The value of a Degree

[elfman]

Right, my friends and i have had this discussion on going for months so i thought i'd hear peoples takes on it.

 

One of my friends goes to teeside uni, another goes to Durham uni. The person who goes to Durham uni feels and tries to justify that his degree is "better" and "more valuable" than my friend who goes to teeside uni.

 

they've both got 2:1's for the degree's granted in different subjects but he still claims that because he got his degree and Durham uni, and it's supposidly up there with Oxford, Cambridge etc that it's worth more and if an employer had both of them in a room he'd choose him.

 

So, is a degree from one uni, worth more than another, and would an employer choose someone with a say 1st from a higher uni, over someone with a 2:1 from a lower uni, but has more work experience.

 

DISCUSS!

[Sarnie]

Yes, of course a degree from a higher level uni is deemed to be better.

 

There are some Uni's that a monkey can get into, not everyone get's into the 'Red brick' University's.

[martinmac]

I would say its to a very large extent the relevance of the degree to the job title.

 

In my mind unless its directly related such as in the field of law or medicine it proves a degree of ability and intelligence. I would say that its largely down to how the person interviews.

[Chris`I]

Degree's from different institutions are most definately worth more or less depending mainly on the type of University that is awarding it and also how high said University is in ranking tables overall and the specific subject of the degree.

 

Socalled Redbrick Universities always rank higher than others as they are seen as historically "good" Universities and a safe bet when it comes to choosing a new employee from two candidates with the same qualifications. I am lucky in that I went to two redbricks (Exeter and Reading) and have had it mentioned to me on numerous occasions that it is a benefit to have my degrees from these two places (BSc from Exeter and MSc from Reading).

 

In terms of normal rankings for specific subjects, employers will awlays be on the lookout for their prefered Universities which they see as a good institution for their speciality. Reading for example is very highly regarded for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics within the computing field.

 

So your friend is right in that his degree from Durham is worth more than his friends, but only if Teeside is not higher ranked for the specific subject being talked about

[Ruddles]

The employer would pick the person with experience!

[Jay]

Iwould like to think that the person with the degree from a better university hold more value to a potential employer. I have a Business degree specialising in HRM and Marketing from The University Of Strathclyde which is ranked one of the top Universities for Business in the U.K. So an employer should look at this and see that the standard of candidates should be higher than say of.... Caledonian University ( In Business Degree's) I deliberately choose Strathclyde because of its reputation but also because it is known to have extremely harsh markers and harder tests (crazy I know) But as soon as an employer sees B.A. Hons Strathclyde that immediately goes to your advantage and potentially secure you a job over another candidate. IMO.

[coldel]

Its a good point, I took a year out from uni to work in an office environment using my uni skills. Gave me a massive advantage over those without that and all the interviews I went to said it was a big advantage.

 

Also, some Uni's have better departments than others, I went to lowly Coventry University and ended up house sharing with some final year students for a couple of months. They all had got 5 As at A Level and were on the vehicle design course at Uni, which as it turns out was the best in the country, in fact is globally renowned. They built some of the Thurst II car at Cov Uni which broke the landspeed record whilst I was there, those guys I house shared with ended up working for Suzuki/Kawasaki straight out of uni on salaries of £100k+

 

...for the record, I was not on the vehicle design course

[Husky]

Yes, of course a degree from a higher level uni is deemed to be better.

 

There are some Uni's that a monkey can get into, not everyone get's into the 'Red brick' University's.

absolutely +1

 

But as stated, experience trumps this.

[rtbiscuit]

not just the right uni but the right course,

 

i went to Coventry Uni as well, and did their engineering Design and Technology course, which was accredited by MECHENG, usually if a degree isn't acredited its noy as valuable.

 

i also did industrial product design there as well.

 

good uni, good rep in engineering and good courses, ford, jag pug all send their employees there for training.

[James B]

Agree with Sarnie. There's a world of difference between the degree achieved at an ex poly and a 'red brick' university such as Cambridge, Oxford, Exeter, Durham etc. If you take Oxford or Cambridge for instance, these institutions typically require at least 3 A's at A level AND also require an interview and an additional exam (they consider A level's to be very easy to get an A in).

 

The overall value of a degree is a far broader question. I'm of the opinion that so many go to univeristy, many degrees (and I speak of the lower uni's) become pointless and self defeating. The diverse and irrelevant topic's like 'ice cream & sports studies' blow my mind. Even one's like film studies. Unless you get into a redbrick or need to study in a subject that absolutely requires a degree, such as accountant, architect, doctor etc it's unnecessary. Even for some of those professions (accounting for instance) I think starting at the very bottom and training while you work is often a better route. Certainly a young school leaver joining a program with a company like PWC at 16 and working hard will probably end up a year ahead of those that go an do a degree, then post grad training.

