Rubber Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 A friend of mine has decats on his Focus RS and we were discussing the legality of it... So, he changes them out for an MOT - fine, no issues there. But if you were to have an accident would the insurance company be able to claim that your car was not "road legal" and so get out of paying out? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 The answer is yes, unless you have told them about it. Technically they could be seen as a performance modification and they could say this invalidates your insurance. Depending on which insurance company he is with, he may as well tell them he has changed the exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zugara Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Any mod should reported to the insurance company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Plus most insurers won't insure them as they are not 'road legal' you would have to be pretty unlucky but it's a performance mod so insurers would wriggle out of a claim if they investigated your car. Not a risk I would personally take HFCs all the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Decats themselves are road legal but fitting them will make your car unlikely to pass a MOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John tarantula Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 when I've had them on previous cars I've just insured them as part of an 'aftermarket exhaust' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Decats themselves are road legal but fitting them will make your car unlikely to pass a MOT. So if it doesn't pass an MOT its not road legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Decats themselves are road legal but fitting them will make your car unlikely to pass a MOT. So if it doesn't pass an MOT its not road legal Correct. But cars have been known to pass an MOT with a decat - mine passed its MOT for 4 years running with a decat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Decats themselves are road legal but fitting them will make your car unlikely to pass a MOT. So if it doesn't pass an MOT its not road legal Correct. But cars have been known to pass an MOT with a decat - mine passed its MOT for 4 years running with a decat I think that's luck rather than legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightRacer Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Decats themselves are road legal but fitting them will make your car unlikely to pass a MOT. So if it doesn't pass an MOT its not road legal Not passing an MOT and not being road legal are 2 different things. if your car fails the MOT then its not classed as roadworthy. This doesn't make the decats illegal. There is no law that I know of that requires a road going car to have a cat fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Decats themselves are road legal but fitting them will make your car unlikely to pass a MOT. So if it doesn't pass an MOT its not road legal Correct. But cars have been known to pass an MOT with a decat - mine passed its MOT for 4 years running with a decat I think that's luck rather than legal No luck involved at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Decats themselves are road legal but fitting them will make your car unlikely to pass a MOT. So if it doesn't pass an MOT its not road legal Not passing an MOT and not being road legal are 2 different things. if your car fails the MOT then its not classed as roadworthy. This doesn't make the decats illegal. There is no law that I know of that requires a road going car to have a cat fitted. Spot-on, and well put I'd be more worried about not declaring decats than I would be if I had an accident with them on after telling the insurer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Decats themselves are road legal but fitting them will make your car unlikely to pass a MOT. So if it doesn't pass an MOT its not road legal Not passing an MOT and not being road legal are 2 different things. if your car fails the MOT then its not classed as roadworthy. This doesn't make the decats illegal. There is no law that I know of that requires a road going car to have a cat fitted. there was a law bought in that all cars made after "I think 2001" or round that time that all cars must be fitted with a Cat. I did look into it a few weeks back due to putting them on the website, I uploaded some this week and have put 'not for road use' on them. It is a grey area but if you were to be pulled by Vosa for an inspection and you had decats then you would be fined and ordered to remove them within 14 days. So... It's illegal to drive a car without a valid MOT and Decats won't pass an MOT. So put it this way, driving a car with decats isn't road legal. Like I say it's up to the end user but I personally wouldn't take the risk, although tons do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightRacer Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'll agree its a grey area alright! I've seen this 2001 law banded about several times, I think its around the same time that cars went to OBD2. this was when they began recording emissions too. its also worth reading the MOT manual aswell because it can be interpretted both ways about the requirement to have a CAT fitted. its usually that a car cannot pass the emissions test with no CAT fitted, rather than the physical lack of unit fitted. I'll have to find out about my import too as they usually come under a generic emissions test at MOT and don't require a CAT to pass the rather lapse test requirement unlike their UK counterparts. There is also a funny thing with motorbikes where they are required to meet emissions regulations at time of manufacture but are then not tested for emmisions at MOT and as such there is not check for a fitted CAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightRacer Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 have a look at this. it looks like they are proposing to check for missing CATS from next year (article dated may this year). I still believe its not actually part of the test right now, only that you must meet emissions for the year of your car. http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M ... 202011.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 have a look at this. it looks like they are proposing to check for missing CATS from next year (article dated may this year). I still believe its not actually part of the test right now, only that you must meet emissions for the year of your car. http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M ... 202011.pdf Interesting.... its definately a grey area.. Like some do its probably worth just declaring it as an exhaust mod and switching over at MOT time if you can be bothered to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Im pretty sure it was all cars built after 1993 which had a cat fitted from new had to have one for its MOT when I looked into it last. I know when I had a mini cooper, it was a 1990 and whilst it came with a cat, it was perfectly legal for me to throw it away and the MOT man was happy. MOT`s are just a test to see if a car is road legal at that moment in time. Its no offense at all not to have a cat on a car and drive it about. So, (like loads of owners), you can put the cats on for the mot, then take them off afterwards and be perfectly legal. In fact you could MOT your car, the next day swap the engine for a jet engine with no exhaust and drive that about for 12 months and your MOT will still be valid. Of course, other factors such as having a loud exhaust over a certain dB could get you done for noise polution etc.. Or if your car is chucking out tons of black smoke then the police can do you for that etc... As a side note if you have a diesel, there is no