coldel Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I know it means less cyclists, which means more people in cars, which means more CO2 but at some point people that ride bikes on Britains roads need to take more responsibility for themselves and other road users. I am not a petrolhead that hates cyclists, I used to do a lot of cycling (and have one of my bikes up for sale at the moment) so this isn't any vinidictive rant. But I am disgusted with the majority of the cyclists on Londons roads who use the roads in a dangerous and irresponsible way. This morning on the way in to work I am approaching a small roundabout, from my left a cyclist looks at me and just goes accross it forcing me to stop in the middle of the junction and then had the front to wave his arms at me Things such as giving way to the right, stopping at red lights and not undertaking are called in effect 'the rules of the road' they are no called 'the rules for cars on roads' - something a lot of cyclists in London seem to be completely oblivious to. So how comes anyone, even people that do not have driving licences can get on a bike and ride on roads - surely at the very least they should be capable of reading road signs (in effect the theory test). On my bike I stop at red lights and I obey the rules of the road for my own and others safety - its about time cyclists in Britain learn't how to cycle as well and we could start by making cycling lessons compulsory and passing of a thoery test compulsory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I agree with you Coldel. I also think as a road user they should have compulsory insurance (3rd party minimum) I have had this argument many times.... This morning (very grey and horrible day here) I passed a cyclist on the dual carriageway with a 70mph limit. He had on dark clothes, no lights and no reflectors..... He was a statistic waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I was riding my bike a lot around Paris when I was living there - have to say the cyclists there are a mile away from the cyclists in general here in London - they stop at red lights and dont make their own decisions as to whether 'it is safe' to obey the laws of the road or not. I have seen police pulling the few cyclists in Paris who do jump lights etc - it was taken very seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailHerder Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 As someone who has been an avid cyclist - and still enjoys a pedal - I think that having been a cyclist makes you a better and more considered driver, and having been a driver makes you a better cyclist. These debates come up at work sometimes and there are always a few who say cyclists are scum and deserve to be knocked off. Frankly those people are idiots. Likewise cyclists who bomb around like they are invulnerable and not burdened by the same rules as drivers are idiots. The rules are there for their safety and those of other road users. Of course we all break the odd rule every now and then, but running red lights is pretty dumb. Round my way there's a new game with the kids on bikes and mopeds race from one side road to another opposite crossing a main road without checking for traffic. I sure hope it isn't my lovely Zed that gets dented in when Darwin catches up with one of these f*@kwits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Totally agree, I have done a fair bit of cycling including a one week jaunt on my own from Cognac to Paris - I have put some miles in on a bike in my time I am therefore much more aware of cyclists for some reason, always checking my nearside mirror for them coming up the inside when I am turning left in traffic etc. The problem I see is that people are generally very 'sheep like' on the road. If one cyclist sees another go through a red light most will follow whereas if they were on their own they might stop. Its good to cycle but it has to be drilled into cyclists heads that how the majority (and it is the majority unfortunately) cycle in London at the moment is totally unacceptable. This means sitting a test and being made aware of how bad cycling can kill - the same messages car users get. - You cant decide to break a road law because you think its safe to do so - Cars do have limited visibility, if you are wearing black and are riding a few inches off my rear left wheel I wont be able to see you - Dont ride side by side of other bikes on the road - etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I didn't believe that cyclists actually ran red lights until I saw one do it right in front of me last week, whilst turning right on a busy crossroads of all places! He was somewhat taken about when I leant out of my truck window and shouted at him as loudly as possible: "IT'S A RED LIGHT YOU F***ING IMBECILE, I HOPE YOU GET SYPHILIS AND DIE!" And yes, they were my exact words. Not big, not clever, but the ***** deserved it. I don't put many miles on my cycle myself but I am acutely aware of just how vulnerable you feel so I always give plenty of room and space when in a car and passing, and likewise when on the bike I always try and give plenty of warning when I want to change direction. I'm not perfect though, I know that, and I really wish that my bike had a rear view mirror and indicators as that would make my life so much easier/safer. There's no easy answer really, it just relies on common sense on the behalf of both parties, something which is getting less by the day sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailHerder Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 "IT'S A RED LIGHT YOU F***ING IMBECILE, I HOPE YOU GET SYPHILIS AND DIE!" I like very much! I'm not perfect though, I know that, and I really wish that my bike had a rear view mirror and indicators as that would make my life so much easier/safer. Maybe this would be of use? