elfman Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Yes but how do you know the tyres aren't spinning? TCS can measure front wheel speed vs rear wheel speed to determine if rear wheels are spinning (Ie rotating faster than the fronts), how can you tell? They might be spinning but not enough to course any alarm i.e coming out of a junction putting your foot down and not going saideways or the backend kicking out at all? Nothing wrong with the tyres slipping a little as long as it's all under control? suppose it's all down to experience and if you want to take the risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 That's some pretty cool stuff mate. I agree that many people will never realise the potential the zed has. Once the tyres are upto temp the car is very predictable and progressive. Even when it slides out it's very stable and I feel safe doing it. I have been clocking up many hours of track driving trying to improve and get more confident. My ability runs out well before the car but that will come with time. What the zed does lack is straight line speed. It handles beautifully but takes it's time on the straight. Hopefully the nitrous install will help take that feel away from it. Do you drift the zed docrwa? Do you do it professionally ? I have been known to 8 sets of rear tyres in the first 13 months kinda suggests that I have done, though I try not to now Ive got 19's on the back. Im not in competition as I dont have the time (Im too competitive anyway, cant stand losing and Im not good enough to win ) but I am certainly "pretty good" - I can drift in 4th gear and have seen entry speeds of over 100mph, and Im quite happy twin/triple/train drifting with people As Ive said before, when you are happy going round a private roundabout on the lockstops banging off the limiter in 3rd, a bit of a TCS flash isnt quite such a concern. If you dont ever see the light then IMO you arent using the car to its capability - I saw it on my first test drive Like a rev limiter its there for a reason, its not a bad thing if it flashes up. The TCS is definitely a bit too quick to come in, but its a safety device and as such works well. Ive known a couple of lads with MK IV Supras get to 90 degrees before it kicks in, and you can imagine what happens then ............ Remember, youve got traction control under your right foot as well ............ ITs actually a pretty safe car to slide, its very square on the road, progressive and predictable when comared to an S2K or even an RX8 - I think a lot of drivers would benefit from some additional training as I think you would be suprised just how capable these cars are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I have done track days, also a few of those fun experience events where you jump in Ferraris etc and I thought it was pretty easy to 'feel' the rears starting to go or to spin, lots of telltale signs like the rev counter jumping, noise, back end wobble etc - I am sure most people notice this when the wheels are spinning even when its ever so slightly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 tee hee, sorry Rich Both my MR2 roadster and the S2000 had no TCS or driver aids; and i drove both through the winter, the MR2 was intersting as well as it was mid engined. and it was the car i learnt the hard way with driving limits etc. nothing wrong with no TCS you just need to make sure you know how to drive it. as i and husky have said nefore, leave it on in the wet, turn it off in the dry. or if your not confident or inexperienced in RWD then leave it on all the time. no pictures, i think my mate mark has them on his computer, or they may even be in the MR@ROC back room somewhere. i learnt the hard way, doing a 360 off a wet roundabout across 2 bollards, 2 signposts and stopping 3 inches from the central reservation. my first RWD car and i was 23 i thought i was invincible and a driving God; i learnt otherwise, and thats where i gained respect for how to drive RWD properly. the problem with the MR2 being mid engined and RWD which most on here won't have experienced in the zed is that when the car starts to let go there is a very small correction window beofre it snaps and spins. i had a good grasp and ability in the car, but the one wet day home from work when i wasn;t paying attention and tired. it bit my arm off. the crash wasn't that bad, and more an issue of pride. the car was repaired and all was good but i then i had the increase in insurance premiums etc. you end up paying for it long after the crash. I have since then done driving days airfield days, track days etc, and just general 8 years of driving RWD. most people i find accelerate to early out of corners or go to fast in. they don't balance the throttle well with the weight of the turn. they use the throttle like an on/off switch. the biggest thing with RWD is being smooth, thats the throttle repsonse, steering and braking, etc even on the limit, with the car breaking traction; if your ham footed you'll spin, thats not to say you can't drive aggressivly; but you need to be smooth while doing it. i qualified for the Nissan Free race last year, and out of 500 entrants i got down to the top 50; i saw alot of very cocky and confident drivers down there, and alot coming from FWD who had not been in RWD before, and it was very funny to see the difference in their attitude coming out of the car compared to going in. any fool can go fast in a straight