The G Man Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Don't know too much about the 350's weight, what I do know is the 370's exhaust system weighs the equivalent of a small house, also the wheels, on a GT spec at anyrate, are bigger than a 350's. Again I've no idea of the differnt weights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 You only have to look at that bleeding great strutbrace in the boot, the similarly large one under the boot floor and the additional bracing all over the car to see the reason its heavier is the original design wasnt stiff enough. IMO at least. Why didnt you just say that in the first place then And I thought the 370z was a tiny bit lighter than the last 350z? Thats what they were trying to sell it as anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK350Z Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The RX8 is a contemporary of the Z33, and the RX7 and 200SX stopped being produced in 2002 when the Z33 was first built. Why are these cars 300KG lighter when they arent really very different - the S15 200SX is made by the same company! Even a 2009 911 is under 1400KGs, a Cayman is under 1300 Answered your own question there. S15 is an older design, and designed to older regs. The RX8 is more comparable, but smaller engine, tank, brakes, and being physically smaller soon make up 200kg. Porches weight is of course going to be much less when you look at the retail prices! 370Z is a shade lighter according to my unscientific look at the back of EVO. Carbon seats and a Ti exhaust would soon lose you 50Kg+ from a 350Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 i think they realised who the type of driver the end user would be for the Zed so built it to battering ram specification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Answered your own question there. S15 is an older design, and designed to older regs. The RX8 is more comparable, but smaller engine, tank, brakes, and being physically smaller soon make up 200kg. The RX8 has a lot more space and the engine is only 40Kg's lighter, when you are talking about brakes as heavy items then you are clutching at straws Im afraid ....... The Silvia was released 2 years bvefore the Z33, and its not very similar to an S14 at all, its a lot stiffer and has additional crash protection. I could find loads of examples but I dont need to, the Zed is a heavy car for what it is. You only have to look at that bleeding great strutbrace in the boot, the similarly large one under the boot floor and the additional bracing all over the car to see the reason its heavier is the original design wasnt stiff enough. IMO at least. Why didnt you just say that in the first place then And I thought the 370z was a tiny bit lighter than the last 350z? Thats what they were trying to sell it as anyway. I actually only noticed the other day when I was having coilovers fitted just how much excess metal there is under the car, its more than on my convertible S13. Id have thought the major driving force behind the design of the 370 would be to get rid of some of this metal (and weight) but its not "noticeably" lighter at all. Shame, as I really think the VQ35 would benefit from not having to drag round all that extra lard ....... one day my VQ35DE S13 will show the world this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Admitedly the 370z isnt noticeably lighter, but it is stiffer and handles better than a 350z so they got one thing right at least. I do find it supprising with what you are saying that they didnt try to reduce the extra bracing in the 370z and thus reduce weight. There must be a reason for it all, they wouldnt just do it for fun! And if its down to poor design, they could have saved a fortune by now in raw materials by using less I havent had the opportunity to get under many other cars than the 350z or 370z so dont have anything to compare against with these things. I do know my mates Evo weighs about the same as my 350z did, and although that was 4WD, the Zed undercarridge looked quite a bit beefier. Seeing my flywheel changed on the 350z it made me realise how much weight was in the gearbox, maybe we have heavy gearboxes and diffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I've never driven a standard 350z so Im unable to compare but from what I seen in Wales with the g man is that 370z looked very soggy on track and could really benefit from better springs/shockers. The standard 370z's handling is nowhere near as precise and accurate as the way my car handles. As I said i can only imagine what a standard 350z is like but from following and watching the body roll, it looked pretty poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 if you think the zed suspension is poor, go try a drive in an old citreon AX its like someone replaced the springs with actual Jelly. it doesn't just roll, i swear you could grind the sills on a hard turn in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I've never driven a standard 350z so Im unable to compare but from what I seen in Wales with the g man is that 370z looked very soggy on track and could really benefit from better springs/shockers. The standard 