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/stop-light-and-directional-indicator-cycles-bikes-/120737741118?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_Bike_Lights&hash=item1c1c87b93e I don't ride in traffic these days, but would definitely get kitted up with something like this if I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 That's brilliant, I didn't know they did something like that! I may have to invest, nice one matey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzee Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Over here, there are a lot of keen cyclists/triathelete's. And some good points made above. Thing I don't seem to see happening so much now, is we always, especially in big pack or group of 3 or more, always yelled out instructions to the rest of the group, about cars from behind or in front, or oncoming, potholes (hand signals), which elleviated any kamakazi's amongst the group. Grouped them in, to keep them under control. We have the same issues, with absolute nutter temporary citizens, of both 2 and 4 wheels - everyone just needs to be more tolerant of others around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Having recently started to commute to work on the bike (only one way at the moment til I can get used to doing 18 miles each way), I can say first had that there are a lot of numpties out there on bikes and fully support some kind of bike test, even if its just theory. The amount of idiotic moves I have seen just in the past 2 weeks of commuting is unbelievable it really is. And thats not even inner city riding. On the flip side, I can now also see where bikers come from that have a go at a vast amount of car/van drivers. Just yesterday I was coming down a country lane where I knew it was not safe to overtake, so I took up the road somewhere between primary and secondar position, and yet a f'in white van man decided he wanted a go anyway. Well as you can guess, what comes around the bend but a car coming in the other direction and they nearly had a head on collision had I not backed off and let the van back in - not that I had any say on the matter! While cyclists need to learn to ride the roads properly, drivers also need proper training that if someone is taking the primary position, this means you should only overtake if you can do so safely as if you were overtaking a car, not try to squeeze through. I will now make sure I always hold the primary position properly in these cases so the feckers can't possibly try and squeeze past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK350Z Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Having recently started to commute to work on the bike (only one way at the moment til I can get used to doing 18 miles each way), I can say first had that there are a lot of numpties out there on bikes and fully support some kind of bike test, even if its just theory. The amount of idiotic moves I have seen just in the past 2 weeks of commuting is unbelievable it really is. And thats not even inner city riding. On the flip side, I can now also see where bikers come from that have a go at a vast amount of car/van drivers. Just yesterday I was coming down a country lane where I knew it was not safe to overtake, so I took up the road somewhere between primary and secondar position, and yet a f'in white van man decided he wanted a go anyway. Well as you can guess, what comes around the bend but a car coming in the other direction and they nearly had a head on collision had I not backed off and let the van back in - not that I had any say on the matter! While cyclists need to learn to ride the roads properly, drivers also need proper training that if someone is taking the primary position, this means you should only overtake if you can do so safely as if you were overtaking a car, not try to squeeze through. I will now make sure I always hold the primary position properly in these cases so the feckers can't possibly try and squeeze past So basically you are secret training for our next ride then Chris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Riding to work and back every day still wont be enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 let me enlighten you on my cyclist experience f***** hate them!!!! driving to work one evening very dark... approach roundabout see nothing to right or left all of sudden cyclist comes bombing down road on black bike dressed in black i slam brakes on and clip cyclist he goes over bonnet (after 8 months of grief can finally look back and laugh at that bit) he braked aswell so total impact of hit was about 3 mph bike was fine he was fine some lady decided to call police cause im young of ethnic minority i believe lol and drive a zed! and an ambulance aswell for good measure....police said waste of there time ambulance says waste of there time, any ways in the mean time someone hacks into my bank account 2 days later and my insurance direct debit fails and they cancel my insurance!!wont allow me to pay in full or outstanding cos knob jockey cyclist put in a claim...i had 1 option from insurance pay in full and take out a new full policy...errrr 2 insurances no thank you...reinsured with someone else and thought the bell end wont claim hes not even hurt and bike was spotless...zed wasnt humungous scratch!!!didnt miss a day off work no injuries ambulance said nothing wrong with him so i gave big fingers up to privelage insurance...turns out no