Hennett Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Hi everyone I did my first track day last week and absolutely loved it. Now I want to go a LOT more often A few things are bugging me however and I was wondering how most other (experienced) people tend to do track days in their car. My main concern is tyres. I have a brand new set of tyres on my car and don't really want to bugger them on the track. I spoke to someone at the track and they said they buy part worns to save on cost. I've had a think about this and I don't see how it's any cheaper as you buy a worn set (approx 4mm tread) for about 140-150 and you need to also pay a garage 50 quid to change the tyres over before and after the track day. Another concern is the rate I will wear brakes out. I am soon going to buy some front PF discs, DBA 4000 rears and PF 01 and 97 pads from ZMANALEX (who is a very helpful guy if you need anything ). So my questions are: 1. What is a cost effective way of doing track days in regards to tyres and do most people buy part worns for track use only? 2. How many times on a track am I likely to get out of 4mm tread? 3. How many track days will I get out of the above brake set up before things need replacing (I know this is subjective but a rough guide would do) Thanks all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 1. Driving style and track surface is the only way to manage tyre consumption unfortunately. If you're nice and smooth and don't spend every corner sideways then you'll use less rubber, just as you would on the road. The only caveat with that is that track days are a great time to explore the limits of your car in relative safety, which means that sliding around to an extent is a given! You'll also get far more tyre wear (3x to 10x est) on an abrasive surface on an airfield like Elvington than you will on a proper track like Silverstone. There is also the issue of what tyres you're using. A set of 452 or T1R will overheat and melt within a few laps on track so you'll kill those off pretty quickly, whereas something like the RE050A are much harder wearing (and also give you more grip too). Stuff like the R888s in the harder compounds give you the most grip which I've found also gives you the least tyre wear, as you don't slip so much. Trouble is they're £800 all round and you only get 4mm on the tyre to start with, so it's swings and roundabout with those. Tyre pressures are also critical, as underinflation leads to the shoulders wearing and overinflation leads to the middle going bald, so it's important to keep that in mind too. 2. No way to tell without more information. I could kill a set 4mm set off in one session (and have!) let alone one day, but I could also make them last 2-3 days if I was careful. 3. I had an almost identical setup and after 15K on the road + 6 ish trackdays I had more meat on them than I ever thought I would. Granted I'm not a heavy braker on track anyway, but I would've expected mine to have done that again easily. One thing I will say is that you're getting IMHO the best brake setup for the car available which so many people forget in aim of chasing 2-3bhp, so well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Take your pick Hennett viewtopic.php?f=157&t=54730 viewtopic.php?f=157&t=49368 viewtopic.php?f=157&t=38998 Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brillomaster Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 firstly the zed is going to be an expensive car to track - heavy car, which will be hard on tyres and brakes, and then large 18" tyres to buy. If you want to do trackdays regularly theres a reaqson why there are a lot of caterhams/elises - light cars are a lot lighter on tyres and brakes, and small 14/15/16" tyres are considerably less to buy. However, if you do track a zed (and i intend to) a second set of wheels is a must, and change them on the day - that way you have no problems with having illegal tread for the drive home. Also, part worns are the way forward - for rears especially in a standard size thetreadshop seems to be great for part worns - when i do mine im going to put some cheapo nasty ones on the back and assuming its not raining, just be going sideways everywhere... worked a treat with my old beemer at Blyton park, best day out ive had in ages when the car was so tail happy it was powersliding everywhere - absolute riot. the tread shop also, look for track days with someone like minttyres present - they change tyres for a fiver, and can provide 'drift' tyres for as little as £2.50 - so even if you go through a few each day its still well worth it. mint tyres hope this helps! Wherabouts you based by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 get some brake ducts made up to save on the pads and discs, otherwise youll chew through the brakes very quickly... as for tires, I'm pondering about this myself, rally tyres for wet conditions and slicks for dry... would really mean trailer and family car down to track with Z on the back and the tyres ready to be swapped during the session. Was thinking on getting 888's and use them for road and track but it's a bit of a waste for the road since they're no good in the wet. Let me know what route you go down and how it works out for you Zman, you must have a big place to store all them tyres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hennett Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Thanks for your replies guys. I have today been thinking of doing just that! Buying a second set of rims for track use only so I can swap them on and off at the track. Any recommendations for cheap alloys for track use? Any particular size? Don't know what I'll do about transport yet though, think I'll struggle fitting them on the passenger seat Those slicks look awesome so I may give those a try once I've sorted the new wheels. I'll let you know how I get on when I'm decided... Yes I am starting to get the feeling this is going to get expensive, but I love my car and don't care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Best with 18" Rays Strong and light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hennett Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Would love to but I think the rays will be quite expensive. ...and forgot to say brillomaster, I live in Chelmsford, Essex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 £300-£500 for a set of OEM Rays depending on condition, you'll struggle to get anything better for less. Definitely the way to go, that's what I did with my second set of wheels for track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Would love to but I think the rays will be quite expensive. ...and forgot to say brillomaster, I live in Chelmsford, Essex. A set of Rays for track use will not be expensive. They are the ideal wheel for your proposed use, strong, light, correct fitment, correct offset, minimum unsprung weight etc.etc.etc. With respect, if you think that a set of "scabby" Rays for track use are expensive then perhaps track time is not for you mate as