370z's handling is nowhere near as precise and accurate as the way my car handles. As I said i can only imagine what a standard 350z is like but from following and watching the body roll, it looked pretty poor Supprising as the comments I had in Wales was that my car was railing the corners better than the 350z, being noticably flatter. It certainly feels like it too. Having KW V3 does make you a little better than the OEM setup to say the least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Even a 2009 911 is under 1400KGs, a Cayman is under 1300 2008 and on C2 manual is 1415kg DIN, Cayman manual is 1330kg DIN. S models are about 20kg more, and then another 30kg if you go PDK. Not to mention the extra weight all the options make: The adaptive sports seats (which I've got) weigh about the same as a teenager each! Trust me, these cars are not going to be far off the weight of a Zed when they come to the market. The Zeds could've been a lot lighter, but then they would've cost a lot more. They might've been able to knock 100kgs off the weight at the cost of another £10K on RRP, and I know which I'd prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I've never driven a standard 350z so Im unable to compare but from what I seen in Wales with the g man is that 370z looked very soggy on track and could really benefit from better springs/shockers. The standard 370z's handling is nowhere near as precise and accurate as the way my car handles. As I said i can only imagine what a standard 350z is like but from following and watching the body roll, it looked pretty poor Supprising as the comments I had in Wales was that my car was railing the corners better than the 350z, being noticably flatter. It certainly feels like it too. Having KW V3 does make you a little better than the OEM setup to say the least I would like you to elaborate on this remark. I have KW V3 and I am quite happy with how my car drives but I have no idea how much of adifference it makes. I know it is close to impossible to quantify, but I would very much appreciate if you could elaborate on how you think/feel/believe the KW V3 setup is better than OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I've never driven a standard 350z so Im unable to compare but from what I seen in Wales with the g man is that 370z looked very soggy on track and could really benefit from better springs/shockers. The standard 370z's handling is nowhere near as precise and accurate as the way my car handles. As I said i can only imagine what a standard 350z is like but from following and watching the body roll, it looked pretty poor Supprising as the comments I had in Wales was that my car was railing the corners better than the 350z, being noticably flatter. It certainly feels like it too. Having KW V3 does make you a little better than the OEM setup to say the least Lol even my car with eibachs was absolutely astonishing handling wise. The kw's did make the car feel alot more planted and "attached" to the tarmac. Maybe my judgement is just poor lol. The track day at Wales did have very fast corners on it with entry and drive through speeds of over 80-90mph. George actually came of saying that he was gonna buy eibachs to try and give it more of a planted feel. Ill need to ask him for a shot of his and see for myself ... Eh George? I will add when I was out in his 370z for the first time the other night it was awesome. The interior is fantastic and the drive and ride quality was awesome. Doubled up with the beautiful song of the hfc's and akrapovic exhaust it definately changed my opinion of them. I wasn't a fan before if I'm completely honest but he sold it to me well on a nice country drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I've never driven a standard 350z so Im unable to compare but from what I seen in Wales with the g man is that 370z looked very soggy on track and could really benefit from better springs/shockers. The standard 370z's handling is nowhere near as precise and accurate as the way my car handles. As I said i can only imagine what a standard 350z is like but from following and watching the body roll, it looked pretty poor Supprising as the comments I had in Wales was that my car was railing the corners better than the 350z, being noticably flatter. It certainly feels like it too. Having KW V3 does make you a little better than the OEM setup to say the least I would like you to elaborate on this remark. I have KW V3 and I am quite happy with how my car drives but I have no idea how much of adifference it makes. I know it is close to impossible to quantify, but I would very much appreciate if you could elaborate on how you think/feel/believe the KW V3 setup is better than OEM. Its like day and night. I will let owners with KW V3 ellaborate, but honestly, it makes a massive difference to go to any decent coilover setup. The car rides flatter in the bends, its more compliant over bumps and just feels tigher all together. What you can say against them though is that a good setup for fast road driving/track driving is not the best for an all out GT car, which the 350z is meant to be. Aftermarket coilovers make it handle like a