notfub Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 After many cars and many self builds/installs I wanted something special for my 350z. After a little research, I met up with Lee from Sonic Frontiers and discussed what was going to be a door speaker upgrade. Some hours passed and after listening to three demo vehicles and a range of different music, I decided to go for Lee's Sonic Punch install. The Sonic Frontiers website is at http://www.sonicfrontiers.co.uk/ and that explains Lee's ethics and unique approach as well as his different system choices. Lee puts his install pics on his facebook page, my install has just been added, here is a link.... http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 557&type=1 While the system has not yet been fully run in (needs at least 100hrs listening) I can say that it sounds amazing....not as amazing as Lee's Astra van install which is £1000's more but it's such a big leap forward from the BOSE I'm overjoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 very very nice, If yoi dont mind me asking could you tell me how much lee charged roughly though PM please? If you would rather not thats cool. I bet that sounds amazing. Running active off the 9887r? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The what look to be flocked a-pillars look ace! Have you retained the head unit or replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfub Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Running active off the 9887r? It's still passive. I have a Genesis Profile 4 Ultra amp running the components up front and bridged to the Rainbow sub. Front end is Morel with DLS passive x-overs for steeper curve. The Alpine is using it's time alignment and EQ as part of the setup but this is Lee's domain & I'm leaving the setup well alone. I asked about adding a Genesis Sub amp and going active but apparently it's not that simple & I'd have to improve other areas of the install to benefit from the full active experience. If I do decide to upgrade further, Lee does buy back kit at an extremely competitive price . However, the car can be returned to standard very easily and the kit used in my next car....370Z.....in a few years.....perhaps @Wasso - Pics show Alpine 9887R HU (32 bit burr brown dacs tucked away inside) The a-pillars are alcantara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 it frustrates me when bose gets such a bad image. bose build brilliant systems, so why do they allow people to put their name to stuff. i don't know if many know, but the zed sound system is just a re-badged clarion system. i'm not slamming your install as it looks fantastic, some excellent kit gone in and i bet the sound is fantastic. i just wish bose would stop sticking their name on other peoples stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 it frustrates me when bose gets such a bad image. bose build brilliant systems, so why do they allow people to put their name to stuff. i don't know if many know, but the zed sound system is just a re-badged clarion system. i'm not slamming your install as it looks fantastic, some excellent kit gone in and i bet the sound is fantastic. i just wish bose would stop sticking their name on other peoples stuff. I heard recently the reason it's stamped with BOSE is because the AMP, sub and speakers are all BOSE, the head unit is Clarion as you say. So it's half and half by what I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 it frustrates me when bose gets such a bad image. bose build brilliant systems, so why do they allow people to put their name to stuff. i don't know if many know, but the zed sound system is just a re-badged clarion system. i'm not slamming your install as it looks fantastic, some excellent kit gone in and i bet the sound is fantastic. i just wish bose would stop sticking their name on other peoples stuff. No bose build decent systems and mainly indoor cinema or big halls and so on. But come listen to Notfubs car and you will think bose is pretty crap. Also as far as SQ goes clarion is much better than bose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Notfub, Any reason the tweeters were moved from the doors to the a-pillars, and is there much change in the soundstage from doing so? I know that'll be hard to quantify given the gulf in quality between the two setups, but I'd still be interested in the difference. Btw, needing to break in speakers and amps is a myth, just crank and enjoy from day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'd imagine it's to bring the stage higher, closer to the ear and on axis. It's not a myth, Cheaper ones yes but expensive ones do need run in especially Kevlar ones the sound usually changes and the speaker loosens up. Sending silly amounts of power to the speaker quickly might invalidate your warrenty on your expensive speakers too. The same if it's -20c you wouldn't get in and blast it. Some people say 80% of full power some people say 40% how are you planning to do it NotFub as 100hours is a long time. Notfub, Any reason the tweeters were moved from the doors to the a-pillars, and is there much change in the soundstage from doing so? I know that'll be hard to quantify given the gulf in quality between the two setups, but I'd still be interested in the difference. Btw, needing to break in speakers and amps is a myth, just crank and enjoy from day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 No, they really don't. Modern speakers are made to incredibly exacting standards using very accurate measurements to make sure when paired that they sound the same. The first time you put any power through them any incredibly minor changes are taken up. Pinched from a knowledgeable guy over on AVF: The notion of loudspeaker break-in is extremely troubling to me and flies in the face of everything we