xbox 360 games - sale

[ir_fuel]

About performance:

 

colleagues of mine made a "high end" demo for the publisher, meaning, taking the meanest and fastest CPU outthere, slapping a few gigs ram on it and taking the latest generation nVidia card, well actually, 2 of those, in SLI and push that stuff to the limit to "show off" the possibilities. Now that ran quite nicely ofcourse.

 

Then they ported that stuff to the xbox360

 

 

and it ran nearly TWICE as fast

The thing has 3 CPU's, with 2 core's each to start with, and tons less OS overhead.

 

And why is it a "pc"?

Everything which has a cpu, gpu, ram and input device is a "pc" then, so is a playstation 1, a supernintendo or a nintendo DS for that matter (or your dvd player, which also has these components ...)

 

And the Unreal 3 engine runs on pc and xbox360, so? I dont see the argument?

 

As said before, the fixed spec and the "no hassle" play are the biggest advantages of a console. I don't see why your favorite racing sim couldn't run on that console, as its cpu power (needed for all those "realistic" physics) far outruns that of your current pc.

[Removed]

it's a PC that only plays games. And that's a fact.

 

it's got a removable hard drive, ffs! it's made by Microsoft!

 

That's what they wanted to achieve, a console with the power of a high end PC that only played games, and was accessible even to 7yo kids.

 

They have succeeded, I've never said any different.

 

Epic always created PC games (and still does) and engines such as the Unreal one on a PC. the fact that it can run on a 360 is only due to the ease of "portability" due to the similarities of the hardware to that of a PC.

 

Chris the fact that you used to play on LAN games doesn't mask the fact that you are wrong on the 360 being the be all and end all of gaming anyway. i guess we'll agree to disagree. I used to play PC games and consoles since Manic Miner on the Spectrum, and I was about 7 then. So what? I still look forward to the day when console gamers wil be able to play vs pc gamers online for some ass whipping lessons

 

I played the xbox360, acutally bbought early part of this year, brought it back for lack of decent games and lack of appeal to me. It took GOW for it to have a "killer app", from a mainly PC games developer, using a PC games engine

[Wa_Wa]

Ooh this is getting a bit touchy...

 

I used to be a dedicated PC gamer but got really fed up with needing to upgrade my PC every few months just to play the latest games - and the expense that went with it. So I decided to convert to a console gamer and I haven't played a single PC game since. The console for me is just so much more fun. Not to mention the social aspect of it.

 

I still have a PC but bought it for a specific purpose (video/photo editing). In 2 years I haven't had to think about any upgrades for it. I'm sure if I was playing PC games I'd have needed a new graphics card by now...

 

Oh, and all this talk about dumbing games down for consoles I have one word - Oblivion.

[ir_fuel]

There is ONE BIG reason why pc games have been dumbed down for consoles, or why console games which appear on several consoles arent 'all that'.

 

The Playstation 2.

 

From a developer point of view, only lunatics like to program that monster. And "monster", not because it is as powerful as a monster (if only it were). There is stuff it cannot do in hardware which was already implemented in a 3DFX Voodoo1 FFS

 

Companies want to maximize revenue with the least effort, so they take the lowest common denominator of all the platforms the game will appear on (in casu, the PS2) and the extra power of the other platforms will not be used (hence GTA vice city looking like it does on pc). If you are doing a dedicated console game, for 1 console type there is no excuse in producing "low-end crap".

 

Anyway, if I had the choice (and many developers with me) i'd ditch pc gamedevelopment altogether and go 100% console

[ir_fuel]

it's a PC that only plays games. And that's a fact.

 

it's got a removable hard drive, ffs! it's made by Microsoft!

 

Still, i dont see any arguments there except for "I say it is, so it is".

Its as much to a pc, as your 350Z is to a Nissan Murano.

 

That's what they wanted to achieve, a console with the power of a high end PC that only played games, and was accessible even to 7yo kids.

 

They have succeeded, I've never said any different.

 

100% right on that one, but that has been the goal from the beginning with all consoles.

 

Epic always created PC games (and still does) and engines such as the Unreal one on a PC. the fact that it can run on a 360 is only due to the ease of "portability" due to the similarities of the hardware to that of a PC.

 

I m sorry dude, but you really havent got a clue of what you are talking about when you talk about 'ease of portability'. I did the Xbox port of a PC engine, colleagues of mine did a GameCube and PS2 port of that engine, and I am currently porting the "cleaned up" version of that engine to Xbox360. It really isn't as easy as it seems, just because it shares some PC components. If you want more details, before going entirely off topic, you can find me on pm or msn

 

Chris the fact that you used to play on LAN games doesn't mask the fact that you are wrong on the 360 being the be all and end all of gaming anyway.

 

Some games will NEVER make it to console, due to the nature of the game. I agree on that.

