glrnet Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 In case you're wondering I'm posting this on a new thread because I don't want to be seen as hypocritical by debating on the original thread:- viewtopic.php?f=13&t=54519 Personally I think he did came on too strongly in a thread regarding someone who has just died, the phrase "rabid followers" was and is totally out of place there, it should be saved for the "Mac v Microsoft" threads which usually deteriorate into that kind of language. By the same token I don't see anything wrong with what you were trying to do because like him or not he has done a brilliant job that has and will affect the lives of a lot of people, as indeed has Bill Gates. Personally I don't understand the hatred generated between some Mac and Microsoft users, it borders on the puerile at times. I'm sure by Octet's reactions he didn't envisage his original thread being anything more than a place to express condolences for Mr Jobs and Stewie predicted that there could be problems, so why don't we all take a step back and leave that thread for what it was probably intended please. Those who want to debate the pros and cons or otherwise of any Mac/Microsoft issues perhaps this thread is a better place to do it? Nevermind I will go back into my box Yes, please do. Or perhaps you'd like to carry on PM'ing some of the other users on here about my posts as you've done before? And yet, of course, it's the mods that want to cause arguments, isn't it? I don't see any harm in discussing how Jobs will be remembered in this thread as long as it is kept respectful. I don't think LRH was coming on too strong really, and I was hoping to guide the discussion in a way that would be constructive for us all to see just what Jobs did for the world over the course of his life. I don't actually see how that could be a bad thing, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I thought everyone on this forum was grown up enough for things like this to never happen? Saying that, I suppose insurance companies only check the age on your driving licence, not peoples mental age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Right, so a thread dedicated to Jobs isn't the right place to discuss whether he's worthy of the accolades that some give him? So we need a brand new thread for that, and just leave one thread open for "Steve Jobs RIP" messages? I really don't understand the big uproar over this, surely we can debate the issue like adults without having to dictate to people what they can and can't say in each separate thread? As long as you're prepared to argue your point without being abusive or petty, I really don't see the problem. If any of the Mods had felt that LRH had gone way over the top we'd have removed the post. For me, I'd rather steer people in the right direction than just edit and delete willy-nilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 It is the right place if that's what happens but in my opinion the "rabid followers" remark just smacked of the usual Mac v Microsoft argument potential and that's where I could see it possibly going, LRH clearly wasn't prepared to argue the point without being abusive or petty and that IS the problem, and, with respect not everyone wants to be steered in the direction that you or anyone else wants them to go. I have said what I think and you have said what you think, that's fair enough but I happened, on this occasion to disagree which is why I started a new thread. Furthermore, it is not right to say because it wasn't deleted by the Mods that it is ok for everybody, and at no point has anyone suggested it should have been, all I was doing was voicing my opinion and for the reasons I have already explained I chose to do that here. I hope that makes sense. Right, so a thread dedicated to Jobs isn't the right place to discuss whether he's worthy of the accolades that some give him? So we need a brand new thread for that, and just leave one thread open for "Steve Jobs RIP" messages? I really don't understand the big uproar over this, surely we can debate the issue like adults without having to dictate to people what they can and can't say in each separate thread? As long as you're prepared to argue your point without being abusive or petty, I really don't see the problem. If any of the Mods had felt that LRH had gone way over the top we'd have removed the post. For me, I'd rather steer people in the right direction than just edit and delete willy-nilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 It is the right place if that's what happens but in my opinion the "rabid followers" remark just smacked of the usual Mac v Microsoft argument potential and that's where I could see it possibly going, LRH clearly wasn't prepared to argue the point without being abusive or petty and that IS the problem, and, with respect not everyone wants to be steered in the direction that you or anyone else wants them to go. I have said what I think and you have said what you think, that's fair enough but I happened, on this occasion to disagree which is why I started a new thread. Furthermore, it is not right to say because it wasn't deleted by the Mods that it is ok for everybody, and at no point has anyone suggested it should have been, all I was doing was voicing my opinion and for the reasons I have already explained I chose to do that here. I hope that makes sense. It does, ish. When I said I was trying to steer the thread, I didn't mean into a pro or anti Jobs/Apple debate, I meant more into a healthy lets-not-get-too-aggressive-here discussion. That's what is called lenient modding as opposed to telling people what they can or can't say in a thread. I'm still not sure what you're arguing over though, whether it was the fact that I dared try and start a discussion without being abusive, not slapping LRH down immediately or not deleting the petty comment from SMD that was trying to incite a reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Couldn't anyone who didnt agree with or felt offended by something that was posted just have reported it, using the "report this post" button? That's what it's there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Ekona = Opinionated & argumentative Being knowleable does not mean you have to have the last word on EVERYTHING and ANYTHING, in the original thread the OP & a fellow Mod asked everyone to keep it to respectful comments and you continued to argue and wind people up, I agree totally with Graham and not because he is a mate but because he is RIGHT. Think maybe I should come out of my box more often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Couldn't anyone who didnt agree with or felt offended by something that was posted just have reported it, using the "report this post" button? That's what it's there for. I didn't bother as last time I reported something, the Mod who sent me abuse threw a hissy fit, resigned and then was reinstated a couple of months later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 and I can p**s higher up a wall than all of you. Seriously folks, getting tired of the same old arguement, which always seems to boil down to people not being happy with the mods handling of things. We had this a month ago, and we listened, and we changed the way we handled things. Like Dan said - we try to guide the topic away from the fights and leave them open rather than simply locking or deleting. And now we get just as much flak for that. Catch 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Fair comment, maybe in hindsight that would have been a better idea!!! Couldn't anyone who didnt agree with or felt offended by something that was posted just have reported it, using the "report this post" button? That's what it's there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 At no point have I said that. and I can p**s higher up a wall than all of you. Seriously folks, getting tired of the same old arguement, which always seems to boil down to people not being happy with the mods handling of things. We had this a month ago, and we listened, and we changed the way we handled things. Like Dan said - we try to guide the topic away from the fights and leave them open rather than simply locking or deleting. And now we get just as much flak for that. Catch 22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 At no point have I said that. and I can p**s higher up a wall than all of you. Seriously folks, getting tired of the same old arguement, which always seems to boil down to people not being happy with the mods handling of things. We had this a month ago, and we listened, and we changed the way we handled things. Like Dan said - we try to guide the topic away from the fights and leave them open rather than simply locking or deleting. And now we get just as much flak for that. Catch 22. And at no point did I say this statement was aimed at you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 At no point have I said that. and I can p**s higher up a wall than all of you. Seriously folks, getting tired of the same old arguement, which always seems to boil down to people not being happy with the mods handling of things. We had this a month ago, and we listened, and we changed the way we handled things. Like Dan said - we try to guide the topic away from the fights and leave them open rather than simply locking or deleting. And now we get just as much flak for that. Catch 22. And at no point did I say this statement was aimed at you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Couldn't anyone who didnt agree with or felt offended by something that was posted just have reported it, using the "report this post" button? That's what it's there for. I didn't bother as last time I reported something, the Mod who sent me abuse threw a hissy fit, resigned and then was reinstated a couple of months later And this makes it a pointless exercise for all posts then? A member of the team resigning due to posts and disagreements with members over certain issues, does not negate the massive contributions they may have made in other areas of the club. P.S thread locked before it detracts from the very thread which caused its creation in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmarky Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Now that everyone has kissed and made up can this thread just be deleted as i just wasted 2 mins of my life reading nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Couldn't anyone who didnt agree with or felt offended by something that was posted just have reported it, using the "report this post" button? That's what it's there for. I didn't bother as last time I reported something, the Mod who sent me abuse threw a hissy fit, resigned and then was reinstated a couple of months later Jeez not this still surely? And yes i have posted in a locked thread that i never locked or unlocked at any point before i get accused! Also amazed that i also get mentioned (AGAIN!!) in a thread that i have had nothing to do with in the first place! WTF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I've unlocked this to allow a member to reply to a comment after it was reported. All, please don't abuse the fact the topic has been unlocked or it'll be promptly locked again. We are adults and can act as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Thanks Stew. I am mindful that you Mods do have a thankless task at times and for the most part it works well and I'm sure others will agree that we appreciate what you do, however I do object to phrases like this:- "I'm still not sure what you're arguing over though, whether it was the fact that I dared try and start a discussion without being abusive" Where did that come from!!? It infers that I expect you to be abusive, I do not. Or worse, that you think I'm such a dullard that it's ok to be abusive. I'm really not arguing, I voiced