p/set (demon tweeks)

 

 

I reckon you can lose at least 100k's with seats, inner trim, headlining, boot trim, plastic stuff, some of the centre tunnel and all sound deadening. Especially if you then remove aircon, fit a raceweight battery (£170, driftworks Braille battery) and cut excess brackets out from rear of car and engine bay. If you're really intense, you can single-skin the bonnet too, and possibly remove some metal from the boot. I suspect the front and rear bumper bars can be removed/trimmed too.

Do you not agree?

 

Don't believe you with the engine - especially after what others have said. Service car - oil, plugs, filters before 1st track day. Change oil every trackday or two from there on, and make sure it's correctly circulated every time you do an oil change (a mate made a mistake with this and killed his shells once, I'm never doing the same!), warm up and cool the engine down properly, then I suspect it'll last pretty well.

 

R888's are £190 p/tyre on Camskill upto 235 17" and 18". A 235 R888 = pretty frigging sticky!

 

Add the price of a pop charger and a 2nd hand exhaust (or £100 for say, longlife to create a decat pipe (because I have a mate who works for them).

 

 

 

 

I agree there're better track cars out there, but I know Booner, so it's more a case of picking something he likes, and is practical (to a degree).

[MrLizard]

You known mr lizard is a competition race driver sponsored by abbey?

 

I didnt TBH, if I did Id ask why he seems to be so insistent that the Z33 is a great track car when a lot of people with experience of plenty of others dont agree. Surely youve driven plenty of other stuff Mr Liz, do you really rate the 350 that highly? In fairly standard form?

 

If so Id be interested to know what you think its more fun than for future reference as well

 

I think i may have been misinterpreted on a couple of points here. I love my m8's clio williams track car, its a lot of fun and he has removed, well, the spare tyre and the back seats and put r888's on it. The car cost just over a grand and the rest has cost less than that... i am ignoring costs here really as i didnt see the OP mention it (he might have mentioned it, i dont know...)

 

i have driven plenty of cars and i am certainly of the opinion that it can be down to personal preference. I was trying to suggest that in standard form i didnt rate the 350z as a track car, however, that if you spend money on the car it comes into its own, the heavy chassis all of a sudden makes sense as does the v6... im not trying to take anything away from the other cars you have suggested, just that 'if' you spend the money and get the right parts the 350z is a rewarding beast that i, personally, have found difficult to get close too..

 

in standard form for me an s2000 just tries to do the same thing and fails, id rather have an NSX which i have been fortunate to drive or an Rx7 which i havent had a go in yet but have been overtaken by a few! mx5's i love

and personally i dont get much out of 4wd cars either on a smooth surface but i know a lot of people who do, and i own a scooby as a daily commuter, work that out!

 

Pure adrenalin i would say the Ariel Atom is probably my favourite non race track car, 300bhp in something that weighs 500kgs you cant beat, im sure it was the same reason that ZMANALEX suggest a caterham.

 

docwra i am positive that if you had a go in my 350z ignoring the cost that you would find it fun even if only equal to the others you have access too

[docwra]

Cheers Mr Liz, good balanced post there and if I ever have the opportunity Id love a go in your Zed, racecars in my experience are different gravy. Im sure youd find my S13 pretty entertaining as well, it doesnt like going straight for very long at a time

 

The point is that once youve spent the money on the 350Z to bring it up to spec you could have bought an NSX anyway, the same as £5K on my 306 would make it insanely good on track ......... if cost is no object then the RJN boys have shown that the 350 can be rather good but for me its nowhere near a first choice.

[Neilp]

as for the comment about the zed being great on the road and the occasional track day i think that is entirely wrong personally, weak brakes and horrible suspension if left standard make the car feel horribly overweight and sluggish on a track compared to others.

 

Can you pm me your brake recommendations, I'd find it interesting to see what you consider the best options.

 

Redstuff pads are far too soft for the zed. I destroyed bluestuff ndx track pads in one session on the zed.

 

You wont lose much weight removing trim etc except with the seats. To lose weight start thinking carbon body parts, plastic windows etc. You will quickly see the bills mounting. And then for 5k a high mileage block... rag the arse out it for 2k miles and watch the bottom end fall apart and cost a few k to repair.

 

R888's are more than 800 a set for the zed.

 

Unless you have experience of the zed you wont realise how the weight contributes to so much wear and tear on brakes. Standard discs wont last long either with ebc on track

 

Okay, so Ferodo DS2500 - £177 p/set (demon tweeks)

 

 

I reckon you can lose at least 100k's with seats, inner trim, headlining, boot trim, plastic stuff, some of the centre tunnel and all sound deadening. Especially if you then remove aircon, fit a raceweight battery (£170, driftworks Braille battery) and cut excess brackets out from rear of car and engine bay. If you're really intense, you can single-skin the bonnet too, and possibly remove some metal from the boot. I suspect the front and rear bumper bars can be removed/trimmed too.