 

I still look forward to the day when console gamers wil be able to play vs pc gamers online for some ass whipping lessons

 

Has got absolutely nothing to do with it

 

I played the xbox360, acutally bbought early part of this year, brought it back for lack of decent games and lack of appeal to me. It took GOW for it to have a "killer app", from a mainly PC games developer, using a PC games engine

 

Agree partly, apart from the "PC engine" part. (see above )

[Chesterfield]

Val, I know what Im about to say will be somewhat controversial, but you can be wrong you know.

 

PC's are not built for gaming, to do so requires an immense investment compared to that of a console. By the time a developer has finished building a game for a PC, its already behind the hardware. Thats why continual hardware improvements are a drawback for PC games development, they have to scale back their work in order to make it compatible with a massive number of different hardware set ups.

 

How exactly will PC gamers be able to "ass whoop" console gamers?

 

If a keyboard wa the best tool for playing games with, why did console developers go to the expense of creating joypads? Why do they sell joypads for PC's?

 

I wouldnt even like to think of how immensely complex a control setup for games such as Ghost Recon or GOW would be on a PC, where as on a console it is very simple and one hell of a lot more ergonomic.

 

Its also easier to get into the games in the first place, I havent got to make sure that my xbox has the latest drivers installed for the graphics card, DirectX 2.9876549 because 2.965207 wont work with my Nvidia 6547b when I have pixel shading turned on. Then just when I think its all set up right a patch comes out because the game wouldnt work some yugoslavian hardware manufacturers gfx cards. Install the update and then find that it now enables pixel shading plus in the game so I now need to change my driver to 2.564bx and mak sure that I turn on anti alias etc.

Then I fire up the game and find that my mouse speed is all to **** because it doesnt like my microsoft intellipoint driver.

 

I simply take the game out of the case, open the drive, put it in, and play.

 

I gave up on PC games because they are just far too much hastle, I couldn't be bothered to keep upgrading my PC, and I am inherrently a lazy ar$e. So a console is just fine by me.

 

Gears of War is not the only example of what a console can do when apps are coded specifically for it, but its the first one that came to mind when you stated FPS games on a console are crap. What you actually meant was that you arent very good at them unless you can use a mouse pointer to aim - how much skill does that take? People click on icons all day long, no wonder its easier with a mouse.

 

As you say some games do not play as well on a console as they do on a PC, strategy games like Command and Conquer for example, games that inherently use a mouse.

 

FPS games on a console can be every bit as good as a PC, and in many cases, better. Plus I havent got to sit in my study glued to a monitor mouse and keyboard to play them.

 

Then of course there's the fact that on the xbox, unlike the PC I havent got to put up with some nerd who has hacked his game so he can see/shoot through walls.

 

Sorry Val, but PCs should stick to excel and limit themselves to minesweeper for games. I know its hard, and probably somewhat of a strange concept, but you can be wrong you know, and on this occasion, you are.

[ir_fuel]

[Wa_Wa]

RTS games on consoles can work. Command and Conquer on the PS1 was a nightmare compared to the PC version. Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle-Earth 2 on the 360 works. It's all down to the interface. But I do agree - a mouse makes it much easier to play.

[Sarnie]

just caught up with this thread

 

Val just admit your wrong*

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Cue Val do anything but admit defeat

[Removed]

PC's are not built for gaming, to do so requires an immense investment compared to that of a console. By the time a developer has finished building a game for a PC, its already behind the hardware. Thats why continual hardware improvements are a drawback for PC games development, they have to scale back their work in order to make it compatible with a massive number of different hardware set ups.

 

sure, of course the fact that computer gaming was actually born on PCs is completely irrelevant

All these incompatibility issues you keep referring to, are bollox as well. I can't remember last time I had a game not working on my PC.

 

How exactly will PC gamers be able to "ass whoop" console gamers?

 

If a keyboard wa the best tool for playing games with, why did console developers go to the expense of creating joypads? Why do they sell joypads for PC's?

 

from that statement I can telll you have no idea on how to play any fps properly. BTW GOW is not a fps as it's mostly in 3rd person, due to this new uber cool, cover system, that imo is not even all that. It's the combination of mouse AND keyboard that allows the best in precision of aim and movement. You keep using your joypad

 

I wouldnt even like to think of how immensely complex a control setup for games such as Ghost Recon or GOW would be on a PC, where as on a console it is very simple and one hell of a lot more ergonomic.

 

again, if you find games like ghost recon (which, by the way comes from the PC... again ) complicated, I suggest you stick to console games

 

Its also easier to get into the games in the first place, I havent got to make sure that my xbox has the latest drivers installed for the graphics card, DirectX 2.9876549 because 2.965207 wont work with my Nvidia 6547b when I have pixel shading turned on. Then just when I think its all set up right a patch comes out because the game wouldnt work some yugoslavian hardware manufacturers gfx cards. Install the update and then find that it now enables pixel shading plus in the game so I now need to change my driver to 2.564bx and mak sure that I turn on anti alias etc.

Then I fire up the game and find that my mouse speed is all to **** because it doesnt like my microsoft intellipoint driver.

 

I simply take the game out of the case, open the drive, put it in, and play.