matter what the situation (he had no lights no helmet no reflectors and dressed in black clothing bombing it over a roundabout) if a motor vehicle hits a cyclist no matter what situation motorists fault...apparantly we have more of a duty of care towards cyclists and pedestrians than the other way round. new insurance wont take on claim so now am currently paying 2 insurances for the zed!!!!! one to cover claim one so i can drive on the road people will claim for anything these days and cyclists seem to do it more and more and 9 times out of 10 its there fault.i live in london and its shocking see a cyclist dont go anywhere near them more unpredictable than your zed in the rain sorry had to get that off my chest lol Cycle license all the way mate my wallet can vouch for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 if a motor vehicle hits a cyclist no matter what situation motorists fault...apparantly we have more of a duty of care towards cyclists and pedestrians than the other way round. Ace. I'm going out on my bike tonight and getting knocked off by people. I'll be a millionaire by next year... Digsy, where are you mate? I need your services! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I think what is slightly different between car drivers and bike riders is that in my experience it is the majority of bike riders who ride dangerously or illegally, the majority of car drivers on the other hand drive safely obeying the rules of the road - there is a huge disparity between the two. For some reason a van, especially a white one, turns some very normal people into lunatics on the road, but there are fortunately relatively only few of them on the road. In comparison I stand at a red light and watch 90% of cyclists ride through it. You also see a lot more aggression from bike riders, I think because they are so mortally exposed compared to the relative safety of being in a car - evenso this aggression is totally unjustified. I had to intervene the other day (I was washing my car and saw all this happen) when a lady driving her car had to move further to the left and closer to the pavement because of the road narrowing at that point ahead. She had to do this to not hit oncoming traffic yet Mr Joe 'im lance armstrong' Bloggs in his lycra and yellow jersey who had not read any of the road situation ahead decided it was a great opportunity to ride up the inside of the car and nearly get squashed by her rear quarter. He started banging his fists on the car window, she stopped and he was abusing her so I went over and told him in no uncertain terms he was an idiot for trying that manouvre in the first place and its his own bloody fault for not reading the traffic conditions. I felt good for it. Anyway, a national test with a licence which must be carried and more police intervention for law breakers on bicycles would soon make roads safer than they are now. As much as I would like more tolerance and common sense on the road it just isnt going to happen without some sort of intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thing is ... we can't enforce DRIVERS licenses OR CAR insurance... How will we enforce it on bikes? Plus, I go out on my bike everyday, just twice round the block for exercise. Would I need a licence and insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 put it on axle stands exercise done and you dont have to wait for good weather then lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailHerder Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 let me enlighten you on my cyclist experience f***** hate them!!!! driving to work one evening very dark... approach roundabout see nothing to right or left all of sudden cyclist comes bombing down road on black bike dressed in black i slam brakes on and clip cyclist he goes over bonnet (after 8 months of grief can finally look back and laugh at that bit) he braked aswell so total impact of hit was about 3 mph bike was fine he was fine some lady decided to call police cause im young of ethnic minority i believe lol and drive a zed! and an ambulance aswell for good measure....police said waste of there time ambulance says waste of there time, any ways in the mean time someone hacks into my bank account 2 days later and my insurance direct debit fails and they cancel my insurance!!wont allow me to pay in full or outstanding cos knob jockey cyclist put in a claim...i had 1 option from insurance pay in full and take out a new full policy...errrr 2 insurances no thank you...reinsured with someone else and thought the bell end wont claim hes not even hurt and bike was spotless...zed wasnt humungous scratch!!!didnt miss a day off work no injuries ambulance said nothing wrong with him so i gave big fingers up to privelage insurance...turns out no matter what the situation (he had no lights no helmet no reflectors and dressed in black clothing bombing it over a roundabout) if a motor vehicle hits a cyclist no matter what situation motorists fault...apparantly we have more of a duty of care towards cyclists and pedestrians than the other way round. new insurance wont take on claim so now am currently paying 2 insurances for the zed!!!!! one to cover claim one so i can drive on the road people will claim for anything these days and cyclists seem to do it more and more and 9 times out of 10 its there fault.i live in london and its shocking see a cyclist dont go anywhere near them more unpredictable than your zed in the rain sorry had to get that off my chest lol Cycle license all the way mate my wallet can vouch for that That is a rough experience you've had there. I didn't realise that insurance companies put the onus on