Do you not agree?

 

Don't believe you with the engine - especially after what others have said. Service car - oil, plugs, filters before 1st track day. Change oil every trackday or two from there on, and make sure it's correctly circulated every time you do an oil change (a mate made a mistake with this and killed his shells once, I'm never doing the same!), warm up and cool the engine down properly, then I suspect it'll last pretty well.

 

R888's are £190 p/tyre on Camskill upto 235 17" and 18". A 235 R888 = pretty frigging sticky!

 

Add the price of a pop charger and a 2nd hand exhaust (or £100 for say, longlife to create a decat pipe (because I have a mate who works for them).

 

 

 

 

I agree there're better track cars out there, but I know Booner, so it's more a case of picking something he likes, and is practical (to a degree).

Go for it then

 

Remember r888 225/40/18 front, 245/40/18 rear.

The bonnet weights next to nothing anyways so I wouldn't bother with that as its aluminium. The plastics don't weight that much unless you remove the dash also.

 

I'll let you know the total weight loss of mines soon

[ZMANALEX]

I'll let you know the total weight loss of mines soon

 

And what about the car Neilly?

[ilogikal1]

The cars I would consider, but won't limit myself too included:

350z

S2000

Classic Subaru

Evo

 

Speaking as someone who currently still owns a classic Impreza, they tend to suffer a bit from understeer in standard form, but that can be overcome with thicker ARB, ALK and decent suspension. The early classics have shocking brakes, the later ones come with 4 pots up front which are better but still not wonderful for the track - upgrades are readily available but can get very pricey (can easily match the cost of the car in certain cases). The upside is you'd be lucky to find a standard classic these days; it'd actually be easier to find one with most, if not all, the track prep done already.

 

 

I wouldnt go for anything 4WD if you fancy actually driving the car and steering with the rear. If you want point and squirt fine, but it wont be as fun or challenging as RWD. That for me rules our Scoobies and Evo's.

 

Unless you go for a scoob with DCCD

[Neilp]

I'll let you know the total weight loss of mines soon

 

And what about the car Neilly?

Lol I've gained as much as the cars lost lmao. Im visiting you soon by the way

[rtbiscuit]

Apart from M3's being the ultimate Ringmeisters, obviously

 

 

have to agree,

 

they might not be pretty like a sports car, but for pure driving pleasure and ability the E39 m3 is a stonking car nearly bought one a while back. was still on my list until i saw the older M5 which has possibly swayed me as a future XKR replacement, as i have fallen in love with V8's

[Stew]

Apart from M3's being the ultimate Ringmeisters, obviously

 

 

have to agree,

 

they might not be pretty like a sports car, but for pure driving pleasure and ability the E39 m3 is a stonking car nearly bought one a while back. was still on my list until i saw the older M5 which has possibly swayed me as a future XKR replacement, as i have fallen in love with V8's

 

 

E39 is a 5 Series and the V8 M5. E36 M3s are cheap and quick!

[rtbiscuit]

i can never get the bmw number lettering right but you knew which one i meant yes the E36

 

and if i had deep pockets then as lizard said the NSX would be one of the cars at the top of my list.

[Tarmac@TarmacSportz]

Lotus Elise is a fun track car in budget..

 

I loved driving that

[rtbiscuit]

Lotus Elise is a fun track car in budget..

 

I loved driving that

 

elise and VX220 are pretty much track toys out of the box, need very little to get them track ready, and so agile, huge fun. when i did an airfield day in my zed i couldn't even come close to them on speed through the corners, i think i maxed out at 70 before spinning and the elises were getting 85 on a pretty much 90 degree turn without skidding or braking

[Stew]

An Elise is a great car for the job. Light, quick and immensely fun.

 

I still stand by thoughts of light = lower running costs.

 

 

For £5k you could have a sorted track car. For 7-8k you could have an awesome toy on track and road.

[Neilp]

An Elise is a great car for the job. Light, quick and immensely fun.

 

I still stand by thoughts of light = lower running costs.

 

 

For £5k you could have a sorted track car. For 7-8k you could have an awesome toy on track and road.

 

+1 lighter the car is, the longer the tyres and brakes will last in comparison to a heavier competitor

[Dblock]

Boxsters can be tracked straight away they are made for it.

[Chris`I]

When i did an airfield day in my zed i couldn't even come close to them on speed through the corners, i think i maxed out at 70 before spinning and the elises were getting 85 on a pretty much 90 degree turn without skidding or braking

Was great fun watching Ben get wound up in his Evo by the Elise's, they are just sooo much quicker! I think I managed about 75MPH round the corner, TBH I could have gone a smidge quicker. More impressive from the Elise was how quick they are around the handling track.