sports car, but I'm not sure how I would handle say driving to the South of France in a car set up well for the track/fast road - not unless you set them up specifically for that of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Coilovers make it handle like a sports car, but I'm not sure how I would handle say driving to the South of France in a car set up well for the track/fast road - not unless you set them up specifically for that of course. My father believes I have no suspension in the car at all and it feels great for fast road (130-150mph on the autobahn) and also feels good on the track. So I believe I have a good setup for sportscar like handling. I have done 500mile trips to Denmark several times and never feel physically knackered. But then again I am not the most comfort seeking person I know of. Aynway I really like the way my car handles in all situations, and I can only recommend a KWV3 setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 All Zeds already have coilovers at the front and unless you're planning on converting the rears they'll always have coilovers only on the front. The difference is between OEM and aftermarket, not non-coilovers and coilovers. /pet hate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 All Zeds already have coilovers at the front and unless you're planning on converting the rears they'll always have coilovers only on the front. The difference is between OEM and aftermarket, not non-coilovers and coilovers. /pet hate Oh you know what I mean Mr Pedantic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 WOOO! PEDANT ALERT!! Having just had HSD's fitted on mine (which wont be as good as KW's) Im amazed that every single aspect of the handling and ride is better - more control and more comfort - it would appear that there is quite a lot of room for improvement over the standard set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricey Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The RX8 has a lot more space and the engine is only 40Kg's lighter, when you are talking about brakes as heavy items then you are clutching at straws Im afraid ....... Space doesn't weight anything though - its just fresh air There's no way the 8 engine is only 40kg lighter than the Zeds...........it weighs about as much as a hamsters sack, the pathetic, hateful little revvy piece of crap. Sometimes you can just feel that a car is more substantial - the Zed feels a much more substantial car than the 8 - its as if you wear the Zed and drive an 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I've never driven a standard 350z so Im unable to compare but from what I seen in Wales with the g man is that 370z looked very soggy on track and could really benefit from better springs/shockers. The standard 370z's handling is nowhere near as precise and accurate as the way my car handles. As I said i can only imagine what a standard 350z is like but from following and watching the body roll, it looked pretty poor Supprising as the comments I had in Wales was that my car was railing the corners better than the 350z, being noticably flatter. It certainly feels like it too. Having KW V3 does make you a little better than the OEM setup to say the least Lol even my car with eibachs was absolutely astonishing handling wise. The kw's did make the car feel alot more planted and "attached" to the tarmac. Maybe my judgement is just poor lol. The track day at Wales did have very fast corners on it with entry and drive through speeds of over 80-90mph. George actually came of saying that he was gonna buy eibachs to try and give it more of a planted feel. Ill need to ask him for a shot of his and see for myself ... Eh George? I will add when I was out in his 370z for the first time the other night it was awesome. The interior is fantastic and the drive and ride quality was awesome. Doubled up with the beautiful song of the hfc's and akrapovic exhaust it definately changed my opinion of them. I wasn't a fan before if I'm completely honest but he sold it to me well on a nice country drive Yup, definately felt that the ride was a bit high, if that's the right term. It took me a whole summer to get on top of my old 8, the 370 is a different beast altogether. I'm only just starting to find my feet with her, now that we're in full summer flow If I took her on a track now, just a few months down the line, it'd be a different drive and driver. That was probably part of it when I took you out for a spin Neil, I'll maybe let you loose for a few laps on our next trackday As for the RX8 engine being only 40kg lighter, I don't quite think that, that is right, the RX8's advantage is that it's near as dammit a mid engined car, so far back that it has to be small. It also has aluminium rear doors and bonnet, oh and only 4 spark plugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveparkin Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Hi, Did Nissan not just make the door skins out of 1/2-inch plate, to protect against all the careless door opening in carparks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrh Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The Silvia was released 