drivers to look after cyclists so much. I'm sure if cyclists had insurance and NCBs to look after that would be a bit different! If I may say so, the only problem is with lumping together all cyclists in one group to hate them. We all know there are good and bad drivers, likewise there are good and bad cyclists. People in my office seem to 'hate all cyclists' because one cut in front of them once. The vast majority of cyclists are concerned for their own safety and hence don't do things as stupid as bombing over roundabouts at night wearing dark clothing. You don't have to love safe cyclists, but surely they aren't worthy of hate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I drive my car on sundays just around the block, do i need a drivers licence? There are rules of the road for cyclists that actually arent in the highway code for cars - yet I would say 99% of cyclists are unaware of them. Revise at home, pop down to a test centre spend half and hour doing your theory and watch a DVD on safety etc and it will make some difference, its a start anyway. Going forwards, and in response to the post about the accident, if a cyclist is in an accident and police are called and that cyclist doesnt have a licence then they get jack and in fact if the accident was their fault they pay out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thing is ... we can't enforce DRIVERS licenses OR CAR insurance... How will we enforce it on bikes? Plus, I go out on my bike everyday, just twice round the block for exercise. Would I need a licence and insurance? Yes. Old Dorris that drives to the shops once a week to get her food shopping done then comes back and puts her car in the garage until next tuesday at 9.30 needs insurance. Bikes can inflict damage on a car by being at fault and riding badly so the rider should have to have the cover to pay for it. Insurance is a legal requirement for road users as is being able to pass a theory test and practical test. If you don't drive to a standard deemed high enough by law then the privilege is taken away from you. Not so on a bike. Any muppet can jump on a bike and inflict damage to other peoples vehicles with no liability whatsoever. The examples given in this thread show that some (not all) starndards of bicycle riding is well below par, we're not talking forgetting to signal off a round about here but proper get yourself killed things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjim Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thing is ... we can't enforce DRIVERS licenses OR CAR insurance... How will we enforce it on bikes? Plus, I go out on my bike everyday, just twice round the block for exercise. Would I need a licence and insurance? Yes. Old Dorris that drives to the shops once a week to get her food shopping done then comes back and puts her car in the garage until next tuesday at 9.30 needs insurance. Bikes can inflict damage on a car by being at fault and riding badly so the rider should have to have the cover to pay for it. Insurance is a legal requirement for road users as is being able to pass a theory test and practical test. If you don't drive to a standard deemed high enough by law then the privilege is taken away from you. Not so on a bike. Any muppet can jump on a bike and inflict damage to other peoples vehicles with no liability whatsoever. The examples given in this thread show that some (not all) starndards of bicycle riding is well below par, we're not talking forgetting to signal off a round about here but proper get yourself killed things. Suppose you are right... and I would be happy to take one. But don't you think we should enforce the cars first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 The thing is that the system of car licence and insurance is in place, and its against the law to not have it, if you are caught you are prosecuted. There are some cars out there unlicensed and uninsured but there are more with than without and as I say you will be prosecuted if caught without - with bikes nothing of the sort exists, and it should regardless of whether the car system works 100% or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I drive my car on sundays just around the block, do i need a drivers licence? . Going forwards, and in response to the post about the accident, if a cyclist is in an accident and police are called and that cyclist doesnt have a licence then they get jack and in fact if the accident was their fault they pay out. but you dont need a license to ride a bike thats where were stuck arent we? comes down to who can be put at blame everyone saw it as i hit him even though my car went from 0-3mph in straight line and he swerved around the roundabout easiest thing for them all was to blame me...believe me i tried everything to get some blame put on cyclist they werent having it for instance who would you blame in this scenario??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 I just think, with more and more people taking up bikes and with Boris sticking 20,000 rental bikes on the road in London - there has to be some control over it - at the moment it is beyond a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumping350 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 cycle lanes work if they stay in them but they always have to cross over to other side etc if they want to turn right so thats were the danger bit comes in i think, guess its not big enough of a problem for anyone up there to worry about yet...imagine you had to to pay bicycle road tax that would be pretty mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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