Ex member, contemplating a 350z track car

[R800NER]

Hi guys,

 

I used to own a Kuro GT4 with Nismo goodies, loved the car. I then upgraded to a Z4M Roadster, which is probably the best car I'll ever own and I've had it 2 years. However, I just got a nice new Scirocco for a company car which is really cheap to run and therefore I barely use my Z4M - especially in this weather!

 

I'm contemplating selling up my Z4M and sticking half the earnings into my house deposit fund, the rest I am thinking of buying a track car with as a project for next year.

 

I'm looking for advice on using a 350z as a track car. I am thinking of spending towards the bottom of the market, then stripping it out. Sticking in racing seats, modding the suspension etc and putting some decent tyres on it. I expect to use it a few times a month for track days, meets, nurburg and drifting - but still being road legal. I guess the concern is that I'll hit a dead end in terms of increase in power, as the tuning route is quite narrow unless I supercharge. So I am looking for threads or advice from any members who currently do this.

 

I remember back to a meet at Silverstone 3 years ago where I think MrLizard had just stripped a black 350z, but can't remember how much weight they shaved?

 

I do miss this place too

[ds2000]

Generally power is overrated for trackdays; you can have as much fun in a stripped out Caterfield as a 700hp monster.

 

If you went to town on the Zed and got a hundred or so kilo's out of her, had a good braking and suspension setup you'd transform the car and find your limits before the Zeds.

 

I know people that still use old DC2's and Preludes on track and still absolutely love them and because they can drive they often leave the turbo nutter brigade for dead.

[R800NER]

Yep, my aim was to see roughly how much weight I could lose on a Zed and handling (tyres, suspension). Then the next stage would be swapping parts for lighter parts. Then I would be looking to add exhaust, intake, plenum and remap (unless any new mods are on the scene...it's been a while?).

 

Anyone else out there with a track Zed?

[Stew]

Quite a few have track mods and are regular track dayers.

 

Personally, I'd buy a cheap MX5 to see if you enjoy it and weigh up costs. If you already track and know the costs etc then I'd look at a Seven style car.

 

Just my 2pence worth.

[AK350Z]

Welcome back mate, Zed is obviously fine for track use, but if you are going to be a regular track dayer it might be better to get something a lot lighter in the first place. Of course if you love the Zed then just be prepared for the costs associated with tracking a heavy car.

 

Look in the projects area for a couple of examples.

[rabbitstew]

Looking at the prices Z4M`s are worth, I really think you will struggle to have much cash left if you sold it to buy a zed and prepared it properly for track days. It costs more than you think!

 

Like others have said, there are much cheaper options, like the mx5 route - you could get one of them for £1500 or less, and have it on the track for fraction of what buying an cheap 350z (cheap usually means old, high mileage, maybe issues etc.).

 

Even better, id buy a car someone else has already spent the time & money on track preparing. A lot of people start of with something like an mx5 or whatever, run it for a couple of years, love it track daying and then move up to something else, selling their old car off.

 

That way you will have some cash to stick in your house deposit fund, and have a track car.

[Vik54]

Mods - do you think this is another wee bit of evidence of the need for a trackdays / motorsport subforum? http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56081

 

R8OONER is just another example of folk looking for specific advice on track related zed info and he will have to go looking in 'projects' or build threads for info, then 'trackdays' for info on trackdays and then in separate trader areas for track orientated parts.

 

Project and build threads don't often have 'track car' in their titles so folks will find it difficult to find them. I think at the very minimum we would all benefit from having separate sections for modifications - i.e. mods for showcars and mods for track

[Neilp]

I'm with Victoria on this one^^^^

 

It's about how much you can afford to spend and where to stop. I spent short of 20k on the car and probs including labour etc about 10-15k on top and still not finished. It's a never ending process. Set out how much you can spend and do what you can for that money. Remember how much fuel the zed uses. On track I rarely see more than 100miles out a tank of v power

[ds2000]

 

Personally, I'd buy a cheap MX5 to see if you enjoy it and weigh up costs. If you already track and know the costs etc then I'd look at a Seven style car.

 

Just my 2pence worth.

 

I agree with that, however I'd say use an S2000, infinitely better car and has grunt that MX5 lacks.

