rothers2901 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Don’t let this thread become a place to voice your poor experiences with the police who only enforce the law not write them If only they did enforce the law, equally and fairly. +1 I have mates who are police and they would never be able to get cuffs on me if I resisted due to them being far too small and weak. Police don't had the correct education to analyse the law and that's why so many cases get dropped even before they get to court. My dog would help if you want to resit, oh and my law degree would help as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Not if you live on somewhere where you have boy racers outside your door till the early hour playing loud music, handbrake turns and causing a nuisance. Sec 59 is designed to combat ASB whilst using motor vehicles. So why arent they doing anything about it? They have powers to stop the problem you are having, yet they don't. The new additions will therefor help how? As another note - these additions may also interfere with events such as the Wales drive. 50 cars even driving fully legally but with loud exhausts etc could be construed as a nuicance to some, and what better way to up the stats than get 50 fines and tickets in a single swipe. It will be interesting to see how this develops, but I think there could be serious concequences for organised drives for car clubs. I can see that this thread could develop into a real tug of war, so off to work to help solve the problem. Not quite sure of the legal limit for the noise of which exits the rear silencer but it's about 90 decibels which is realy loud. Stood next to a Harley with staight through pipes which was street legal I would think that no one on the Wales trip would exceed this. My japspeed k1 was 112db in cabin on idle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rothers2901 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Not if you live on somewhere where you have boy racers outside your door till the early hour playing loud music, handbrake turns and causing a nuisance. Sec 59 is designed to combat ASB whilst using motor vehicles. So why arent they doing anything about it? They have powers to stop the problem you are having, yet they don't. The new additions will therefor help how? As another note - these additions may also interfere with events such as the Wales drive. 50 cars even driving fully legally but with loud exhausts etc could be construed as a nuicance to some, and what better way to up the stats than get 50 fines and tickets in a single swipe. It will be interesting to see how this develops, but I think there could be serious concequences for organised drives for car clubs. I can see that this thread could develop into a real tug of war, so off to work to help solve the problem. Not quite sure of the legal limit for the noise of which exits the rear silencer but it's about 90 decibels which is realy loud. Stood next to a Harley with staight through pipes which was street legal I would think that no one on the Wales trip would exceed this. My japspeed k1 was 112db in cabin on idle Ear plugs required then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacW Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Anyway the new legislation would never remove the option of the individual to exercise their right to a day in court. As for issuing on the spot fine this has been going on for years, seat belt, mobile phone, parking, etc which now include theft, damage and many more minor offences which would otherwise take up valuable court time. I think as well this is an important point...did someone drive without a seat belt, yes or no? Its a clear cut decision. Parking, were you over the line? Yes or No, clear cut. Undertaking, some are dangerous and need fining, some are though not so citing the example of a slow mover on the outside lane with two empty lanes inside them. Stick to the Yes No's for the police, things which are argumentative such as the undertaking example must go to a court, as invariabley most will in any case so we waste more time in the long run. Time spent with the police issuing fines and time wasted in an appeal court will always outweigh the current system in time and cost. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Its not whether the individual car is illegal, but whether the combined noise of these cars is considered a nuisance by residents. Other road users could see a convoy of cars as a nuisance or "bad behaviour". Individually all the cars could be legal, but all it takes is one copper having a bad day or down on his stats and he could ticket all 50 for causing a nuisance or driving in a manner that they deem inapropriate (convoy). It is then up to us as individuals to argue our innocence, rather than the officer prove 50 counts of guilt in court. I believe this has a lot more implications than just those which are being spouted by the media/police in cracking down on bad drivers. As for the not driving after certain hours, whos paying the dole money of all the 17-21 year olds who work after midnight and would be no nolonger able to do their job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMe Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Another road tax? Why not try tackling real problems in the country? I have a list if they're short