 

I think students need to be encouraged to think 'why' they want to go uni, what their goals are and what the best ways are to achieve those goals. Simply telling everyone they must go to uni, withour proper consideration, leads to masses of people leaving uni at 22-22, massively in debt, wet behind the ears and with no better idea of what they want to do with their lives (maybe even more confused) than when they went in.

 

As a country I think we should invest more (and I mean ALOT more) in on the job training (with recognised vocational qualifications) and practical development. To put it into the frame I did an HND in Business at Demontfort, and while I know it hasn't done me any harm, I'm even more certain that either working harder and going to a redbrick or just getting my head down would have been a better life choice.

 

Just my thoughts though.............

[coldel]

Reminded me of something that happened a couple of years back, the company I used to work for had an annual graduate intake every year, we called them the 'grad group' and as experienced employees we made sure they made the transition from education to business as easily as possible. Then we got a new CEO who had some very odd approaches to business, he decided that we only take in Oxford or Cambridge students. They joined to much fanfare but they were shocked to find out they had to learn the basics of market research like checking data, creating reports and the like, they thought they were going to walk into a role whereby they would be able to go home and tell mummy and daddy how they are in charge of the global Coca Cola account or similar.

 

Anyway, after 3 months they demanded pay rises and promotions as 'they were grads and the rest of us were just normal workers, as such they were better qualified than us and deserved more' - I was in the meeting where this happened and it was brutal...

 

...you can have the best qualification from the best uni but the character of the person is just as important. A Geordie Taxi driver once said to me 'common sense isnt common' which I think goes a long way here.

[James B]

Reminded me of something that happened a couple of years back, the company I used to work for had an annual graduate intake every year, we called them the 'grad group' and as experienced employees we made sure they made the transition from education to business as easily as possible. Then we got a new CEO who had some very odd approaches to business, he decided that we only take in Oxford or Cambridge students. They joined to much fanfare but they were shocked to find out they had to learn the basics of market research like checking data, creating reports and the like, they thought they were going to walk into a role whereby they would be able to go home and tell mummy and daddy how they are in charge of the global Coca Cola account or similar.

 

Anyway, after 3 months they demanded pay rises and promotions as 'they were grads and the rest of us were just normal workers, as such they were better qualified than us and deserved more' - I was in the meeting where this happened and it was brutal...

 

...you can have the best qualification from the best uni but the character of the person is just as important. A Geordie Taxi driver once said to me 'common sense isnt common' which I think goes a long way here.

 

Love it!

 

There are some seriously gritty, genius types that come from top uni's but as you say there are plenty with their heads in the sky, thinking they're going to walk into a board level appointment, ages 23 because of where they went to uni.

 

Got a guy that joined our software company in my team (sales consultants). He's got a 1st and a masters from Oxford, but after being here for 6 months hasn't closed a bean. Absolutely smashing guy and sure he could win a Nobel prize, but real life stuff....... Not so much!

[TomS]

All comes down to the area the degree is in I think. My degree has so far counted towards nothing in my career. What I did after getting my degree in working self employed for 6months did.

 

But then if I was trying to be a lawyer or doctor then going to the university I did, even getting a 1st wouldn't look as good as going to one of the top 5 in the country.

[coldel]

It is a challenge taking education into business reality - something I am challenged with right now is a guy we have who is one of the best qualified in behavioural economics aged just 26 and just out of doing a PHD etc. Problem is that he cannot turn his brilliance into a practical business solution so I am on a very steep learning curve to try and understand what he is talking about so can guide him to create something that actually works in reality!

[EH 370z]

My wife and I had a crisis meeting some years ago.

I was sick of my job, and she was unfulfilled with hers. I didn’t know what to, do but she felt like becoming a solicitor! Winner, I thought early retirement here we come (not the pensions things again, promise!)

She enrolled at Teesside University, only to find out that the degree school was important. Wasted a year finding that out. Then began again at Northumbria University Law School (an hour away!) Plus they also did the Legal Practise course which you need to qualify which can only be done at a handful of universities in the country.

Now the rub: 7 years later, a good degree qualification, a commendation in the LPC and god knows how much spent on tuition fees and petrol getting up and down the road, late nights and crummy part time jobs, she can’t get a traineeship, as nobody is hiring. What a depressing waste of time.

Plan B: Move to Canada.

[docwra]

Agree with Sarnie. There's a world of difference between the degree achieved at an ex poly and a 'red brick' university such as Cambridge, Oxford, Exeter, Durham etc. If you take Oxford or Cambridge for instance, these institutions typically require at least 3 A's at A level AND also require an interview and an additional exam (they consider A level's to be very easy to get an A in).

 

But conversely, a teaching degree (B.Ed) from De Montfort is generally considered to be superior to one from Cambridge .......

 

I remember it with my A levels - my college offered two different examining board courses and one was substantially easier than the other. Unfortunately, unlike universities people dont tend to know the difference between two maths A levels and everyone who took the harder course wished they had done the easier one ........

 

Likewise, if youve had one good candidate from Rubbishtown Polytechnic and a bad one from Warwick Uni, for example, you would probably lean towards Rubbishtown regardless just through personal experience.