[Vik54]

I'm with Victoria on this one^^^^

 

It's about how much you can afford to spend and where to stop. I spent short of 20k on the car and probs including labour etc about 10-15k on top and still not finished. It's a never ending process. Set out how much you can spend and do what you can for that money. Remember how much fuel the zed uses. On track I rarely see more than 100miles out a tank of v power

 

who gave you permission to use my 'Sunday' name?

[rtbiscuit]

far better cars out there for less money that will be more competant than the zed. as she's not an out and out sports car to start with you'll need to spend a big wodge getting her up to spec. then add in the fact that she's a fat girl and she'll hammer your consumables.

 

S2000 would be my first choice, there are some leggy ones out there going for cheap cash these days not disimiliar to the zed,

 

also some good porsche boxsters out there for small cash. and thats got the engine in the right place (the middle).

 

MR2 Roadster made a good track weapon as well

[Lexx]

Mods - do you think this is another wee bit of evidence of the need for a trackdays / motorsport subforum? http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56081

 

R8OONER is just another example of folk looking for specific advice on track related zed info and he will have to go looking in 'projects' or build threads for info, then 'trackdays' for info on trackdays and then in separate trader areas for track orientated parts.

 

But if we created a motorsports forum, then people looking for info on build threads/projects would have to go looking in Members Build Projects, and then in Motorsport for those kind of builds.

 

It is being discussed by the team though.

[docwra]

With others really, theres a lot of cars Id be looking at before a Zed - MX5, S2K, 200SX, GTI-6 (honest)

 

The weight is always going to be an issue, and ergo so will the lack of power - Ive got a 200SX driftcar with top spec suspension, diff, wheels, mapping etc., knocking on 400hp and all told it cost me about £4500, my MR2 roadster I want to track as standard its that much fun

 

If you love the Zed then go for it, Ill follow the thread avidly, but I think youll get a lot more bang for your buck looking elsewhere.

[rtbiscuit]

With others really, theres a lot of cars Id be looking at before a Zed - MX5, S2K, 200SX, GTI-6 (honest)

 

The weight is always going to be an issue, and ergo so will the lack of power - Ive got a 200SX driftcar with top spec suspension, diff, wheels, mapping etc., knocking on 400hp and all told it cost me about £4500, my MR2 roadster I want to track as standard its that much fun

 

If you love the Zed then go for it, Ill follow the thread avidly, but I think youll get a lot more bang for your buck looking elsewhere.

 

I've owned a GTi6 and the MR2 Roadster and the S2k all have been emensly fun cars to drive, and hugly rewarding.

 

the GTi6 is an awsome little stealth car, looks standard but goes like stink, and weighs sod all. the Mr2 only has 140 bhp, but it weighs so little it could out perform many bigger cars expecially in the corners, and the S2k was just a higher powered more refined version.

[planetsurfer2]

ZMANALEX gave me the following advice. If you want a track car get a Caterham.

Maybe I should have listened to him

[MWTech]

rx7...

 

or mx5 with a 13b...

[brillomaster]

mr2 import turbo... bought for peanuts, 220hp in a very light car!

 

or again, an s2000, lots of cheaper early examples and you'd never tire of 9000rpm on a track (but conversly would very quickly tire of 9000rpm on the road!)

 

personally i'd stay away from an mx5... just not enough go! lovely handling car, great to drive, but just doesnt quite go fast enough! maybe if you find one with a turbo on it would be ok.

 

but back on topic, if you do track a 350Z be prepared for very high running costs - 18" tyres are not cheap and you will wear through sets regularly, similar story for brakes.

[papercutout]

I want to get involved in this, because I'm the one who put the idea of the 350Z in his head! I suggested the above but got the answer "only if it has a V8 in", and "it's too drifty".

 

I love my RX7 personally, but can kind of understand where he's coming from with the V8 - rotary = witchcraft to most people. I corrected him on the 2nd part though - they're fantastic grip cars!

 

 

 

I looked at it like - MX5 = great fun, but he'd not be happy unless it's turbo'd or supercharged.

 

S2000 - I can't be arsed to work on it with him. Doesn't really inspire me, unless it's got FI.

 

200SX - choice of drifters, hard to find nice ones around now (I'd know, I can and do drift, but not a 200sx)

 

Caterham etc - overpriced. He is tempted by a megablade. The problem in my eyes would be storing it, he'd need full weather gear. Otherwise a very sound idea, and very likely route.

