Amy Winehouse found dead!!!

[Tarmac@TarmacSportz]

Peer presure

[Cragus]

Last performance - ouch!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbDBSm8BUoU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Husky]

i would have asked for a refund

[Peter10]

I never liked Amy Winehouse, but I can't really comment, my favourite musicians were all drug users and/or heavy drinkers... Hendrix, Keith Moon etc etc.

 

What I never liked about Amy Winehouse was how vile she could be to her fans though.

[Squee]

I don't really get the whole 'role model' argument. What's the criteria for someone being a role model? Being famous? Often when a celebrity is caught being up to no good people say what a bad role model they are but I'm sure Amy Winehouse never wanted to be a role model - she just wanted to be a musician.

 

The line get's a bit blurred when footballers are concerned as so many children so aspire to become professional sportsmen and women but to expect Wayne Rooney to be a role model is overly optimistic. Might sound harsh but if a parent encourages their child to look up to celebrities so much that they want to emulate them then they're a bit of a chump.

 

Is it me or is the whole 'celebrity role model' concept quite new? I certainly didn't have any famous role models when I was a kid and it never did me any harm!

 

S.

[Cragus]

I don't really get the whole 'role model' argument. What's the criteria for someone beong a role model? Being famous? Often when a celebrity is caught being up to no good people say what a bad role model they are but I'm sure Amy Winehouse never wanted to be a role model - she just wanted to be a musician.

 

The line get's a bit blurred when footballers are concerned as so many children so aspire to become professional sportsmen and women but to expect Wayne Rooney to be a role model is overly optimistic.

 

Is it me or is the whole 'celebrity role model' concept quite new? I certainly didn't have any famous role models when I was a kid and it never did me any harm!

 

S.

 

Yes you did

[Chesterfield]

I actually think that any artist/band that has any involvement with drugs should immediatley have their records removed from sale, removed from all radio playlists and be barred from appearing at any concerts or shows by law. I bet the producers would take a tougher line with their artists if that were the case. It may concentrate the mind of the artists or their management in getting the problem resolved sharpish. It would also stop glamourising drugs and providing a **** poor example to children.

[Ekona]

Financially she may have been a winner, but she's also possibly the biggest loser I can think of. I'll miss her only only in the sense that she was prime joke material, but other than that I couldn't give a rats ass about her.

 

She had a million chances to sort herself out, and addictive personality or not every addict will have the occasional moment of clarity in which they want to seek help. She gave it a half-arsed attempt more than once but couldn't be bothered with it, so she has absolutely no sympathy from me. Utter waster

[Vik54]

I actually think that any artist/band that has any involvement with drugs should immediatley have their records removed from sale, removed from all radio playlists and be barred from appearing at any concerts or shows by law. I bet the producers would take a tougher line with their artists if that were the case. It may concentrate the mind of the artists or their management in getting the problem resolved sharpish. It would also stop glamourising drugs and providing a **** poor example to children.

 

 

Best remove 99.9% of modern music then

[Sized]

I actually think that any artist/band that has any involvement with drugs should immediatley have their records removed from sale, removed from all radio playlists and be barred from appearing at any concerts or shows by law. I bet the producers would take a tougher line with their artists if that were the case. It may concentrate the mind of the artists or their management in getting the problem resolved sharpish. It would also stop glamourising drugs and providing a **** poor example to children.

 

Don't agree at all dude. To me that's the same as saying we should ban all films that contain any violence/drug use etc etc. As I think a previous poster has said, most of the bands I grew up listening to had drug/alcohol issues (Guns n Roses, Nirvana, Alice in Chains etc) but the most I've ever done is smoke a bit of weed about 10 years ago and had a few beers every now and again! IMO the problem is the fact that we put these people/'celebrities' on pedestals and expect them to be 'role models'. They're just people like you and me, and as such will make shi*tty decisions and screw things up in life. Also, I don't think Amy Winehouse glamourised drugs in any way - she looked a total mess most of the time.

[Chesterfield]

Why is it the same? Films depicting violence/drug use, arent illegal. Actual violence/drug use is. Why was she able to be free at home to OD in the first place? Look at Blake Fieldr whatever his name is, and Pete Doherty. Why the hell are they still free, and still able to be out there making money from music when they are doing Class A drugs?

 

If you have to remove 90% of the music on the shelves because the artists are spending the proceeds on drugs, then thats fine by me. Whatever minority of people see using drugs as a good thing after seeing their favourite artists/bands do it, will be far outweighed by the number that will get the message that if you do drugs, you will fail if they had their work removed from sale.

 

If an athlete gets caught with illegal drugs in their system, they can get a lifetime ban from the sport, and therefor lose their career. Why should singers be treated any differently?