know about modern manufacturing. The analogy between loudspeakers breaking in and automobile engines breaking in is absurd. Automobile engines are not manufactured to the precision of loudspeakers. If they were, they wouldn't need breaking in either. Automobile engines and other auto parts have to endure temperatures and pressures far greater than anything any loudspeaker built will likely ever see. Loudspeakers routinely handle a few watts, a few dozen at most, and very rarely a couple of hundred for a brief time. Automobile engines handle dozens and even hundreds of horsepower and every horsepower is 746 watts. Brakes, transmissions, and other moving parts undergo similarly huge temperatures and pressures compared to audio equipment and loudspeakers. The goal of modern manufacturing is predictable uniformity of product. That means that the finished product must match the characteristics of a prototype in all respects including performance. This is enshrined in the ISO 9000 principle adopted by many manufacturers. Those who don't adopt ISO 9000 often adopt comparable standards from other organizations. The manufacturer wants to exercise the utmost control over his product to be sure his customer will be satisfied by getting exactly what he expected from hearing a demo unit. It is only small garage operation which make a few units at a time as piecework that have neither the technical nor financial resources for such activity. The problem with the "break in" is how does the manufacturer control or predict changes to his product after it leaves his factory? How does he know where the changes will stop. Will they take place? To what degree? Will the product perform so differently from the prototype within a short period that it is unacceptable? If a speaker needs a breakin, wouldn't it make more sense for the manufacturer to do it at the factory so that he could exercise total control over it and reject those units which exceed the performance specifications after break in? All equipment ages. But I expect these gradual changes to elapse over decades, not hours, days or weeks. Personally, I'd avoid any loudspeaker or other equipment for which the manufacturer or salesman says a breakin is required. Sums it up pretty well. The reason that you're told to give it 30 hours or 100 hours is to allow your ears to get used to a totally different sound than you're used to, rather than just taking the whole lot back straight away and saying it's rubbish. It's a manufacturer customer relations ploy, not a technical/scientific one, because people are fickle things who get used to hearing stuff sound a particular way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Fantastic set up I personally would like a DD unit as a front end though, but thats just personal taste Bose do make some good systems, I hear the one in the RX8 is particularly good (if someone knows better I stand corrected) but the Bose in my old Mazda 6 was another rebadged bag of shite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Mmmm Genesis Profile Four Ultra... Where did you source THAT from? I had to buy mine from Gordon himself! Have a look at my thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Sums it up pretty well. The reason that you're told to give it 30 hours or 100 hours is to allow your ears to get used to a totally different sound than you're used to, rather than just taking the whole lot back straight away and saying it's rubbish. It's a manufacturer customer relations ploy, not a technical/scientific one, because people are fickle things who get used to hearing stuff sound a particular way. Not a million miles away from a car engine at all really. From what I understand they are broken in at the factory. The only reason they tell you to take it easy really is so that brakes and tyres can get into working life and burn off any release agents and bed in before you give it some beans. To think that modern engines from a factory require break in is pretty mad. Rebuilt by hand (say FI etc), yes, build by factory no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Possibly but when you have spent much money on nice why not take the time to do it properly. And for every 100 people on hi fi or speaker forums say they don't need breaking in 100 people say they do so it's up to you who you chose to believe. No, they really don't. Modern speakers are made to incredibly exacting standards using very accurate measurements to make sure when paired that they sound the same. The first time you put any power through them any incredibly minor changes are taken up. Pinched from a knowledgeable guy over on AVF: The notion of loudspeaker break-in is extremely troubling to me and flies in the face of everything we know about modern manufacturing. The analogy between loudspeakers breaking in and automobile engines breaking in is absurd. Automobile engines are not manufactured to the precision of loudspeakers. If they were, they wouldn't need breaking in either. Automobile engines and other auto parts have to endure temperatures and pressures far greater than anything any loudspeaker built will likely ever see. Loudspeakers routinely handle a few watts, a few dozen at most, and very rarely a couple of hundred for a brief time. Automobile engines handle dozens and even hundreds of horsepower and every horsepower is 746 watts. Brakes, transmissions, and other moving parts undergo similarly huge temperatures and pressures compared to audio equipment and loudspeakers. The goal of modern manufacturing is predictable uniformity of product. That means that the finished product must match the characteristics of a prototype in all respects including performance. This is enshrined in the ISO 9000 principle adopted by many manufacturers. Those who don't adopt ISO 9000 often adopt comparable standards