an opinion and you have chosen to be, what now appears to me to be sarcastic, that really isn't conducive to a sensible conversation and quite frankly I found it provocative especially as I merely voiced an opinion. That's all I have to say, thank you It is the right place if that's what happens but in my opinion the "rabid followers" remark just smacked of the usual Mac v Microsoft argument potential and that's where I could see it possibly going, LRH clearly wasn't prepared to argue the point without being abusive or petty and that IS the problem, and, with respect not everyone wants to be steered in the direction that you or anyone else wants them to go. I have said what I think and you have said what you think, that's fair enough but I happened, on this occasion to disagree which is why I started a new thread. Furthermore, it is not right to say because it wasn't deleted by the Mods that it is ok for everybody, and at no point has anyone suggested it should have been, all I was doing was voicing my opinion and for the reasons I have already explained I chose to do that here. I hope that makes sense. It does, ish. When I said I was trying to steer the thread, I didn't mean into a pro or anti Jobs/Apple debate, I meant more into a healthy lets-not-get-too-aggressive-here discussion. That's what is called lenient modding as opposed to telling people what they can or can't say in a thread. I'm still not sure what you're arguing over though, whether it was the fact that I dared try and start a discussion without being abusive, not slapping LRH down immediately or not deleting the petty comment from SMD that was trying to incite a reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Trouble is fella, I do sarcastic very well and it's a terribly efficient tool at getting a point across without resorting to base insults but also with a slight edge. I like edgy, it keeps life interesting. Look, truth be told no one is right or wrong here on either side, and I really can't be bothered to carry on a circular argument over something so petty. I'd rather leave the sniping to others who do it far batter than me, and normally behind people's backs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 What i dont get is the arguments in the first place, the guy died of cancer, he was not Hitler or Gaddafi so why all the comments. I haven't felt the need to comment on anything for a long time but I thought it was disrepectful in the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzr350z Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 +1.Unless people on here knew him personally how can anyone possibly comment on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 its a bit like coronation street this place.....doesn't matter how frequently you watch it, its the same old story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Without wanting to **** anyone off. Oversensitivity is an interesting thing. The leader of a cult died. It often happens. People have their right to respect him. I respect what he did as one of the greatest PR minds capitalism has ever seen. But people also have the right to say "Seriously, he's not all that". People still call Micheal Jackson a paedo since he died. Surely people can still say "Meh, I don't get Macs" now Jobs has gone. The only possible argument can be that it's too soon. In which case state your views but no need to act like children about it. I personally don't like putting people up on pedestals, so as such don't see why today is any different to yesterday in terms of stating your opinion on the man. Last of all. Did anyone on here know Steve personally? I doubt it. If you did then you have every right to take things more personally and I very much offer my sympathies for your loss. But assuming not: Why do you care? It's not like anyone's views one way or the other are going to impact Apple or Jobs' family? Or is it all just because it's oh so easy to get super heated on an internet forum in a way you wouldn't in real life... This is just my opinion, and without any specific pointed sightings at any particular individual. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltzinblack Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 People have their right to respect him. I respect what he did as one of the greatest PR minds capitalism has ever seen. But people also have the right to say "Seriously, he's not all that". People still call Micheal Jackson a paedo since he died. Surely people can still say "Meh, I don't get Macs" now Jobs has gone. The only possible argument can be that it's too soon. In which case state your views but no need to act like children about it. I personally don't like putting people up on pedestals, so as such don't see why today is any different to yesterday in terms of stating your opinion on the man. Last of all. Did anyone on here know Steve personally? I doubt it. If you did then you have every right to take things more personally and I very much offer my sympathies for your loss. But assuming not: Why do you care? It's not like anyone's views one way or the other are going to impact Apple or Jobs' family? Wow, finally someone who agrees with my sentiments exactly! I've been trying to say this to a lot of people I know throughout the day. What I'm slightly more annoyed about is how everyone was quick to lament the loss of Jobs, but everybody seems to have forgotten the 10 year anniversary of invading Afghanistan.. where so many more people (and especially very young people!) have lost their lives and seen their friends killed, and have been involved in changing our world a lot more than inventing a fancy mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 ...changing our world a lot more than inventing a fancy mobile phone. We are watching a different TV I guess or live in parallel worlds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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