[Vik54]

Chris - by that sort of logic anyone in the public eye who does anything illegal should be immediatley removed from their job or profession - that would be half the film and music inustry for starters.

Should we do the same to every footballer caught speeding, fighting or gangbanging?

[Ricey]

There's no sitting on the fence for me - I'm disgusted by some people's opinions that basically translate into "Junkies deserve to die"

 

Got to be honest Vik I've re-read every comment on this thread and I can't translate any into 'junkies deserve to die'

 

You can't judge every junkie by the one stood next to him/her.........in this case she had way more choices and chances than your average junkie.

 

I buy the psychological issues that addicts have etc but lets not forget she is worth millions that buys an awful lot of rehab which others less fortunate cannot afford - it also means you can choose more easily who you surround yourself with.......surround yourself with Doherty/Fielder-Civil then its not going to end well.

 

Agreed - she never asked to be a role model......but I'm afraid as a celeb you have to take that mantle with the territory.

 

One thing I will say for her is that at least she hasn't exactly glamourised the 'live fast, die young' philosophy......looking like the poster child for an abused horses is no way to go out.

[Ricey]

Should we do the same to every footballer caught speeding, fighting or gangbanging?

 

Castrate......with a hot poker.

 

Modern footballers are literally making me hate the game. I actually supported Germany in the world cup just because I loathed the English players so much.

[Sized]

Chris - by that sort of logic anyone in the public eye who does anything illegal should be immediatley removed from their job or profession - that would be half the film and music inustry for starters.

Should we do the same to every footballer caught speeding, fighting or gangbanging?

 

Vik I was just typing a reply to Chesterfield, but you have done my job for me!

 

Also, re: the point about legality - that wasn't really what I was getting at. I was just trying to demonstrate that if we start blanket banning all 'drug' music where do you stop? The Althletics analogy is also a different kettle of fish IMO, as the performance enhancing drugs that athletes take are specifically designed to give them an unfair advantage over their competitor, which clearly should be harshly reprimanded. Rather than start bannig music, I think we as a society should really get a grip on drug education/legislation and tackle some of the social issues that surround some hard drug use, but that's another topic!

[Ebized]

Now that is far too sensible way forward Chris - with the freedom our demoracy allows that will only stir up those who, without any good reason will shout "foul" - we will do what we want.

 

But when you see how families of those involved are affected and what they go through, and I can assure you that when it is your own off-spring and whether it is money problems, drugs or whatever, as parents/relatives you end up tearing your hearts out wanting their problems to end without their lives being ruined.

 

and Vik/Sized, anyone else - drugs are drugs and if misused it not only affects the users but others as well and until they are only used as prescribed (yeah, Utopia) the associated problems will never go away, sadly.

[Vik54]

and Vik/Sized, anyone else - drugs are drugs and if misused it not only affects the users but others as well and until they are only used as prescribed (yeah, Utopia) the associated problems will never go away, sadly.

 

completely agree Colin

[Sized]

Pete Doherty. Why the hell are they still free

 

Most certainly agree with this mind - Doherty should be jailed for crimes against music apart from anything else.......

[Chesterfield]

Chris - by that sort of logic anyone in the public eye who does anything illegal should be immediatley removed from their job or profession - that would be half the film and music inustry for starters.

Should we do the same to every footballer caught speeding, fighting or gangbanging?

 

Thats stretching it a bit. Its in refference to drug use. A speeding athlete doesnt get banned from the sport, a sexualy adventurous footballer doesnt get banned from playing.

 

When it comes to Class A drug use, its a whole different matter. Just like there are differing forms of punishment for different crimes.

 

Hows about this. When is it ok for a person to continue in their job while being addicted to crack cocaine? Would it be ok for a police officer to conitue in their duties if they were a drug addict? A Judge? MP? Teacher? Airline Pilot? Bus Driver? Taxi Driver?

 

Some of the above are in positions of authority, and some aren't. Is it acceptable/safe for any of them to continue performing those duties in society when addicted to crack?

 

Why is it acceptable for a singer or film star? Is it because they aren't doing any harm, or cant harm others by doing it? Neither can the athlete/footballer - but their gravy train ends if they get involved in that stuff. Perhaps thats why the number of high level sportspeople involved in coke is substantially less than those in the music and film industry.

[Vik54]

Never said drug use by anyone was acceptable Chris - simply challenged people's perceptions of 'deserving' and 'undeserving' addicts and totally misinformed notions of addiction and consequences of addiction.

At no point in this disussion have I brought people's jobs into the morality or legality of drug use - you did that

What I have done though is pointed out that if you apply your logic of ''anyone in the public eye doing something illegal should be stripped of their income and position'' would result in an awful lot of people being removed from their 'work'.