 

As an employer myself, I have to say I would only really be additonally impressed by Oxbridge, Edinburgh and maybe a couple of other universities on someones CV

[coldel]

I think its more granular than just 'what uni did you go to' as Rich said he went to Coventry University to get his engineering qualification and instantly I think yet I bet most people think Coventry university is not worth tuppence.

 

Its got to be about the courses...employers worth their salt should know what Uni's do the best degrees in their fields.

[rtbiscuit]

my general rule of thumb is if the course ends in the word "studies" its not worth doing if its an "ology" it has some value.

 

i may now have condemned myself to dooom for such a heretic comment, but its a general rule of thumb that seems to work well.

[coldel]

Maybe its time to change my CV to Statistics and Economicology

[SnailHerder]

I studied at Durham for my Masters degree and I think it's opened a few doors for me. Even though it was in a relatively useless subject (Contemporary Sociology ) having that Durham name on my CV seems to help it filter to the top of the pile.

 

However, that's where - in my experience - the advantage ends. It gets me a chance to put myself forward to an employer, but I still have to prove myself in an interview and then perform in a job. Having relevant experience is more important, but my Durham degree has given me chances to gain that experience and get a foot in the door.

[Michael robinson]

In my opinion it depend on what the degree is in and the experience the person holds ,

for example

when I went for my job as a engineer there was me ( the numpty with a collage nvq but experience and time on the job ) And two lads fresh out of uni with a engineering degree's with no experience or ideas of how to do things real world as they had been confined to a class room for 3-4 year of there life.

No doubt they would of kicked my arse in the paper work department but on the tools experience is everything

[James B]

My wife and I had a crisis meeting some years ago.

I was sick of my job, and she was unfulfilled with hers. I didn’t know what to, do but she felt like becoming a solicitor! Winner, I thought early retirement here we come (not the pensions things again, promise!)

She enrolled at Teesside University, only to find out that the degree school was important. Wasted a year finding that out. Then began again at Northumbria University Law School (an hour away!) Plus they also did the Legal Practise course which you need to qualify which can only be done at a handful of universities in the country.

Now the rub: 7 years later, a good degree qualification, a commendation in the LPC and god knows how much spent on tuition fees and petrol getting up and down the road, late nights and crummy part time jobs, she can’t get a traineeship, as nobody is hiring. What a depressing waste of time.

Plan B: Move to Canada.

 

 

Funny (not haha) that you say that. My missus is a solicitor (went to exeter btw) and managed to get a training contract which, incidentally, there are twice as many people needing training contracts as their are available. She was telling me not long ago, that she later realised it's possible to do an ILEX (institute of legal exec's) then a top up to be able to become a fully qualified solicitor. In fact its far easier to get a legal temp job and do ILEX as an 'on the job training' and top up as you go.

 

It's another perfect example of people getting herded into the university system despite the fact, in this type of scenario, it's flawed and for many leads to another dead end. What we need (refering back to my earlier rant) is a clear and organised methodology for people to train and improve themselves.

 

If your wife wants to chat to my missus I'm sure I could set something up. Can't promise she'll be able to give you a magic answer but after being through it she may be able to shine a light and show a way through. PM me if you want.

[Chris`I]

Reminded me of something that happened a couple of years back, the company I used to work for had an annual graduate intake every year, we called them the 'grad group' and as experienced employees we made sure they made the transition from education to business as easily as possible. Then we got a new CEO who had some very odd approaches to business, he decided that we only take in Oxford or Cambridge students. They joined to much fanfare but they were shocked to find out they had to learn the basics of market research like checking data, creating reports and the like, they thought they were going to walk into a role whereby they would be able to go home and tell mummy and daddy how they are in charge of the global Coca Cola account or similar.

 

Anyway, after 3 months they demanded pay rises and promotions as 'they were grads and the rest of us were just normal workers, as such they were better qualified than us and deserved more' - I was in the meeting where this happened and it was brutal...

 

...you can have the best qualification from the best uni but the character of the person is just as important. A Geordie Taxi driver once said to me 'common sense isnt common' which I think goes a long way here.

You'd have liked my Dad, he was the exact opposite to that - he refused to hire Oxbridge grads as generally have no business accumen or common sense. He'd probably didnt give them a payrise ever as they dont really need a job as Mummy and Daddy will look after them

[EH 370z]

Thanks JamesB

I might just do that, she is now just got into Citizens Advice (working for free I might add!) this may open a few doors but certainly the course you mentioned could be a winner - Cheers

[Lexx]

*checks over his shoulder*

 

....

 

My gf has got a BSc and Doctorate from Durham uni, and she actually works their now.

 

Whilst I would say that it shouldn't matter which uni you got your degree from, it will always be the case that the established uni's will be deemed to be better.

It wasnt that long ago that Teesside Uni was a polytechnic.

 

But I don't care.....I don't have any degree's!