 

I gave up on PC games because they are just far too much hastle, I couldn't be bothered to keep upgrading my PC, and I am inherrently a lazy ar$e. So a console is just fine by me.

 

again, this is just your experience. I simply can't remember the last time I had any compatibility issues whatsoever on any PC game. But of course, if one has no idea of what they are doing or as you put it, they are lazy and are happy with dumbed down games, consoles are perfect.

 

Gears of War is not the only example of what a console can do when apps are coded specifically for it, but its the first one that came to mind when you stated FPS games on a console are crap. What you actually meant was that you arent very good at them unless you can use a mouse pointer to aim - how much skill does that take? People click on icons all day long, no wonder its easier with a mouse.

 

 

what a bad excuse of not being able to play a fps (GOW is not an FPS by my books btw, it's mostly in 3rd person) with the best controls combination (ie mouse + keyboard). Oh and btw shall I reiterate who Epic are? Where the Unreal engines stem from?

 

As you say some games do not play as well on a console as they do on a PC, strategy games like Command and Conquer for example, games that inherently use a mouse.

 

FPS games on a console can be every bit as good as a PC, and in many cases, better. Plus I havent got to sit in my study glued to a monitor mouse and keyboard to play them.

 

strategy games can't be played on a console simply as they are too complicated for them, It'd be fun to see any of the "total war" series on a console

 

I'd love to have a name of a FPS which is better on a console than on a PC

 

Then of course there's the fact that on the xbox, unlike the PC I havent got to put up with some nerd who has hacked his game so he can see/shoot through walls.

 

Sorry Val, but PCs should stick to excel and limit themselves to minesweeper for games. I know its hard, and probably somewhat of a strange concept, but you can be wrong you know, and on this occasion, you are.

 

 

it's not a matter of being right or wrong, it's a matter of what you like. You like your dumbed down versions of console games as you are lazy (as you said) I like being challenged by games that push boundaries, innovate and are not created to be accessible by 7yo kids

 

 

Stew, I'm playing Oblivion right now, and will do a bit of research on which parts have been dumbed down for the 360 version. (which there'll surely be plenty, firstly possibly less content in the first place)

 

IR_fuel, by ease of portability I meant that surely port a game/engine from a PC to a 360 is much easier than to port it to any other existing console? if it isn't then surely that was supposed to be one of the main aims of microsoft, so they must have failed in that.

 

 

Anyway, as I said before, we'll just have to agree to disagree. PC games > console games, end of story (imo of course)

[Baptist]

I must admit, PC's are far superior for strategy games, the use of a keyboard and mouse make that kind of thing much easier to handle.

 

You cant beat consoles for value and knowing that its going to play the same quality wise as your mates machine, and will work on your console without having to buy new parts just to make a game run.

[ir_fuel]

IR_fuel, by ease of portability I meant that surely port a game/engine from a PC to a 360 is much easier than to port it to any other existing console? if it isn't then surely that was supposed to be one of the main aims of microsoft, so they must have failed in that.

 

Basically, the biggest difficulty of porting a game to any console is just that, the fact that it is a console, no fancy smancy MMU on your processor, no virtual memory, no hd etc etc. The advantage the xbox has compared to a ps2 (cannot compare 360 to ps3 due to lack of ps3 devkit overhere ) is that it shares parts of its api with the win32/dx api and that the ps2 doesnt have an api worth mentioning. And then again, if you really want to use max performance of your xbox you ditch that shared part and use the platform-specific instructions which give you more power ofcourse. (If i am not mistaken someone once made a gfx lib for the ps2 too which was similar to OpenGL, so porting an openGL game to ps2 would have been easier too, same story). If we suppose we have a game on pc which can run theoretically on ps2 specs (rendering and so on) the initial port to xbox will be quicker to do than to ps2 (especially for developers with 0 console experience), but to get the product on that console in a finished state the benefit in the long run is not that big. The biggest issues to solve when going to a console is the list mentioned above, and that goes for any console, be it an xbox360 or a nintendo DS. What i mean is that the step from pc to ANY console is big, if you have no experience in the domain.

 

Of course developing for xbox is easier and less frustrating than for ps2 if you want to max out the performance, due to the heaps of tools microsoft gives their developers (if you want real-time advanced profiling on a ps2 devkit, you need to buy some piece of hyper-expensive hardware which literally reads out signals on the circuit-board and tells you where the stalls happen , its what they used to get the max out of GT4 on ps2, always handy when you have some Sony engineers to explain you what happens dough ... ) but the market has dictated otherwise and there arent that many games that really push the xbox (due to ps2 being the big player in that generation, so very few xbox only titles with all the dumbing down associated with it).

Btw, porting to the Nintendo GameCube was also not so hard. I never heard anyone say thats "just a pc with fixed specs in a box".

 

 

a lot of blabla on Xmas day, i hope somebody is interested in all these ramblings

[Sarnie]

a lot of blabla on Xmas day, i hope somebody is interested in all these ramblings

 

Nope

[ir_fuel]

Don't worry Sarnie, you can just admit its too complicated for you