Big Alan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 My Zed has been using horrendous amounts of oil (600 miles per litre 05 plate 67,000 miles) I have eventually persuaded the dealer who supplied it (Westway Nissan Stourbridge) to rebuild the engine at their expense. But after new pistons rings and oil seals the problem is not cured. There is no oil under the car so it is not leaking. It is not smoking. I am assured that the bores were measured and showed no wear or ovality. They were honed and new pistons and rings fitted along with new valve stem seals etc. The engine was actually rebuilt twice! After the first attempt it smoked very badly. The dealer then contacted Nissan who said that the design of the rings has been changed and I would need new pistons as well. After much grumbling from me about the time this was taking I eventually got the car back. After 200 miles I checked the oil and found it well down. In went a litre of 5-30 fully synthetic oil. Dealer admitted that the level may not have been right to the top mark after the rebuild claiming that they put in the amount Nissan specify which may not come to the top! 250 miles later with the level once again well down the stick the dealer has admitted that they don't know where the oil is going. New pistons and rings plus new valve stem seals and a full gasket kit should have cured the problem. The dealer is going to contact Nissan Technical for any ideas that they have but I thought I would ask if any of the people on this forum who really know these engines have got any ideas. Engine sounds good, pulls well and appears to be working properly apart from the horrendous oil consumption. No smoke no leaks so where is the oil going? I have been treating it a little more gently than normal to give the new pistons and rings a change to settle in, but not ridiculously so. All I can say is can anybody help, I would love to have my car working properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilscorp Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Put a filter of sum sort over the exhaust and see if it collects anything, cos oil does not vanish. Have you checked your intake and any oil return pipes on the cam cover/intake incase these are filling up with oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zugara Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Try fitting an oil catch can, are your zorst tail pipes sooted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I can only assume that the issue lies with the engine builder. Without getting to technical a Nissan trained technician is not an engine builder. Engine building is specialised and as such should only be carried out by suitably trained personel. I guess that the dealershipped may have fooked up with there build. You have been reasonable and given them the chance to fix your issue. I would now ask for a new engine Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisS Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I can only assume that the issue lies with the engine builder.Without getting to technical a Nissan trained technician is not an engine builder. Engine building is specialised and as such should only be carried out by suitably trained personel. I guess that the dealershipped may have fooked up with there build. You have been reasonable and given them the chance to fix your issue. I would now ask for a new engine Alex. A note for you Big Al. This man ^^^^ has forgotten more about 350s than most of us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Coming from the people that builds Alex's engine's 1st thing you shouldnt be using fully Synthetic oil on a newly built motor. It needs either a running in oil or a non synthetic oil for the bedding in period. 2nd how many miles has the newly built motor done so far? did they give you any running in rules? 3rd the car dont show oil being burnt if the have CATS still fitted , the cats run that hot they burn the oil off in the exhaust gas , so your ca rburns oil and doesnt show it using oil. A lot of cars show this after fitting de-cats , the cars start smoking refit stock cats smoking goes. hope this all helps; Very surprised Nissan didnt just fit a new motor thou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35LEE Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Agree with Mark, they should have just put a new lump in. I think list price is £11k on a new engine though so they must have thought a rebuild would make them more cash than a lump swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alan Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 I agree with Zmanalex something sure as hell aint right with the rebuild, I shall be asking them what are they going to do about it. Bank Holiday at the moment so they aren't going to get much joy from Nissan for a few days. They did take advice from an engine specialist firm about what was worn etc but as far as I know the senior technician at Westway actually put it together. It seems to me that the initial problem wasn't pistons and/or rings so replacing them hasn't done anything. They must have missed something when they stripped and rebuilt the engine. I shall get Westway to check all pipes etc working on the basis they messed it up so they can mend it and I can't be accused of doing any damage if I don't touch anything more than checking the oil. Also there isn't a lot of room under that bonnet, It doesn't look the easiest of motors to work on. The oil has been drained and refilled by westway with a measured amount so I can drive it for a bit, they will then drain and measure to see what the oil consumption is. My guess is the figure will be the same as last time it was measured which would tend to confirm the original problem is still there. The rules for running it in were don't use use full throttle or excessive revs for at least 1000 miles. I suggested that under reving is also to be avoided. Keep it spinning nicely without slogging it and change up at about 4500 at first letting that limit rise with time was agreed to be sensible. I have kept away from the red line but tried to keep the engine spinning freely and "feeling happy". I shall see what I can find to make a filter to put over the exhaust; a bag made fropm horticultural fleece might be worth a try - Just dont let it get too hot. Fit it run the engine for a short while and look to see if it shows anything.. The tail pipes are pretty black but they were like that before the rebuild. I shall have to clean them and do a few miles to get much of a clue there Where should I fit an oil catch can? I shall post the results of a filter on the exhaust and any more info asap. I reckon that a new engine would be nice but I doubt Nissan will agree. Dealer knows I am very unhappy and I have