of thing to deal with. It starts with teenage mums, lazy benefit reliant retards and goes all they through to litter and offensive chav behaviour/clothing/lingo. Undertaking is not dangerous on a motorway. Try and tell me otherwise - if I can undertake a car then that car is in the wrong lane, not I, and therefore they are at fault, not me. I openly admit (on a public forum) that I undertake on the motorway at every (safe) opportunity just to prove a point. How does this "crime detected/crime resolved" thing actually work? You can't 'resolve' something by fining someone, that's punishing. Resolving implies a proactive response, not a reactive one. This really winds me up. As most others have said the coppers should not have the ability to decide that you were driving 'carelessly' and fine you for it. The other problem is actually policing this new law. How do they decided who or which careless drivers to fine? They can't possibly fine everyone who undertakes or changes lane without indicating or whatever, so if they pick me is it because I'm in a sports car and they are descriminating against me? At least with speeding they can get eveyone (or a high percentage) and it's not a matter of the piggy policeman making up his own mind "Hmmm, what mood am I in today? It 33mph speeding or not today? Is tha a young driver undertaking, or s responsible adult undertaking? Hmmm. No, I'll just go to McDonalds and have a think about it there." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Don’t let this thread become a place to voice your poor experiences with the police who only enforce the law not write them If only they did enforce the law, equally and fairly. +1 I have mates who are police and they would never be able to get cuffs on me if I resisted due to them being far too small and weak. Police don't had the correct education to analyse the law and that's why so many cases get dropped even before they get to court. My dog would help if you want to resit, oh and my law degree would help as well. Thats the way the polce should train their recruits. Law degrees all round, I'd make sure they had a 1st class honours aswell. That way we wouldn't have as many teenagers straight out of school becoming police officers. I would also make sure all officers sat fitness and theory tests yearly. So many fat lazy coppers now it's unreal. So many youths as police who have had zero life experience also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Undertaking is not dangerous on a motorway. Try and tell me otherwise - if I can undertake a car then that car is in the wrong lane, not I, and therefore they are at fault, not me. I openly admit (on a public forum) that I undertake on the motorway at every (safe) opportunity just to prove a point. sadly, undertaking is really dangerous. I agree they are in the wrong but if they pull back in on you, you are stuffed as it's your fault for being there. It is a very blind area to be in and people simply will not be expecting you to be there. Although how much safer is running the ignorant F***s down, bumper to bumper when they don't move... you cant win. It's like ricey said in his euro trip thread, british driving is appauling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 It's just an extension of s.59, which in itself is the biggest crock of sh*t to come to motoring law in the last 50 years. Police should not be judge, jury and executioner, that's what we have the courts for! Not if you live on somewhere where you have boy racers outside your door till the early hour playing loud music, handbrake turns and causing a nuisance. Sec 59 is designed to combat ASB whilst using motor vehicles. Anyway the new legislation would never remove the option of the individual to exercise their right to a day in court. As for issuing on the spot fine this has been going on for years, seat belt, mobile phone, parking, etc which now include theft, damage and many more minor offences which would otherwise take up valuable court time. Don’t let this thread become a place to voice your poor experiences with the police who only enforce the law not write them Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish. S.59 should be used for the purposes you mention, but it routinely isn't (check SP&L over on PH for a billionty and one examples) and it's also a law which you can't challenge in court, only direct to the police themselves which then gets buried. If the boy racers are doing handbrake turns in the road and causing a nuisance then they should get charged for Dangerous Driving which carries proper penalties. The whole s.59 law was brought in by a government that delighted in knee-jerk reactions to a perceived problem by Joe Public, and without much thought to the consequences. It's a horrible piece of legislation. The problem people have with this law is that it's unnecessary: We've already got a shedload of laws that cover the crimes mentioned by this which go through due process, and all this is doing is giving the police greater powers than they should have. Undertaking is the one I have serious issues with, as the police should be pulling over the person hogging the middle lane (as it invariably is) and giving them the bollocking, not the undertaker assuming it's done in a safe and controlled manner. Never been to the states then? Two weeks in Florida, one stretch