other items will rape your wallet Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomS Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 How easy would 4 tyres fit in the zed? Just thinking about a track day in January but would prefer just taking 4 tyres than 4 wheels with tyres. That's if there are tyre fitters at Oulton Park, could swap them over when I'm there then back again afterwards to be road legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MITZ@CougarStore Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 How easy would 4 tyres fit in the zed? Just thinking about a track day in January but would prefer just taking 4 tyres than 4 wheels with tyres. That's if there are tyre fitters at Oulton Park, could swap them over when I'm there then back again afterwards to be road legal. Tom, as achieved by another member, wheels with tyres, with the fourth sitting in the boot… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Would love to but I think the rays will be quite expensive. ...and forgot to say brillomaster, I live in Chelmsford, Essex. A set of Rays for track use will not be expensive. They are the ideal wheel for your proposed use, strong, light, correct fitment, correct offset, minimum unsprung weight etc.etc.etc. With respect, if you think that a set of "scabby" Rays for track use are expensive then perhaps track time is not for you mate as other items will rape your wallet Alex +1 everything becomes expensive when tracking and from experience never mix tyres in track as in the wet the car will handle like crap. Driving with a set of wheels in the car is silly. You can't see out the rear window and can't see your passenger side mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Would love to but I think the rays will be quite expensive. ...and forgot to say brillomaster, I live in Chelmsford, Essex. A set of Rays for track use will not be expensive. They are the ideal wheel for your proposed use, strong, light, correct fitment, correct offset, minimum unsprung weight etc.etc.etc. With respect, if you think that a set of "scabby" Rays for track use are expensive then perhaps track time is not for you mate as other items will rape your wallet Alex was thinking the last bit too, RAY's would be a one off (hopefully). Consumables will eat up the budget (if you have one). rubber > depends on your driving style and how much you push it, probably not to bad at the start but you will start pushing limits once you get used to track driving brakes > pads,discs > again on driving style (and if you can keep them a bit cooler so you dont melt them!) Petrol <<< Mine drinks the juice on track Track cost < to actually attend More then likely you'll start modifiying the car to be better suited for track... = ££££ I do think rays and another set of wheels with one for dry conditions and one for wet is the way to go and have another set for daily driving. RACE spec pads that you can swap before track would be the best I think too and then just put some less agressive pads on for daily use. Or get a tow bar on the Z and buy another car (smaller) for track use I'll keep a track on spending for 2012 and post it up. My current pads have survived one track use so far (and tyres, but they wont last on a dry session) What in your own mind do you think you'll be spending PER track session? My mind it's (no less then, counting the consumables will last 4 track days) Tyres: 150£ Brakes: 76£ (pads front+rear lasting) Brakes: 50£ (ps disc lasting 8 trackdays) Petrol: 70£ Trackday fee: 150£ Engine Oil change:40£ (every outing) Diff: 20£ (every 4th) Gearbox:10£ (every 4th) Brake fluid: 12.5£(every 4th, sooner if boiled) Probably missed something, coolant fluid to be replaced every year with some decent stuff to help keep the car cooler. (something like waterwetter, I'm no expert when it comes to cooling) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Where back to having a support van Bike tracking is SO much cheaper it's unreal comparing the two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 everything becomes expensive when tracking and from experience never mix tyres in track as in the wet the car will handle like crap.. You doing quite a few track days now then Neil? You seem to be focusing on them big time now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 everything becomes expensive when tracking and from experience never mix tyres in track as in the wet the car will handle like crap.. You doing quite a few track days now then Neil? You seem to be focusing on them big time now Waiting on car coming back. Been away since August getting worked in. Next year the car will be on a trailer and the only place it will go is the track. (with the exception of a few summer runs) the bills are huge so far for it but it's slowly becoming what I want it to be. Last thing needing done is a cage, carbon boot, adjustable wing and Perspex window. Then hopefully if money prevails I'll be putting a new engine in for 2013. It's a long term project as I'm not a millionaire and can only spend when I can afford to. Can't wait for it to come back, will be a totally different car. Still doing lessons as I'm still learning. It's the only place where you get to see just how good the zed is as a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Look forward to seeing the progress thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Look forward to seeing the progress thread yeah get it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hennett Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Thanks for the tips guys. Ive just gone a bought a second hand set of rays on eBay. £450 with a practically new set of RE40s on and the wheels look good as new too! Tbh I had a similar view of costs, wasn't aware that gearbox and diff oil should be changed regularly, is this required (not that it's much of a cost)? Was hoping that buying used slicks would save a bit as I've heard they last a fair bit longer than something like the R888s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Alex has slicks for sale and they have loads of life in them. Alex wouldn't sell them otherwise. Re040's are great in the dry and heat, terrible on the cold and wet. I don't drive hard enough to get enough heat into them on track on wet. For 450 you got a good deal. Those will last you most of the summer I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I've done 6 or 7 track days and reckon the total (fee, petrol, discs, pads etc) is about £500 a shot. And that's with no insurance so add £200 if you want it........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I've done 6 or 7 track days and reckon the total (fee, petrol, discs, pads etc) is about £500 a shot. And that's with no insurance so add £200 if you want it........ +1 about 500 quid a session Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Dont think it's that much, maybe it is... rather not think about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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