Dblock Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 That's abit harsh. He didn't know it was to be run on super and the zed is a sports car it should be driven hard now and then. Who here doesn't red line their zed once every while? Haha, I must admit, from time to time I rag the sh*t out of the zed. That's what it's for, the rev limiter is there to be used - to protect the engine from danger-revs. Also, I do enjoy dropping a gear or two and sticking my foot down, but it's the clutch/gearbox that has to cope with that, not the bottom end. The zed seems to beg for big revs and dropping cogs, I do bean it every now and then, but I like to think it's done with at least a degree of compassion for the thing. I've been rebuilding bike engines since I was 10 and have ridden bikes for 21 years, so I do know how to look after an engine and know what can happen if you don't. It just shocks me that two engines have gone within a week. I can't help wondering if there's a local petrol station to blame for this, because a Japanese V6 should be bomb proof, not sh*t itself when running on 95 Octane unleaded. Rothers - if the top end goes (where that magic spark happens and directly linked to the fuel used) it can upset the bottom end, causing it to eat itself. I've seen little 2 stoke bike engines with a top end seizure damage the big end bearing, f**k the crank and turn itself inside out. That's a single cyliner, so with 6 the forces are much greater and the risk to the bottom end are increased. Saying that - my first thought was oil starvation - so I'm with you on your logic. Stu IMO with an attitude like this against the car, along with poor maintenance I`m not suprised you have killed 2cars. I`m not here to argue your points even though you contradict yourself within the same post with reference to "ragging the s**t out of the zed" & "so I do know how to look after an engine and know what can happen if you don't" Clearly you need to adjust your approach to the way you drive & mainain your vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 That's abit harsh. He didn't know it was to be run on super and the zed is a sports car it should be driven hard now and then. Who here doesn't red line their zed once every while? The problem isnt with ragging it, its looking after it properly. You need to feed it the right fuel and keep it in tip top condition with the right fluids at the correct level. The most problems I've seen on the 350z are from oil starvation which now it appears may be a byproduct of using the wrong fuel and damagine the engine. Not sure if that holds, but certainly the Zed does use more oil as it gets older. The harder you want something to work, the better you have to look after it. Looking at my push bikes as an example. My commuter gets treated like @*!# but it doesnt really have to take a lot of abuse, just road riding but a lot of it in all weathers. My MTB on the other hand gets beasted whenever it goes out (AK will testify this with our last ride in the lakes) but then when I get it home it gets washed and lubed and all parts checked to make sure they are working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernspeed Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Also bear in mind that although the rev limiter will help protect the engine when accelerating , changing down at high revs will spin the engine way faster than it's designed to withstand. Changing down is putting a direct mechanical connection from the back wheels to the crank, multiplied by the gearbox. It also stresses the engine (and all the drive train) in the opposite direction than what it is used to. ie: the piston are being wrenched downwards rather than being pushed downwards. A lot of engine failures in racing occur when the throttle is lifted, not at WOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Also bear in mind that although the rev limiter will help protect the engine when accelerating , changing down at high revs will spin the engine way faster than it's designed to withstand. Changing down is putting a direct mechanical connection from the back wheels to the crank, multiplied by the gearbox. It also stresses the engine (and all the drive train) in the opposite direction than what it is used to. ie: the piston are being wrenched downwards rather than being pushed downwards. A lot of engine failures in racing occur when the throttle is lifted, not at WOT. +1 use the breaks to slow the car down along with a little assistance from the engine to suit rev/speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Oil starvation has been put around re the engine failures, but the one that failed on my dyno had no issues of low oil pressure while on the dyno , oil and filter had been changed prior to the dyno work. After the failure we pulled the plugs out and looked down all the bores with our endescope. No. 3 pistons has gone only the gudgeon pin left connected to the con rod , with out any more stripping which we do if we do any motor change the con-rod is still connected to the crank I cant tell if the big end has seized but I doubt otherwise I am sure the rod would off been broken and cause major engine block damaged. So why did the piston break up , to many rev's , detonation. We wont know until we get the motor stripped we can say no more , but the amount of damage in that cylinder I doubt we will have any piston to inspect, but i am sure we can inspect the other 5 pistons for detonation damage inspect the bearing for hammering due to detonation. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-B Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 That's abit harsh. He didn't know it was to be run on super and the zed is a sports car it should be driven hard now and then. Who here doesn't red line their zed once every while? Chris & Southern speed have just voiced my thoughts exactly. I in no way drive my car like miss daisy but as many other members on here have witnessed. I drive my car on & off track fairly hard but treat it with the utmost respect mechanically. Always monitoring & replacing fluids, lubricants etc. Using only the best products including fuel. Very rarely hitting the limiter, never changing down to over rev the car, using heel-n toe to reduce the negative drive load as I change down. I believe this is a more suited attitude to have if you are going to drive a car hard. It clearly shows that those who do not look after theirs cars correctly tend to pay the price. Mines 7years old now, 65k, 30+ full trackdays, plenty of drifting & fast road use, still on original clutch, flywheel & ENGINE That`s my 2pence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 That's abit harsh. He didn't know it was to be run on super and the zed is a sports car it should be driven hard now and then. Who here doesn't red line their zed once every while? Chris & Southern speed have just voiced my thoughts exactly. I in no way drive my car like miss daisy but as many other members on here have witnessed. I drive my car on & off track fairly hard but treat it with the utmost respect mechanically. Always monitoring & replacing fluids, lubricants etc. Using only the best products including fuel. Very rarely hitting the limiter, never changing down to over rev the car, using heel-n toe to reduce the negative drive load as I change down. I believe this is a more suited attitude to have if you are going to drive a car hard. It clearly shows that those who do not look after theirs cars correctly tend to pay the price. Mines 7years old now, 65k, 30+ full trackdays, plenty of drifting & fast road use, still on original clutch, flywheel & ENGINE That`s my 2pence +1 29k including track and still on original clutch and fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Mark, what normally happens when a car blows on a dyno? Like who's to blame etc etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 This is why most dyno places make you sign a disclaimer these days sadly. That's not speaking for Mark at all, I have no idea if Abbey do this or not, but if it were my company and it was just a dyno run done before I'd touched the car, I'd be making people sign disclaimers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuRS Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Darren - i've said I've neglected it. Chill out. I haven't blown up two zeds. Only one car is mine. Really can't be bothered for an online forum arguement at the moment, i was swapping the engine until 6am so let's leave it there and wait for the abbey diagnosis on my brother's car shall we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 That's abit harsh. He didn't know it was to be run on super and the zed is a sports car it should be driven hard now and then. Who here doesn't red line their zed once every while? The problem isnt with ragging it, its looking after it properly. You need to feed it the right fuel and keep it in tip top condition with the right fluids at the correct level. The most problems I've seen on the 350z are from oil starvation which now it appears may be a byproduct of using the wrong fuel and damagine the engine. Not sure if that holds, but certainly the Zed does use more oil as it gets older. The harder you want something to work, the better you have to look after it. Looking at my push bikes as an example. My commuter gets treated like @*!# but it doesnt really have to take a lot of abuse, just road riding but a lot of it in all weathers. My MTB on the other hand gets beasted whenever it goes out (AK will testify this with our last ride in the lakes) but then when I get it home it gets washed and lubed and all parts checked to make sure they are working. Yes but putting salt in the wound is abit harsh. At the end of the day its him thats forking out the money and Im sure its not nice getting stick on here for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 This is why most dyno places make you sign a disclaimer these days sadly. That's not speaking for Mark at all, I have no idea if Abbey do this or not, but if it were my company and it was just a dyno run done before I'd touched the car, I'd be making people sign disclaimers too. Yeah for dyno shot outs its common, not sure for a tune though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Darren - i've said I've neglected it. Chill out. I haven't blown up two zeds. Only one car is mine. Really can't be bothered for an online forum arguement at the moment, i was swapping the engine until 6am so let's leave it there and wait for the abbey diagnosis on my brother's car shall we? Yeah agree youre the onelumped with fixing it..would be nice to know them root cause of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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