 

 

350Z - £5000-£5500.

Bucket seats and subframes 2nd hand, £250 (I'm a bargain hunter and within current FIA spec not needed)

Stripped out - flog everything back to you guys cheap to make some money! (seats, carpet, trim, headlining, boot lining, rear strutbrace cover, centre console, door cards etc etc.)

HSD coilovers - £775

Toyo R888's or similar - £800 p/set

Redstuff pads, all round - £130

Oil - toooooo much!

 

 

That sounds reasonable, tell me what I'm missing? (besides track time and fuel)

[Stew]

The tyres, pads and discs are very frequent in a Zed on track.

[Keyser]

...........................

 

350Z - £5000-£5500.

Bucket seats and subframes 2nd hand, £250 (I'm a bargain hunter and within current FIA spec not needed)

Stripped out - flog everything back to you guys cheap to make some money! (seats, carpet, trim, headlining, boot lining, rear strutbrace cover, centre console, door cards etc etc.)

HSD coilovers - £775

Toyo R888's or similar - £800 p/set

Redstuff pads, all round - £130

Oil - toooooo much!

 

 

 

 

Makes me feel like I may have overspent a bit

[Neilp]

I want to get involved in this, because I'm the one who put the idea of the 350Z in his head! I suggested the above but got the answer "only if it has a V8 in", and "it's too drifty".

 

I love my RX7 personally, but can kind of understand where he's coming from with the V8 - rotary = witchcraft to most people. I corrected him on the 2nd part though - they're fantastic grip cars!

 

 

 

I looked at it like - MX5 = great fun, but he'd not be happy unless it's turbo'd or supercharged.

 

S2000 - I can't be arsed to work on it with him. Doesn't really inspire me, unless it's got FI.

 

200SX - choice of drifters, hard to find nice ones around now (I'd know, I can and do drift, but not a 200sx)

 

Caterham etc - overpriced. He is tempted by a megablade. The problem in my eyes would be storing it, he'd need full weather gear. Otherwise a very sound idea, and very likely route.

 

 

350Z - £5000-£5500.

Bucket seats and subframes 2nd hand, £250 (I'm a bargain hunter and within current FIA spec not needed)

Stripped out - flog everything back to you guys cheap to make some money! (seats, carpet, trim, headlining, boot lining, rear strutbrace cover, centre console, door cards etc etc.)

HSD coilovers - £775

Toyo R888's or similar - £800 p/set

Redstuff pads, all round - £130

Oil - toooooo much!

 

 

That sounds reasonable, tell me what I'm missing? (besides track time and fuel)

Redstuff pads are far too soft for the zed. I destroyed bluestuff ndx track pads in one session on the zed.

 

You wont lose much weight removing trim etc except with the seats. To lose weight start thinking carbon body parts, plastic windows etc. You will quickly see the bills mounting. And then for 5k a high mileage block... rag the arse out it for 2k miles and watch the bottom end fall apart and cost a few k to repair.

 

R888's are more than 800 a set for the zed.

 

Unless you have experience of the zed you wont realise how the weight contributes to so much wear and tear on brakes. Standard discs wont last long either with ebc on track

[Neilp]

...........................

 

350Z - £5000-£5500.

Bucket seats and subframes 2nd hand, £250 (I'm a bargain hunter and within current FIA spec not needed)

Stripped out - flog everything back to you guys cheap to make some money! (seats, carpet, trim, headlining, boot lining, rear strutbrace cover, centre console, door cards etc etc.)

HSD coilovers - £775

Toyo R888's or similar - £800 p/set

Redstuff pads, all round - £130

Oil - toooooo much!

 

 

 

+1

Makes me feel like I may have overspent a bit

[rtbiscuit]

Redstuff pads are far too soft for the zed. I destroyed bluestuff ndx track pads in one session on the zed.

 

agreed minimum requirement on the zed from EBC would be yellow stuff if not blue. as for destroying pads in 1 track session. i would say thats down to driving style not so much the pads. the same pads might last longer with a different driver. greekman has a hard driving style as well as do a couple of others, and because of this require spending even more on braking to find kit that best suits their style.