of the I4, one accident a day. They weave in and out like a carpet makers apprentice, not dangerous Been there numerous times thanks, my folks own a place in Davenport which I get regular use of. They do weave in and out a lot, and considering how much they do it it's surprising the very few accidents it causes. Which junctions on the I4 are you referring to? It gets a bit chaotic as you enter the city on rush hour (especially the junctions around the basketball stadium when there's a game on) but no worse than you see on the M25 every day. I refuse to judge all Americans as idiots that can't drive, we've got enough of them over here without tarring an entire nation with that brush. Make people think about their actions/inactions, and target the mindless many rather than the deliberate few. Give 1pt on a licence and a £30 every time someone fails to indicate on a roundabout, on a motorway, turning into a side road; Give that same punishment to those who won't move over after overtaking; Make people realise that not everyone around them is psychic and they need to use their mirrors and indicators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Don’t let this thread become a place to voice your poor experiences with the police who only enforce the law not write them If only they did enforce the law, equally and fairly. +1 I have mates who are police and they would never be able to get cuffs on me if I resisted due to them being far too small and weak. Police don't had the correct education to analyse the law and that's why so many cases get dropped even before they get to court. I know its a typo but that made me laugh sorry bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maccaman Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Another road tax? Why not try tackling real problems in the country? I have a list if they're short of thing to deal with. It starts with teenage mums, lazy benefit reliant retards and goes all they through to litter and offensive chav behaviour/clothing/lingo. Undertaking is not dangerous on a motorway. Try and tell me otherwise - if I can undertake a car then that car is in the wrong lane, not I, and therefore they are at fault, not me. I openly admit (on a public forum) that I undertake on the motorway at every (safe) opportunity just to prove a point. How does this "crime detected/crime resolved" thing actually work? You can't 'resolve' something by fining someone, that's punishing. Resolving implies a proactive response, not a reactive one. This really winds me up. As most others have said the coppers should not have the ability to decide that you were driving 'carelessly' and fine you for it. The other problem is actually policing this new law. How do they decided who or which careless drivers to fine? They can't possibly fine everyone who undertakes or changes lane without indicating or whatever, so if they pick me is it because I'm in a sports car and they are descriminating against me? At least with speeding they can get eveyone (or a high percentage) and it's not a matter of the piggy policeman making up his own mind "Hmmm, what mood am I in today? It 33mph speeding or not today? Is tha a young driver undertaking, or s responsible adult undertaking? Hmmm. No, I'll just go to McDonalds and have a think about it there." Surely the police decide you were driving "carelessly" now. The only difference would be not going to court to argue the case, which in most cases you would lose anyway. What will probably happen is a lot of the "crimes" will be dealt with in the same way as they are now, stern warning/slap on the wrist. We all tend to have a knee jerk reaction whenever something like this comes up. Obviously you cannot legislate for the cops that have marshmellows for brains, they are going to be t*ts anyway. As for the chavs driving recklessly, chances are they will be penniless anyway, so no difference there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMe Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Surely the police decide you were driving "carelessly" now. The only difference would be not going to court to argue the case, which in most cases you would lose anyway. What will probably happen is a lot of the "crimes" will be dealt with in the same way as they are now, stern warning/slap on the wrist. We all tend to have a knee jerk reaction whenever something like this comes up. Obviously you cannot legislate for the cops that have marshmellows for brains, they are going to be t*ts anyway. As for the chavs driving recklessly, chances are they will be penniless anyway, so no difference there. Well no, they don't. You go to court and it's decided there. Fair enough that the legal system usually goes down the route of "But why would that lovely mister pig man lie about you driving recklessly?" and that's a hard one to argue. I mean, why do they employ power-hungry control freaks and rate them and how efficient they are based on how many people they arrest or punish? Why? I don't know the answer to that, so I guess I must be guilty. The 'only difference' is a huge difference in my book and would likely end in police acting more often because it's a quick win for them. I'm sorry, but I've heard very few good (traffic) cop stories and know a few. If you try and disagree they just get it up themselves and it just makes matters worse. You