from other organizations. The manufacturer wants to exercise the utmost control over his product to be sure his customer will be satisfied by getting exactly what he expected from hearing a demo unit. It is only small garage operation which make a few units at a time as piecework that have neither the technical nor financial resources for such activity. The problem with the "break in" is how does the manufacturer control or predict changes to his product after it leaves his factory? How does he know where the changes will stop. Will they take place? To what degree? Will the product perform so differently from the prototype within a short period that it is unacceptable? If a speaker needs a breakin, wouldn't it make more sense for the manufacturer to do it at the factory so that he could exercise total control over it and reject those units which exceed the performance specifications after break in? All equipment ages. But I expect these gradual changes to elapse over decades, not hours, days or weeks. Personally, I'd avoid any loudspeaker or other equipment for which the manufacturer or salesman says a breakin is required. Sums it up pretty well. The reason that you're told to give it 30 hours or 100 hours is to allow your ears to get used to a totally different sound than you're used to, rather than just taking the whole lot back straight away and saying it's rubbish. It's a manufacturer customer relations ploy, not a technical/scientific one, because people are fickle things who get used to hearing stuff sound a particular way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfub Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Notfub, Any reason the tweeters were moved from the doors to the a-pillars, and is there much change in the soundstage from doing so? I know that'll be hard to quantify given the gulf in quality between the two setups, but I'd still be interested in the difference. Btw, needing to break in speakers and amps is a myth, just crank and enjoy from day 1 A few positions were tried with the aim to improve imaging with emphasis on vocal quality. The standard position didn't allow the tweeters to integrate with the mids, spoiling imaging and timing. The soundstage is brought slightly forward and as the range of frequency covered by the morels is vastly superior to the clarions/bose, it's a world of difference. All I can ay is that I can now follow every instrument in a track, the vocals are imaged into the centre of the dash, tracks i'm used to, have a significant amount more detail added. It was Lee's (the installer) call on where to place the tweeters, he's build many an SQ winning car and is a thoroughly decent chap to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfub Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'd imagine it's to bring the stage higher, closer to the ear and on axis. It's not a myth, Cheaper ones yes but expensive ones do need run in especially Kevlar ones the sound usually changes and the speaker loosens up. Sending silly amounts of power to the speaker quickly might invalidate your warrenty on your expensive speakers too. The same if it's -20c you wouldn't get in and blast it. Some people say 80% of full power some people say 40% how are you planning to do it NotFub as 100hours is a long time. I've been advised to let the amp & speakers warm up before turning the volume up to warp factor 10. In terms of running In, it will take some time but I'm just going to be sensible with the system and most of all, enjoy the music. I'm not one to get a hard on because I can hear a string pluck BUT if the clarify and quality and weight and punch of the sound puts a smile on my face then it's mission accomplished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfub Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Fantastic set up I personally would like a DD unit as a front end though, but thats just personal taste I did want a DD initially but was persuaded (in a no compromise pint of way ) to go for either a Pioneer P88RS Mk2 or Alpine 9887R as these two have the best CD mechs and 32 bit burr brown DAC's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MK-Ultra Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Hi there, looks like a real nice setup you've got yourself!! I'm sure that your comps up front are sounding sweet but i was just wondering what the sub is sounding like in there? i've heard mixed reviews, from people saying it sounds great to others saying it lacks any kick. The reason i ask is i'm looking to do an install myself and to save what little boot space there is and to advoid any asbo walking past and seeing my sub on display i was thinking of doing what you've had done. Now i don't want or need a crazy loud setup (i've had just one 10" Type R in my old car and that was perfect) i just wanna know if the bass still kicks hard with it where it is? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfub Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Mmmm Genesis Profile Four Ultra... Where did you source THAT from? I had to buy mine from Gordon himself! Have a look at my thread Jim, Lee from Sonic Frontiers supplied all of the kit apart from the Alpine head unit. I don't know where he sources the Gennys from but suspect he deals with Gordon direct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jables Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Whilst dropping off some parts to notfub I had the opportunity to experience this aural sensation. What a setup! You can hear and see the effort that's gone into it. Anyone looking for a new ICE setup I'd highly recommend giving Sonic Frontiers a call. ICE is lower down on my priority list at the moment but I'll definitely be giving them a ring when I am ready to take the plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.