 

You wont lose much weight removing trim etc except with the seats. To lose weight start thinking carbon body parts, plastic windows etc. You will quickly see the bills mounting. And then for 5k a high mileage block... rag the arse out it for 2k miles and watch the bottom end fall apart and cost a few k to repair.

agreed on the weight, the heaviest parts are the doors, and boot. but blowing the bottom end out of a high mileage isn't true. theres no evidence that just because its high mileage its going to blow up. as long as it has good compression when you start with it, then the engine should be good for plenty more driving. thats the advantage of big engines, at about 100k they are just about worn in and good for another 150k easy. maintance is the key.

R888's are more than 800 a set for the zed.

 

Unless you have experience of the zed you wont realise how the weight contributes to so much wear and tear on brakes. Standard discs wont last long either with ebc on trackif your driving style is right you can make a set of DBA's and some good pads last several track sessions if you have a harsh style or running alot more power than standard then possibly a BBK is needed

[Neilp]

I agree with almost everything but if stripping a car out for track use then pretty sure its gonna have its balls ripped in.

The bottom end will have wear. Any car travelling on WOT for extended period will show more wear and run a higher risk of failure. This has been demonstrable on lower mileage engines which have failed just because of knock, by not using correct Ron fuel. The chances are that a higher mileage engine will fail before a lower purely due to wear and tear and for 5k your not going to get much unless from a cat c/d car.

 

The heat got to the calipers and caused flex and the bluestuff wore uneven, this is the reason the gtr brakes has a brace bolt through the middle of the caliper. I run yellowstuffs all year round and they're great but fade after 6-7laps. Bluestuff never faded at all but wore very uneven.

 

Cooling ducts would help massively to help prolong life.

 

Personally if I had 8k to buy a track car id be looking at a clio 182 and spend some cash caging it and stripping, or an older lotus Elise which is almost track ready.

 

Redstuff pads are far too soft for the zed. I destroyed bluestuff ndx track pads in one session on the zed.

 

agreed minimum requirement on the zed from EBC would be yellow stuff if not blue. as for destroying pads in 1 track session. i would say thats down to driving style not so much the pads. the same pads might last longer with a different driver. greekman has a hard driving style as well as do a couple of others, and because of this require spending even more on braking to find kit that best suits their style.

 

You wont lose much weight removing trim etc except with the seats. To lose weight start thinking carbon body parts, plastic windows etc. You will quickly see the bills mounting. And then for 5k a high mileage block... rag the arse out it for 2k miles and watch the bottom end fall apart and cost a few k to repair.

agreed on the weight, the heaviest parts are the doors, and boot. but blowing the bottom end out of a high mileage isn't true. theres no evidence that just because its high mileage its going to blow up. as long as it has good compression when you start with it, then the engine should be good for plenty more driving. thats the advantage of big engines, at about 100k they are just about worn in and good for another 150k easy. maintance is the key.

R888's are more than 800 a set for the zed.

 

Unless you have experience of the zed you wont realise how the weight contributes to so much wear and tear on brakes. Standard discs wont last long either with ebc on trackif your driving style is right you can make a set of DBA's and some good pads last several track sessions if you have a harsh style or running alot more power than standard then possibly a BBK is needed

[rtbiscuit]

personally if i was to get a track car

 

MR2 Roadster £2000 (140 bhp in a car that weighs 996kg) and its mid engined

turbo upgrade £2000 (pushes bhp to 200-250 bhp in a car that then weighs 1010

 

tyres are 16" so dirt cheap for anyhting from 888's to yoko's what ever you want and plenty to choose from with popular tyre size

 

you could stiffen the chassis with upgrades from £200 - £1000 makes a big difference for track days, but even in standard form it handles well

 

the engines in the middle so the balance is supurb, and so easy to work on, i could change the manifold on it in under an hour, and dropping the engine out takes very little.

 

you can even upgrade the mr2 to a 2zz engine or a V6, and i believe someones even squeezed a V8 in the back as well but this does tend to throw the handling with all that extra weight.

 

parts are dirt cheap, and wear and tear on the vehicle is low becuase the weight is. and it revs to 8.5k

 

its RWD you can get cages and or hard tops for them if you wanted it more coupe esque

 

and if turbo'd etc will devaste most other things on the track. its as close to a lotus elise as you'll get for about half the price. the setup is so good lotus use the 1zz and the 2zz in their cars as well as sc and turbo'd version.