can't have your own opinion you're just a number and you'd better shut up and accept it or they'll come down on you hard. You know it, I know it, they know it. Think for yourself. Question authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Lmao iPhone typo! Trust you dawg Don’t let this thread become a place to voice your poor experiences with the police who only enforce the law not write them If only they did enforce the law, equally and fairly. +1 I have mates who are police and they would never be able to get cuffs on me if I resisted due to them being far too small and weak. Police don't had the correct education to analyse the law and that's why so many cases get dropped even before they get to court. I know its a typo but that made me laugh sorry bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMe Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Undertaking is not dangerous on a motorway. Try and tell me otherwise - if I can undertake a car then that car is in the wrong lane, not I, and therefore they are at fault, not me. I openly admit (on a public forum) that I undertake on the motorway at every (safe) opportunity just to prove a point. sadly, undertaking is really dangerous. I agree they are in the wrong but if they pull back in on you, you are stuffed as it's your fault for being there. It is a very blind area to be in and people simply will not be expecting you to be there. Although how much safer is running the ignorant F***s down, bumper to bumper when they don't move... you cant win. It's like ricey said in his euro trip thread, british driving is appauling. I understand what you're saying, but the fact of the matter is undertaking isn't dangerous. Someone changing lanes without checking for other vehicles is what makes it dangerous. Undertaking (on a motorway) is only as dangerous as overtaking. I've had my fair share of people nearly swerving into me when I'm overtaking/passing because they've not bothered to check their mirrors. Where's the difference? As far as I'm aware, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I am in a lane doing a steady speed on a motorway and happen to pass a car who is in the wrong lane, this is neither dangerous nor illegal. It's not 'undertaking' it's driving normally and them being in the wrong lane. I'm not responsible for them being in that lane or what speed they are doing. What if someone in the inside lanes brakes sudednly or slows down? Do I have to slam the anchors on so I don't 'underatake' them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 It's only undertaking illegally if you pull back out in front of them. If the slow lane is moving faster then it's not illegal. Undertaking is not dangerous on a motorway. Try and tell me otherwise - if I can undertake a car then that car is in the wrong lane, not I, and therefore they are at fault, not me. I openly admit (on a public forum) that I undertake on the motorway at every (safe) opportunity just to prove a point. sadly, undertaking is really dangerous. I agree they are in the wrong but if they pull back in on you, you are stuffed as it's your fault for being there. It is a very blind area to be in and people simply will not be expecting you to be there. Although how much safer is running the ignorant F***s down, bumper to bumper when they don't move... you cant win. It's like ricey said in his euro trip thread, british driving is appauling. I understand what you're saying, but the fact of the matter is undertaking isn't dangerous. Someone changing lanes without checking for other vehicles is what makes it dangerous. Undertaking (on a motorway) is only as dangerous as overtaking. I've had my fair share of people nearly swerving into me when I'm overtaking/passing because they've not bothered to check their mirrors. Where's the difference? As far as I'm aware, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I am in a lane doing a steady speed on a motorway and happen to pass a car who is in the wrong lane, this is neither dangerous nor illegal. It's not 'undertaking' it's driving normally and them being in the wrong lane. I'm not responsible for them being in that lane or what speed they are doing. What if someone in the inside lanes brakes sudednly or slows down? Do I have to slam the anchors on so I don't 'underatake' them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 i don't know the law well enough to say if it is or isnt illegal, but it is poor driving, the correct procedure is to pull out into the right hand lane waiting for the person to pull back in and then pass them. In germany it is accepted that indicating into the central reservation means you wish to pass somone and they should consider this in their manouvering (ie. **** off out the way). Highway Code rule 268 advises against undertaking on a motorway: "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake". On other roads you can "only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right" (rule 163). On all roads, undertaking is permitted if the vehicles in the lane to the right are queueing and slow moving. Undertaking in an aggressive or reckless manner could be considered Careless Driving or more seriously Dangerous Driving, both of which are legally enforceable offences. "Queueing and slow moving" does not cover a lane hogger. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_070314 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Worst case of outside lane hogging I saw was when the M25 splits just after the bridge, it goes to two lanes then suddenly you find yourself in the outside lane of four when it rejoins. I remember a bunch of us got stuck behind a red cortina doing 30mph, I repeat THIRTY miles per hour in the outside lane of four on the M25. Within seconds there was a tail back, I was the first in the queue so I indicated, then flashed lights, tooted horn and nothing. So I had to undertake, no option. Tens of cars were undertaking every second so it was a nightmare and yes it was dangerous no doubt about it. As I passed on the inside I took a look and the person was about 70 years old with glasses as thick as the windshield and just looking bolt ahead. So, arrest hundreds for undertaking or the person driving the red cortina...?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMe Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 No! I shall never be forced to respect your authority! I will only question it. Benjamin Franklin said "It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." And he's from the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMe Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 i don't know the law well enough to say if it is or isnt illegal, but it is poor driving, the correct procedure is to pull out into the right hand lane waiting for the person to pull back in and then pass them. In germany it is accepted that indicating into the central reservation means you wish to pass somone and they should consider this in their manouvering (ie. **** off out the way). Highway Code rule 268 advises against undertaking on a motorway: "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake". On other roads you can "only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right" (rule 163). On all roads, undertaking is permitted if the vehicles in the lane to the right are queueing and slow moving. Undertaking in an aggressive or reckless manner could be considered Careless Driving or more seriously Dangerous Driving, both of which are legally enforceable offences. "Queueing and slow moving" does not cover a lane hogger. http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr ... /DG_070314 F**k it, I'm breaking the law. They gotta catch me first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 And he's from the past. those pesky past people always seem to be much more cleverer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattMe Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 And he's from the past. those pesky past people always seem to be much more cleverer And they dress better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 And he's from the past. those pesky past people always seem to be much more cleverer And they dress better. you thinking corsets here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt L Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I dont believe police should be able to do you for careless driving as it is down to the cop there and then so just down to his personal preferences there will be no black and white with it, it will be all a grey mess. as for undertaking.... im all for it i dont see how it is any worse than over taking someone. I admit if there is a car in the middle lane and refusing to move over despite the inside lane being clear for the next 2miles i will undertake them (i see it as if i have the space to safetly undertake them and no have to pull out straight away cutting them up then they are in the wrong not me), they are cause more of a danger by forcing everyone into one lane than i am undertaking them and yes if they pulled in on me it would be classed as my fault but 1 - if they werent in the wrong lane to begin with i wouldnt of been there 2 - they should be using their mirrors/checking their blind spot before making any move so they should have spotted me. middle lane drivers and not using indicators are the only thing that gives me road rage. tbf on a whole the legal system/punishment system in this country is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 See it's that kind of thing that makes british people such bad drivers. "I know its wrong but the other guy is more wrong" or "I know better than the highway code" there is a major lack of driver training in britain especially motorways and it leads to the pathetic mess we have now. I was a passenger yesterday with a colleague and his driving was utter crap. His observations were late, his actions weren't thought out before hand, his braking was late and hard due to lack of observation or understanding of what was happening in the road regualrly coming to a stop for an empty roundabout, at one point he was in the wrong lane and then went all the way to the end and cut someone up rather than pulling in early because he simply didn't know what to do in the situation, he sat in the right hand lane in the middle of an empty dual carriage way most of the way, he rarely indicated, the list goes on and it is long! All this in a 5.0L V8. I had to close my eyes and go to sleep on the way back just to keep my sanity. People like this need more training not more punishment!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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