Daryl Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Im doing a MSV How Fast tomorrow,which should be great. Just wondering what sort of cold pressures i should be running in my Falken 452's,they are 35 profile 19". Done a quick search,but couldnt find anything specific for track days and Falkens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Leave them exactly how they are. You're used to how the car handles and the How Fast days aren't about extended periods of time on track, which is fortunate as the 452s will melt after a bit of pushing. I'd set them to 36f and 37r, give the front a smidgen more bite though if it were me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Cool,thanks,will check them in the morning before i leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Have a good one Daryl Are you practicing for next season when you replace Webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mcgoo Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Have a good one. I was hoping to get to Bedford tomorrow but not got enough time to prep the car so gonna have to leave it this time and hope to make another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Could do with your supercharged Zed! My mate with his E92 M3 is coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackpig Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 452's will be fine, they are a hard wearing tyre and are OK on the grip levels. I would recommend 33psi all round if you are new to trackdays. I work my way down to 27psi front and 30psi rear (cold) for trackdays on tyres fitted to the standard rays wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 452's will be fine, they are a hard wearing tyre and are OK on the grip levels. I would recommend 33psi all round if you are new to trackdays. I work my way down to 27psi front and 30psi rear (cold) for trackdays on tyres fitted to the standard rays wheels. 452's are like t1r's melt very easy. Won't last long on track. Best dry track tyre is re040's. Very grippy once got and hard as hell to wear. 452's and t1r's are better suited to wet days. Are you running 18's or 19's mate. If 18's then as ekona said runner higher pressure as the sidewalls may get it bad. They're pretty soft in comparison to oem spec tyres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vik54 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I've run T1rs on track for last two years - just increase pressure on whichever of the fronts will take most wear to avoid uneven wear I learnt this the hard way after a strangely warm day at KRC last year when I literally melted the outer side of the nearside front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I've run T1rs on track for last two years - just increase pressure on whichever of the fronts will take most wear to avoid uneven wear I learnt this the hard way after a strangely warm day at KRC last year when I literally melted the outer side of the nearside front your t1rs looked as if they had been through a fire by the end of that session..... mines only lasted 1 session and i killed them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackpig Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 452's will be fine, they are a hard wearing tyre and are OK on the grip levels. I would recommend 33psi all round if you are new to trackdays. I work my way down to 27psi front and 30psi rear (cold) for trackdays on tyres fitted to the standard rays wheels. 452's are like t1r's melt very easy. Won't last long on track. Best dry track tyre is re040's. Very grippy once got and hard as hell to wear. 452's and t1r's are better suited to wet days. Are you running 18's or 19's mate. If 18's then as ekona said runner higher pressure as the sidewalls may get it bad. They're pretty soft in comparison to oem spec tyres Thats not my findings with the 452 but everyone reads these things differently. re040's are good in the dry but not the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 452's will be fine, they are a hard wearing tyre and are OK on the grip levels. I would recommend 33psi all round if you are new to trackdays. I work my way down to 27psi front and 30psi rear (cold) for trackdays on tyres fitted to the standard rays wheels. 452's are like t1r's melt very easy. Won't last long on track. Best dry track tyre is re040's. Very grippy once got and hard as hell to wear. 452's and t1r's are better suited to wet days. Are you running 18's or 19's mate. If 18's then as ekona said runner higher pressure as the sidewalls may get it bad. They're pretty soft in comparison to oem spec tyres They are 19" mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 452's will be fine, they are a hard wearing tyre and are OK on the grip levels. I would recommend 33psi all round if you are new to trackdays. I work my way down to 27psi front and 30psi rear (cold) for trackdays on tyres fitted to the standard rays wheels. 452's are like t1r's melt very easy. Won't last long on track. Best dry track tyre is re040's. Very grippy once got and hard as hell to wear. 452's and t1r's are better suited to wet days. Are you running 18's or 19's mate. If 18's then as ekona said runner higher pressure as the sidewalls may get it bad. They're pretty soft in comparison to oem spec tyres They are 19" mate. Ideally looking at around 35psi warm pressure but depending how long your on track and how much heat your creating will reflect on how much you will need to deflate them and reinflate. Start at 35 cold and check them after a run. If they're too hard you will wear the centres quicker. Keeps the side getting the most abuse a little higher by 1 or 2 psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Keeps the side getting the most abuse a little higher by 1 or 2 psi. you need to run the cold pressures lower as the tyre heat up the pressure climbs and the tyres ballon in the middle. Running higher pressures for sidewall strength doesnt work as it will cause the tyre to ballon; if your only doing 3 laps runs knock around 2 psi from the rear around 1 psi from the front, any more laps than that may be 3/4 psi removed from cold tyre pressure's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackpig Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 you need to run the cold pressures lower as the tyre heat up the pressure climbs and the tyres ballon in the middle. Running higher pressures for sidewall strength doesnt work as it will cause the tyre to ballon; if your only doing 3 laps runs knock around 2 psi from the rear around 1 psi from the front, any more laps than that may be 3/4 psi removed from cold tyre pressure's Well said but be carefull, dont go against what the forum tyres "experts" say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Keeps the side getting the most abuse a little higher by 1 or 2 psi. you need to run the cold pressures lower as the tyre heat up the pressure climbs and the tyres ballon in the middle. Running higher pressures for sidewall strength doesnt work as it will cause the tyre to ballon; if your only doing 3 laps runs knock around 2 psi from the rear around 1 psi from the front, any more laps than that may be 3/4 psi removed from cold tyre pressure's The tyre will only balloon at high speed. When cornering the weight shift exerts more strain on the sidewall as the loads and forces increase. 