line, but it takes skill to go fast round a corner. and if you're breaking traction while doing it (unless you intend to drift) the car is no longer in control and going to lose speed in the corner. just becuase tyres are screaming doesn;t make it fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Yes but how do you know the tyres aren't spinning? TCS can measure front wheel speed vs rear wheel speed to determine if rear wheels are spinning (Ie rotating faster than the fronts), how can you tell? They might be spinning but not enough to course any alarm i.e coming out of a junction putting your foot down and not going saideways or the backend kicking out at all? Nothing wrong with the tyres slipping a little as long as it's all under control? suppose it's all down to experience and if you want to take the risk +1 The 350Z, whilst not the last word in precision handling is a sweet thing to hustle. I personally think that practising driving without TCS makes for a more rounded driver and may even save your ass one day. When I was a yoof I used to go fishing a lot, which gave ample opportunity to practise handbrake turns on the dirt tacks around the lakes - it taught me a lot about car control. I'm not condoning big skids on public roads but driving with TCS off makes a driver a hooligan not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 i agree driving with no TCS makes for a better driver, i know on the S2k it had nothing, so you made sure you were always on the ball when driving it in the wet and snow. i would say i'm far more observant of road and weather conditions more than most. i'm hoping to do the IAM this year as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfman Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 the problem with the MR2 being mid engined and RWD which most on here won't have experienced in the zed is that when the car starts to let go there is a very small correction window beofre it snaps and spins. i know that feeling it's such a progressive car till you get that little bit past the point and it's basicly a pendulum. The mr2 was my first RWD car to and i took it very very easy to being with and then pushed it, makes you understand RWD a bit more. on an interesting note, take the car out in snow, i find that gives good experience with the back end kicking out and what happens. on a private road of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGrover Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Hmmm. It seems I do the opposite of most here. I'm far more likely to switch off TCS when I want some fun... when it's wet. It's much easier to get the rear out and safer too as I'm going way slower than I would be in the dry. Perhaps I'm just odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 agreed, i love driving in the snow, if you can control a sliding car in the snow, its easier to control it in the wet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 i'm hoping to do the IAM this year as well I passed my IAM earlier this year.... (With the TCS ON!!) WELL worth it.. I even got into the F1RST club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 i know that feeling it's such a progressive car till you get that little bit past the point and it's basicly a pendulum. The mr2 was my first RWD car to and i took it very very easy to being with and then pushed it, makes you understand RWD a bit more. I wish my brother had understood my Mk1 Supercharger more before he rolled it coming off a roundabout. I got shafted on the insurance payout for that and it was the MR2DC club insurance as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 While I agree with what most of you are saying WRT driving with TCS off makes you a better driver, I cant for one reason think why you should be lighting up TCS on the road, unless you are being ham fisted around tight bends or junctions. This is the only time my old 350z would light up the rears without giving it a lot of provoking. Its true that the TCS is very sensitive but you just have to read the first post to realise why this is. Anyone who thinks they NEED TCS off in the dry is just pushing too hard IMO. Not of course talking about those that puposefully push the car too much to make it slide, but then they should have TCS off anyway Daily driving just doesnt need TCS off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 While I agree with what most of you are saying WRT driving with TCS off makes you a better driver, I cant for one reason think why you should be lighting up TCS on the road, unless you are being ham fisted around tight bends or junctions. This is the only time my old 350z would light up the rears without giving it a lot of provoking. Its true that the TCS is very sensitive but you just have to read the first post to realise why this is. Anyone who thinks they NEED TCS off in the dry is just pushing too hard IMO. Not of course talking about those that puposefully push the car too much to make it slide, but then they should have TCS off anyway Daily driving just doesnt need TCS off thats becuase they don't have accelerator pedals, they have the new on/off switch upgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Daily driving just doesnt need TCS off But... as I said earlier... I get bogged down in 2nd taking off briskly (not stupidly) and also my TCS cuts the power in quite a few places I driver regularly. Tried with the TCS off, driving in the same