mentioned trading standards solicitors etc as I was getting very fed up with my car being sat in the workshop and the summer disappearing fast. If they cant mend it and won't replace it I shall go for a refund. That way I could always buy another Zed. In case anyone has met the car before the reg is currently DX05 YCC but it did have a personalised plate at one time . The colour is gunmetal grey. If it has a history of regular track days etc someone might know it. Salesman of course assured me it had never been raced, rallied or ill treated in any way. Thanks for the help folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I wouldnt fit a oil catch can until you have diagnosed what the issue is. Anything you further add will only complicate matters, keep it simple for the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alan Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Westway have had the car back and had another look. As expected they couldnt find the problem. They did repair a tiny weep from a rocker cover. But that was so small that you needed to put there car on a lift and look from underneath to see it, there was no drip of oil just a slight oily bit on the back of the motor. The problem is now being refered back to Nissan. Before the rebuild the car was using a litre of oil in 600 miles. It is still using a litre in 600 miles so it would appear that the problem wasn't the oil control rings as diagnosed. There is no sign of any oil coming from the engine breather. The valve stem seals are new. The bores show no signs of wear or ovality, they were honed to remove any glaze during the rebuild. There is no sign of smoke even before the cat has had time to warm up and burn any oil. A lot of oil is going somewhere but no-one seem to be able to find where. I shall be interested to see what Nissan have to say. Hopefully it will be something like "have a new engine". Trying to look on the bright side if they do find that there is a remedy I will have an engine that has been rebuilt with new bearing shells, pistons, rings, valve seals etc. All without costing me any money. But what I really want is my car back, and working properly. Either that or a refund of my money so I can go and buy another one from somewhere else. I am getting fed up of driving courtesy cars. They keep lending me a 1500cc diesel Qashqai, a truly awful car. As soon as I hear any more from Westway I will post a follow up hopefully this should be within the next couple of days otherwise it stands a very good chance my solicitor will be getting a phone call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEADPHONES Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 I shall keep my fingers crossed you get a new engine. Can you imagine the ball ache if you had bought the car privately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zugara Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 It might be lurking in the Bell housing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R35LEE Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 The tiny leak from the rocker cover.... did you see it or did they tell you about it? I only ask because we had a customer come to us who thought he had a small weap but on inspection the rubber seal was totally dislodged at the rear and was the cause of a massive loss of oil. If your still having issues try for a replacement engine but they do not have to as they are allowed to make good the worked they have charged you for. If they do take the car off you for a long period make sure they give you a decent courtesy car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernspeed Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 The rings/bores may well have been the problem but if you're running in on fully synthetic the new rings won't bed in so you're back where you were. As Mark said, you need a running in oil or a semi/mineral oil. If there is no external leak then you have to be burning it (or losing it into the cooling system via cracked block, bad gasket etc but you'd see that in the coolant), if it's not coming past a valve guide it has to be passing by the rings (assuming you don't have a cracked/holed piston). Maybe suggest to them that you take it to a Z specialist and they foot the bill? They don't have to smoke to burn oil. Mine burns loads but it's only visible under hard use where as when I just had a race cat it left huge clouds everytime I got on the throttle, especially after any engine braking. The stock cats burn virtually all evidence of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alan Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 If the oil was lurking anywhere within the bell housing or any part of the engine wouldnt it have been found when the engine was stripped? I saw the tiny leak myself. It was very small, not enough to drip any oil onto the floor. The back left corner of the engine was slightly oily, it certainly didn't appear to be anything major. I shall take the car to my local mechanic and get him to put it on his lift, as you have to look from underneath to see the leak. So we will be able to confirm that this leak has been cured. My local mechanic is a sensible experienced (30 years +) gentleman who has the sense to farm out any specialised work such as electronics or air conditioning (or engine rebuilds.) With his experience he knows who are the skilled people in the area, and who are the cowboys that are best avoided. I have used him for normal servicing for years and always been very happy with his work. I was planning to use him for my routine servicing once this problem is sorted as I feel happier using a mechanic that I know, rather than trusting a dealer where you have no idea who is actually doing the work. Also his labour rates are much less than main dealer rates - you are not paying for a posh showroom with lots of overheads. He has given the car a quick once over and can't see anything obvious. So it is back to the dealer, they sold me the car so it is their responibility to make it work. If I don't hear from them tomorrow I shall ring and ask what they are proposing to do. I suspect that the answer will be that they haven't received a reply from Nissan. In which case I shall point out to them that they have a large poster on the wall saying that if you have a problem they will let you know what action they will take to solve it within 48 hours. This being a Nissan promise not something unique to Westway. The oil being used is the semi synthetic recomended by Nissan and used by their dealer. I did add one litre of fully synthetic when I found I needed to top it up as the level had reached the bottom mark after approx 500 miles. It has since then had another 600 ml of oil added by the dealer. According to the dealers