[Chesterfield]

No - you've likened class A drug use, to speeding. I stated that people involved in class A drugs should be stripped of their positions, and you expanded that to all crimes being given the same punishment, not all offenders,

 

My logic does not involve giving all crimes the same punishment, my logic gives all offenders the same punishment for the same crime. Not all crimes the same punishment. You have completely misrepresented my point.

 

In this era of equal rights and all - why should a 100m Hurdles runer loose their job for doing class A, yet a pop star get to keep their records on the shelves?

 

I'd expect 3 points and a fine for speeding to be handed to a teacher or an MP or a pop star. Same crime, same punishment. Athlete drug use = career over, so why not the same punishment for a pop star?

[Sam Mcgoo]

If an athlete gets caught with illegal drugs in their system, they can get a lifetime ban from the sport, and therefor lose their career. Why should singers be treated any differently?

 

Because it wouldn't be perceived that they were gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors, also music is not a competition.

 

Whether you like it or not, think its right or wrong, the fact is drugs and music go together. I'm not talking Heroin or Cocaine but Cannabis, speed, Ecstasy etc enhances the experience of playing, listening and writing music and without them most of the music we ALL love to listen to from the past and present probably wouldn't exist.

 

I'm not saying drugs are good and everyone should take them (far from it), but people that do, do it for a reason. Those that do it to the point of self destruction would probably find another way if drugs weren't available, like Alcohol, its legal but is that really any different/better?

 

Just for information, I don't take drugs any more because drug testing is regular in the work I've done for the last 13 - 14 years so I chose to sacrifice that for the sake of having a good job and earning good money, so I drink alcohol instead (not at work ) and I enjoy it But if both were legal and I had to choose between drink or drugs, I would choose drugs. In the 8 years I was a regular Pot smoker with weekends spent on speed or the occasional 'e' I NEVER had a bad experience, felt ill, had a hangover, got in a fight, or trouble with the law. I found it enhanced the pleasure in everything I enjoyed, music, films, sex and even the most simple things like laying on the sea-wall and staring at the stars.

 

 

I suppose my point is - its not the drugs that is the problem its the people that take them and their attitude to life.

[Vik54]

No - you've likened class A drug use, to speeding. I stated that people involved in class A drugs should be stripped of their positions, and you expanded that to all crimes being given the same punishment, not all offenders,

 

My logic does not involve giving all crimes the same punishment, my logic gives all offenders the same punishment for the same crime. Not all crimes the same punishment. You have completely misrepresented my point.

 

In this era of equal rights and all - why should a 100m Hurdles runer loose their job for doing class A, yet a pop star get to keep their records on the shelves?

 

I'd expect 3 points and a fine for speeding to be handed to a teacher or an MP or a pop star. Same crime, same punishment. Athlete drug use = career over, so why not the same punishment for a pop star?

 

we obviously misunderstand each other...when you brought the notion of things being illegal into the discussion I just thought 'meh' plenty stuff illegal that plenty people in public eye get away with - poor logic there - perfect example of why these discussions can't be carried out online

[Sized]

If an athlete gets caught with illegal drugs in their system, they can get a lifetime ban from the sport, and therefor lose their career. Why should singers be treated any differently?

 

Because it wouldn't be perceived that they were gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors, also music is not a competition.

 

Whether you like it or not, think its right or wrong, the fact is drugs and music go together. I'm not talking Heroin or Cocaine but Cannabis, speed, Ecstasy etc enhances the experience of playing, listening and writing music and without them most of the music we ALL love to listen to from the past and present probably wouldn't exist.

 

I'm not saying drugs are good and everyone should take them (far from it), but people that do, do it for a reason. Those that do it to the point of self destruction would probably find another way if drugs weren't available, like Alcohol, its legal but is that really any different/better?

 

Just for information, I don't take drugs any more because drug testing is regular in the work I've done for the last 13 - 14 years so I chose to sacrifice that for the sake of having a good job and earning good money, so I drink alcohol instead (not at work ) and I enjoy it But if both were legal and I had to choose between drink or drugs, I would choose drugs. In the 8 years I was a regular Pot smoker with weekends spent on speed or the occasional 'e' I NEVER had a bad experience, felt ill, had a hangover, got in a fight, or trouble with the law. I found it enhanced the pleasure in everything I enjoyed, music, films, sex and even the most simple things like laying on the sea-wall and staring at the stars.

 

 

I suppose my point is - its not the drugs that is the problem its the people that take them and their attitude to life.

 

Well said that man

[Chesterfield]

All cleared up Vik Apologies for any confusion.

 

I suppose another question would be, how many more people like Amy Winehouse do the public need to see wither and die, before something similar to my logic is implemented by a government? It seems to be the way that authorities dont deal with a problem my targetting specific offenders or problems, but impose some wide sweeping legislation that is designed to catch all, invariably causing a whole new mess in the process.