style and the tires don't even start to let go. Do I have a problem with my TCS? I don;t think so, as when it IS wet, it has slapped me on the wrist once or twice, exactly when I needed it. So why not turn it off in the dry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 thats becuase they don't have accelerator pedals, they have the new on/off switch upgrade I like to think I have finesse with pedal feathering.... Maybe I don't? Would have thought the IAM would have picked up on it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 thats becuase they don't have accelerator pedals, they have the new on/off switch upgrade I like to think I have finesse with pedal feathering.... Maybe I don't? Would have thought the IAM would have picked up on it though! sorry mean joke, you may well be smooth with the pedal, but the TCS will only kick in if you give it more beans than it thinks is required. i found in the zed if you do it from standstill it doesnt like it, but if you get rolling first then its much happier and won;t kick in on lift off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 sorry mean joke, you may well be smooth with the pedal, but the TCS will only kick in if you give it more beans than it thinks is required. i found in the zed if you do it from standstill it doesnt like it, but if you get rolling first then its much happier and won;t kick in on lift off. That's the strange thing... I NEVER get it in 1st... Maybe I am more gentle in 1st? It is always 2nd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Daily driving just doesnt need TCS off But... as I said earlier... I get bogged down in 2nd taking off briskly (not stupidly) and also my TCS cuts the power in quite a few places I driver regularly. Tried with the TCS off, driving in the same style and the tires don't even start to let go. Do I have a problem with my TCS? I don;t think so, as when it IS wet, it has slapped me on the wrist once or twice, exactly when I needed it. So why not turn it off in the dry? If you have throttle finesse it shouldnt need to kick in. So maybe something is wrong with your TCS? Certainly I never had that problem. I could do laps of the Car Limits track with TCS on and it rarely lit up, only when I was really pushing it. Maybe my car was a freak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Daily driving just doesnt need TCS off But... as I said earlier... I get bogged down in 2nd taking off briskly (not stupidly) and also my TCS cuts the power in quite a few places I driver regularly. Tried with the TCS off, driving in the same style and the tires don't even start to let go. Do I have a problem with my TCS? I don;t think so, as when it IS wet, it has slapped me on the wrist once or twice, exactly when I needed it. So why not turn it off in the dry? If you have throttle finesse it shouldnt need to kick in. So maybe something is wrong with your TCS? Certainly I never had that problem. I could do laps of the Car Limits track with TCS on and it rarely lit up, only when I was really pushing it. Maybe my car was a freak? Remember suspension set up and wheel alignment has alot to do with traction aswell. I run really aggressive toe an aggressive camber. I can push very hard through a corner without any issues but if I change gear too harsh in a straight line I can get the tcs to flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I would have disagree with you Chris on this point I have booted my car out of corners with TCS and nothing, my Falkens stick fine absolutely no problem no spin no loss of control, not a hint of it in fact . Repeat the manouvre with TCS on and it kicks in rather bluntly and makes the whole episode rather lumbering. Even pulling away from lights at half throttle feeding it in with both clutch and throttle control and the TCS will on occasions make a dogs dinner of it all whereas with TCS off for the last month not a thing, lovely smooth control. Maybe it is my TCS playing up? I cant see why it is intervening on an almost daily basis when over the course of a month I havent had a single wheel spinning incident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Maybe it is my TCS playing up? I cant see why it is intervening on an almost daily basis when over the course of a month I havent had a single wheel spinning incident? That is exactly what I get! Difference in cars? Mine is 03, So WAY pre-facelift Do the newer cars have better/less intrusive TCS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The TCS is definitely a bit too quick to come in, but its a safety device and as such works well. Remember, youve got traction control under your right foot as well ............ That ^^^^^^^ is a good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Do the newer cars have better/less intrusive TCS? I've got a '07 HR and never seen the TC light no matter what I do, apart from in the snow. Maybe I just drive like a wuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Think my TCS just wasnt that sensitive then. I really had to provoke it to get it to kick in. Unless it was in a straight line of course My mate Ben can confirm I didnt hang around, I could keep up with his Evo VIII a lot of the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I never had an issue with TCS after I changed from RE040s. I like to think I'm a fairly smooth driver though. It only ever came on if I provoked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.