requirement to have a cat (or particle filter) fitted, and you can happily throw it away and be fine for your MOT`s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Im pretty sure it was all cars built after 1993 which had a cat fitted from new had to have one for its MOT when I looked into it last. I know when I had a mini cooper, it was a 1990 and whilst it came with a cat, it was perfectly legal for me to throw it away and the MOT man was happy. MOT`s are just a test to see if a car is road legal at that moment in time. Its no offense at all not to have a cat on a car and drive it about. So, (like loads of owners), you can put the cats on for the mot, then take them off afterwards and be perfectly legal. In fact you could MOT your car, the next day swap the engine for a jet engine with no exhaust and drive that about for 12 months and your MOT will still be valid. Of course, other factors such as having a loud exhaust over a certain dB could get you done for noise polution etc.. Or if your car is chucking out tons of black smoke then the police can do you for that etc... As a side note if you have a diesel, there is no requirement to have a cat (or particle filter) fitted, and you can happily throw it away and be fine for your MOT`s. Not doubting you at all but where have you quoted this from ? I want to be sure so I can give customers the correct info... Its just that I read a link saying that if VOSA did a side of the road inspection of your vehicle and found you had decats instead of cats then you would get a £60 on the spot fine and ordered to remove within 14 days or the fine would increase... Im pretty sure that was off a proper VOSA site but can't remember. If they were a perfectly fine mod then why do suppliers mark them for off road use only...?? Plus, if you were to try telling an insurance company that you had put decats on and explained what they did I don't think they would insure you.. Maybe an insurance person can comment on that though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'd rather fecking DERV owners would keep their particulate filters in than be covered in thick black smoke when behind them The amount of BMWs I've seen chucking out smoke these days, I think they've stopped doing them with the filter to save on costs On the MOT question, we had a '92 Clio with cats that failed the MOT initially until the chap realised it was old enough (just) to not need the cats. So it was '92/'93 when the regs came in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 in 1993 it was a legal requirement that all cars manufactured from that point on came fitted with a catalytic converter, so this was more down to the manufacturers than the owners, but if you bought a car back then that didn't have one and it was manufactured that year then you needed to have it. as a helpful pointer the people at milltek are pretty keyed up here is a link to their website FAQ's read the one on legal stuff http://www.millteksport.com/exhaust.faqs.cfm Q. Is it legal to de-cat my car? A. De-catting a car in the UK registered after 1993 is illegal as it will fail an emissions check. Q. What alternative do I have to a de-cat? A. A Hi-Flow cat will increase flow by as much as 30% over the original manufacturers unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 in 1993 it was a legal requirement that all cars manufactured from that point on came fitted with a catalytic converter, so this was more down to the manufacturers than the owners, but if you bought a car back then that didn't have one and it was manufactured that year then you needed to have it. as a helpful pointer the people at milltek are pretty keyed up here is a link to their website FAQ's read the one on legal stuff http://www.millteksport.com/exhaust.faqs.cfm Q. Is it legal to de-cat my car? A. De-catting a car in the UK registered after 1993 is illegal as it will fail an emissions check. Q. What alternative do I have to a de-cat? A. A Hi-Flow cat will increase flow by as much as 30% over the original manufacturers unit. As I thought... Thanks Biscuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Not doubting you at all but where have you quoted this from ? I want to be sure so I can give customers the correct info... Its just that I read a link saying that if VOSA did a side of the road inspection of your vehicle and found you had decats instead of cats then you would get a £60 on the spot fine and ordered to remove within 14 days or the fine would increase... Im pretty sure that was off a proper VOSA site but can't remember. If they were a perfectly fine mod then why do suppliers mark them for off road use only...?? Plus, if you were to try telling an insurance company that you had put decats on and explained what they did I don't think they would insure you.. Maybe an insurance person can comment on that though.. Its all from my memory from when I looked into it before. Theres all sorts of stuff on google about this last time I looked. The thing with VOSA testing your car on the roadside is more to do with emmisions rather than cats. So, even if you had cats and your car was pumping out smoke you`d still get a fine. Do suppliers mark them for off road use only? I know in some countries it is illegal to remove cats, so maybe they want to cover their backs for that. I also know the "not for road use" which akropovic put on my titanium race exhaust system for my R1 was only put on there because it made it louder than a certain dB reading so they needed to cover their backs on that too. I'd rather fecking DERV owners would keep their particulate filters in than be covered in thick black smoke when behind them The amount of BMWs I've seen chucking out smoke these days, I think they've stopped doing them with the filter to save on costs Thats more to do with the engine fueling rather than the particle filter. Ive noticed no end of audi`s and beemer diesels kicking out black smoke, and yet on my VW golf it made no difference in that area when I replaced the cat with a bit of old pipe. (only reason I did it was cos the old cat fell apart and I couldnt afford the cost of a new one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 im really confused with the dates although i appreciate after a certain year a car must have cats...my 1997 civic coupe had cats and one failed...therefore failing m.o.t this was in 2003 i swapped whole system and decatted it also, passed every year till 2007/8 were i only failed because they changed emission output and failed on that...not because i didnt have a cat! Threw my cat away couldnt find another so i bought a zed instead...but i wonder if you passed the emisions test and had no cat would you still fail??its unlikely now you would pass test but if you did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarmac@TarmacSportz Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Do suppliers mark them for off road use only? Mine do, some over here don't... I have done on the website, didn't want to take any risks in this age of blame culture and lawsuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The thing with VOSA testing your car on the roadside is more to do with emmisions rather than cats. So, even if you had cats and your car was pumping out smoke you`d still get a fine. It's the cats that control the emmisions for the most part. VOSA will give you 7 days IIRC, to have any emmision defect fixed and then re-checked, so if you're running de-cats, you'll need them changed, or if not, it may just be a fuelling problem or something more serious. If it's found that you have no cat at all on a roadside check, then you will be fined and can have your car crushed in extreme circumstances (such as being caught out multiple times). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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