1st thing about pressure is that it exerts force evenly. If you increase the tyre pressure then to some degree will increase the stability of the side and stop it folding with the extra weight shifting onto it. 1psi more isn't going to cause ballooning when cornering at lower speeds. Why only remove 1psi from front and 2 from rear ? From my experience the fronts gain more pressure as they have a greater friction when cornering therefore more heat. Save all the hassle and fill with oxygen free nitrogen..... Kwik fit will do it for a quid a tyre if you don't have the equipment yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 The tyre will only balloon at high speedI disagree, blow your tyres up to a high pressure they will ballon in the middle of the tread due to the flexibility of the tread carcass. That's why when your tyres pressure's climb high the call will over heat the centre of the tyre more. A RWD car will work the rear tyres harder than the front tyres, that's why I say remove more pressure from the rears, and to be 100% correct you may need to remove a little more from the left front as this will work harder than the right front. I have worked in Motorsport for over 15 years so i do know a little about car set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 So why do the likes of car limits tell people to inflate their tyres to max. Im not the prepared to go into a debate. Your talking from 15 years of experience. I'm talking from the physics and science behind it and I know alot about both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 If you increase weight load on a tyre then the weight will cause the tyre walls to compress. Look at a car going round a corner the wheels on the outer will load. Along with g-force, gravitational pull and the weight of the vehicle the weight force on the outer tyre will increase massively. If I put my cars wheels on my gf dads 760li beemer with the same pressure what will the tyres look like with the added weight ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 So why do the likes of car limits tell people to inflate their tyres to max. Andy only says that to minimise tyre wear as North Weald is so abrasive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 So why do the likes of car limits tell people to inflate their tyres to max. Andy only says that to minimise tyre wear as North Weald is so abrasive. I saw Will350Z's tyres after a car limits session in the summer.... I have seen less canvas in a branch of Milletts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 The tyre will only balloon at high speedI disagree, blow your tyres up to a high pressure they will ballon in the middle of the tread due to the flexibility of the tread carcass. That's why when your tyres pressure's climb high the call will over heat the centre of the tyre more. A RWD car will work the rear tyres harder than the front tyres, that's why I say remove more pressure from the rears, and to be 100% correct you may need to remove a little more from the left front as this will work harder than the right front. I have worked in Motorsport for over 15 years so i do know a little about car set up. Cool thanks for that How do you keep adjusting the pressure as you go along during the day? It was easy on a bike with only two tires but a car has four and the corners behave differently. Would like to know what to keep on a 18" rays with P50's , I think it's probably going to be pretty cold on the track too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Neil, I am not saying that I know everything far from it but I am sure we can have a reasonable discussion on here to help other people understand trackday tyres pressures. I agree a heavier car will need higher tyre pressures , but when you run on the track and the tyres start to heat up due to friction the pressures climb fairly quickly, we then lower the pressures to keep the tyre pressures around the idea pressure. I agree a higher tyre pressure will make the tyre be stiffer on the sidewalls but a higher tyre pressure can cause the tyre to ballon and over heat so losing grip, Neil have you ever used a tyre pyrometer to check temps across a tyre after coming off of the track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Didnt realise this would cause such a debate! I inflated my tyres to 36 front and 37rear just after i left home,and have to say that they were at 33F+34R before. After a few laps,i felt the car wasnt right,so checked the pressures,and they were over 40 all round,so dropped them to 35 all round,and the car felt so much better,and more planted,especially round the fast corners. I was understeering before,and after the pressure drop,it just gripped and felt alot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Neil, I am not saying that I know everything far from it but I am sure we can have a reasonable discussion on here to help other people understand trackday tyres pressures. I agree a heavier car will need higher tyre pressures , but when you run on the track and the tyres start to heat up due to friction the pressures climb fairly quickly, we then lower the pressures to keep the tyre pressures around the idea pressure. I agree a higher tyre pressure will make the tyre be stiffer on the sidewalls but a higher tyre pressure can cause the tyre to ballon and over heat so losing grip, Neil have you ever used a tyre pyrometer to check temps across a tyre after coming off of the track? Yep mate I have checked with my thermal imaging camera. I actually agree with everything you have said as its exactly as I said in my first comment which you disagree'd with. On a small track like Knockhill the left hand side is always loaded more due to the nature of the track therefore more pressure in these tyres help the car due as it will stiffen the sidewall feel and the tyre wont be ballooning unless on a long straight at high speed as the increase in weight load counter acts this in the corners , and, as stated previously on my earlier post that ideally you want to keep tyres around the 35 psi mark spec'd by the manufacturer when warm until you really know what your doing like the pro's do. Obviously different pressures are suited to different conditions. Everything you have now stated is what I said at the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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