calculations I am using one litre every 600 miles. This is the same rate as before the rebuild. This tends to make me believe that the problem was not pistons rings or valve seals since replacing them made no difference. The bores were measured and honed by an engine specialist who could find no wear. This would seem to take care of all the normal causes of high oil consumption. My knowledge of engines is not sufficient to come up with any other suggestions apart from getting a real expert to carefully strip and examine the engine. There must be a fault somewhere, it just needs someone to find it. So the idea of a Z specialist could be worth trying. Any recomendations of someone good (preferable somewhere near Worcester) will be gratefully received. I get any car that Westway have available as a test vehicle for a courtesy car. Unfortunately they don't have a 370 on test otherwise I would have that. There isn't anything in the Nissan range that I like apart from the 350 or 370. (I have discounted the GTR as they are not going to have one on the test fleet of a dealer in Stourbridge.) So all I can do is grab the vehicle that the manager is using as his own personal car so he will be encouraged to sort my problems out in order to get his car back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernspeed Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I feel your frustration and sympathise, but someone isn't being straight with you. A litre in 600 miles that isn't pouring onto the floor can only be going one place ... out the tail pipe! Either it was measured wrongly, honed badly or built badly .... or not rebuilt at all ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alan Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Whatever is going on there is one thing that is certain; I am not going away until this has been resolved to my satisfaction. So far I have been very polite to them and not lost my temper. This won't last for ever. If I have to resort to legal action I will claim for every penny possible. But I hope I am jumping the gun slightly. The ball is firmly in Nissans court. To quote from an article in Car Dealer magazine dated Jan 24th 2011 :- 48 hour promise – ‘We will offer customers who have a problem with their car a proposal to resolve it within 48 hours. That doesn’t mean it’ll be fixed in 48 hours but we promise to lay down what we’ll do within 48 hours. That’s from the dealer in conjunction with us. That doesn’t sound huge but if you can deliver on that it has a big impact.’ ( http://www.cardealermagazine.co.uk/publ ... plan/47918 ) So I am going to ask Nissan to honour their promise. I dont make promises that I cant keep and I don't expect a firm like Nissan to make rash promises either. As I see it they have two options either mend it, which they have so far been unable to do, or refund my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alan Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 I think that a solution is in sight. Can't say any more just yet but a possible solution appears to be on the table. Should know more on monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zugara Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 not fair, spill the beans...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alan Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Now I know what is on the table I can spill the beans. I have been offered a straight swap for another car. Originally I thought I was going to be offered one that I had seen on the forecourt that I wouldn't swap for mine. But the Dealer tells me he has bought in another car that he considered too good to miss. My car is an 05 plate GT model with 68000 miles on the clock in gunmetal grey. I have been offered a 54 plate non GT pack with less than 25000 on the clock in blue. It is also supposed to have a full service history which I shall obviously check. I am not too worried about the different seats as I have have fitted Recaro seats which I would swap into the new car. (I was considering selling the original leather seats). I am also happy with the colour. The remaining difference is the upgraded stereo in the GT model. Does anyone know whether it is possible to swap the stereo as the dealer has offered to swap it over if it is reasonably possible. I haven't seen the car yet as it is coming in to the dealer either tonight or tomorrow. The low mileage certainly makes it tempting especially if the stereo will move. Either that or any suggestions of a better stereo will be very welcome. In my opinion mileage and condition are more important in a car of this age than 6 months age difference. I shall also be asking what warranty I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisS Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Get them to put in a nice double din jobby with screen etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky370z Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 That sounds good, less than 25k. But would be wary of a non gt as they are harder to sell on. Radio has to be "divorced" for the original car. And married up to the new one. But if its in good condition and the history checks out, I would consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alan Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 I was more concerned about the amp and speakers. I understood they were uprated in the GT pack. I had been considering a new head unit one day if I had some spare cash. Which unit I would fit I haven't a clue, anyone know a good place to buy one from. I live in Worcester and prefer to buy audio units after listening rather than over the internet so if anyone can recomend a good audio dealer please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alan Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 I understand the point about non GT models being harder to sell on. But as I shall be fitting my Recaro seats that is an improvement over the standard. If the Audio system can be uprated it will mean that though it is not a true GT it will be of very similar spec. Is changing over the audio a job for a specialist or should a main dealer be able to do it? I shall also be asking for an oil consumption test before I agree to the swap. It is very unlikely that this car will have similar problems but I want the peace of mind to know that it has been tested and is not consuming loads of oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marzman Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Sounds like a great deal. Post the reg of your current car on here so if anyone posts up saying they're going to view your car in the future we can warn them of the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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