2 years bvefore the Z33, and its not very similar to an S14 at all The S15 was just a facelift of the S14, proven by the fact that most oily bits fit both (speaking as a former S14a owner). The real reason the Z33 is so heavy is because it's a cut 'n shut of the V35 Skyline saloon. It's a foot shorter but the extra bracing for the big hatch means it ends up weighing about the same. Nissan was on its knees in the late 90's and couldn't afford to design replacements for its ageing sports car platforms which would meet global crash regs for the next ~10 years. That's why the S and R platforms were only facelifted for the domestic market and the Z was designed quickly (~2 years) and cheaply based upon existing tech. The lighter engine and lower torque of the RX8 means that the engine bay, gearbox, drive shafts, hubs, etc.. don't need to be so heavy duty. If the RX8 shares any bits with another Mazda it'll be with another light weight car, the MX5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garetgax Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 well from my perpesctive on the handling side weve FK lowering spring on ours and its very bouncy. Compared to the 3 impreza's, one evo and even the lumbering st185 GT4 that we've had, all had either teins or bc coliovers on ( the gt4 had koni's on), the zed reminds me of the fto we had on eom struts that was very pitchy and not very planted at all. The only reason i've not had a set of BC's (they are just as good as kw's but are far better value imho) is ive no plans to track the zed. If I did though id be looking at new bushes,bc's,uprated arbs as a minimum. It does seem once you scratch the surface of the zed it is a bit all style and not enough substance, if you look at it its handling isnt great, its heavy, its power plant doesnt really generate a lot of power given its a 3.5l engine it probably should have been FI out of the factory. Its a shame really as it could be sooooo much more. Mind you the same could be said for the FTO..... a pretty car with now substance, if the FTO had the evos drive train, suspension and had been FI (the FI mivec engine configuration was eventually put into the 9/10 evo) it would have been a storming car, instead it never quite delivered. I would say though we looked at both the zed and the RX8 and for reliability alone is was an easy choice add to that the fact the rear seats in the RX are horrible. Oh and RX's depreciate like a stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The Silvia was released 2 years bvefore the Z33, and its not very similar to an S14 at all The S15 was just a facelift of the S14, proven by the fact that most oily bits fit both (speaking as a former S14a owner). OK. I was speaking as someone who has had both (at least for a weekend for the S15), and as Club Secretary and Treasurer of the owners club. The S15 is immensely stiffer than the S14 and has a fair old amount of additional bracing. Unfortunately the pics are gone but you get the idea: http://www.driftworks.com/forum/technic ... acing.html The lighter engine and lower torque of the RX8 means that the engine bay, gearbox, drive shafts, hubs, etc.. don't need to be so heavy duty. If the RX8 shares any bits with another Mazda it'll be with another light weight car, the MX5. I like the way everyone is claiming the engine weight I put up on the last two pages isnt right, I didnt make it up - anyway, I fail to see what engine weight has to do with the gearbox or other dynamic components. The torque might affect it, sure, but this one: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car ... ialty_file has 290lb/ft and is turboed but has only had the clutch changed, and I know of others running standard driveshafts, gearboxes and hubs?? with much more power than standard. I also know people running MX5's with much more power than standard without changing the drivetrain. In fact, who changes hubs anyway?? Is it when you want to convert it to run on rails or something?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrh Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I know the S15 has some additional bracing to improve handling but most of the chassis is identical and only designed to 90's crash regulations. this one: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car ... ialty_file has 290lb/ft and is turboed but has only had the clutch changed There are Z's putting 600+lb/ft through the stock running gear (gearbox, prop, diff, hubs...) so it is built for heavier duty. RX-8 350Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Yes, and there are cossies, 200SX's, Skylines and all manner of other cars putting 600lb/ft through much older and weaker designs too. How much do you think an uprated driveshaft adds? 1kg each side? Maybe 2? The prop is another what, 3KG?? An RX8 has two extra doors man! They must be at least 25KG each!! In that pic of the Zeds rear suspension setup, I wonder how much of that was additional bracing added after the first design?? Thats where the weight is for me, a patch to solve a wobbly body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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