This debate could get interesting.................

[glrnet]

What are your thoughts:-

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13356057

[Ekona]

It's just an extension of s.59, which in itself is the biggest crock of sh*t to come to motoring law in the last 50 years. Police should not be judge, jury and executioner, that's what we have the courts for!

[Chesterfield]

Agreed, there will now be no standard or line drawn which dictates what constitutes an offence. It's down to each individual officers interpretation. Its just another way of making targeting the motorist more profitable, as they remove the court administration costs.

 

I guess at present some minor mistakes or infringements may just get you a warning, as the officers don't deem them bad enough to warrant their time at court. Now that they can chalk up a "crime detected/crime resolved" statistic at the side of the road, they will jump on everything to boost their stats.

 

Insurers will be rubbing their hands, everyone will have 3 points. We may as well start with 3 points and just have them deducted if we don't get in any bother.

[Bockaaarck]

It's just an extension of s.59, which in itself is the biggest crock of sh*t to come to motoring law in the last 50 years. Police should not be judge, jury and executioner, that's what we have the courts for!

 

I have to say I'm inclined to agree, it's very important to have a distinction between police and the courts as to their roles and responsibilities. Much as there is constitutional separation of power between the legislature and the judiciary in this country, in that the legislature makes the law and the courts administer the law.

[glrnet]

"Now that they can chalk up a "crime detected/crime resolved" statistic at the side of the road, they will jump on everything to boost their stats."

 

Exactly

[spursmaddave]

Doesn't seem like it will be a problem to most people unless you drive like a complete tit cutting people up and undertaking etc.... but what is going to be classed as anti social driving? If you overtake an old duffer going 20mph will that be 3 points?

 

I agree with the bit about new drivers and under 21's not being allowed to drive after a certain time and not being allowed to carry passengers, you hear about too many Corsa's or Clio's crashing late at night with 4/5 teenagers in them...

[James B]

"Ministers say motorists who tail-gate, undertake or cut others up often go unpunished and that introducing instant penalties would be more efficient."

 

I voted police but its a tough call. tryinig to think of it in specific situations.

 

I think tailgaters are aggressive driving idiots and should get punished on the spot, same for arseholes that weave manicly through traffic but.......... what about the very VERY common situation where evvery nab in the world is sitting in the outside lane and you have two clear lanes of traffic on the inside? I might undertake in that situation and end up getting punished.

 

Not sure about it really.

[Chesterfield]

So in effect unless they take public transport under 21s would be unable to accept jobs requiring them to work past a certain hour.

 

Any 21-25 year olds that car share to work/university would need to take more vehicles on the road.

 

Industries such as fast food, supermarkets, cinemas and many other industries which employ younger workers would also suffer due to minimum wage differences between 18 and 21.

 

Youth unemployment in these sectors would increase dramatically, and without the ability to gain work experience in these areas, prospects overall would drop for them.

 

I fear whoever is behind these ideas has yet again left their brain at the door on their way in to the meeting.

[Beavis]

Who judges the police then when half of them driving dont have a clue how to drive either? Bollocked a copper the other day in his panda car for cutting me up on the roundabout and then he failed to indicate as well. I pulled along side of him shouting to use his mirrors and indicators and waving my arms! Does my head in the fact that they think they are the best drivers on the road!

 

And after been told its speeding that causes most accidents they have now changed their mind and now its bad driving!

[Ekona]

Bad driving is the cause of most accidents though, however it's not the people that are weaving in out and out traffic that are the biggest problem IMHO, it's (as Beavis says) the numpties who don't use their mirrors or indicate that are the real issue. If people were in the correct lanes then you simply wouldn't be able to undertake or weave, but that's far too difficult to police apparently.

 

And no, I don't weave myself no condone it, but done safely with full use your mirrors and awareness of the vehicles around you it's not inherently dangerous.

[Beavis]

Bad driving is the cause of most accidents though.

 

Totally agree Dan but it annoyed me so much when you got these police chiefs that always used to say it was speeding. Lack of lane discipline, lack of indicators and mirror's as been going on for years. Infact some driver's are so bad i wonder how they actually got a licence in the first place! Its surprising how dangerous someone can look driving at 30 mph when they dont have a clue about basic driving skills.

[coldel]

Am I missing something here? If someone is driving dangerously such as tailgating then the police should be filming it, pulling cars over then taking down the details in any case. Why is there some impression that moving the power to fine from the court to the police going to reduce driving like this?

 

I have only ever had two points on my license, when I was 18 stopped in a parking area to get some cash from a cash point, I left half inch of back wheel on a zig zag, I was back a minute later and there was plod and his mate. I got the usual lecture followed by...

 

Cop

"...so where you been all this time, you were here for gone five minutes"

Me

"I was at that cash point and back in about 1 minute" pointing across the road

Cop

"Well looking at the size of this fine you will be going back there again later" followed by hearty laughter between him and his mate

"So is this your car Sir"

Me

"No, it isn't"

Cop looks confused, him and his mate sense blood

Cop

"Well whose is it then"

Me

"My dads, i'm a named driver on the insurance"

Cop

"This aint no laughing matter kid"

Me

"Didn't stop you just now when talking about the fine"

 

Then they properly laid into me about being a careless driver, that it's people like me that cause accidents etc. When I went to pay the fine at the police station later I went with my dad, that same policeman was there and so was the station commander (or whatever they call themselves) so I proceeded to recall the whole incident and their sarcasm and stupidity out loud in a conversation with my dad which the commander fella overheard, he asked me what had happened and I said that the policeman that gave me the fine was basically treating it like a joke at my expense and that isn't his job and was unnecessary. The policeman in question denied the whole story...

 

...so would I want policeman becoming judge and jury on the road, not in a million years, not until they raise the IQ requirement above the plant life levels which litter the service at the moment.

[M13KYF]

sorry but there is no way the police be the judge. A tiny amount of them are as bent as I 9 bob note.

[Beavis]

A tiny amount of them are as bent as I 9 bob note.

 

 

+1 and my brother is one of them

[M13KYF]

A tiny amount of them are as bent as I 9 bob note.

 

 

+1 and my brother is one of them

 

 

what, bent

[Beavis]

A tiny amount of them are as bent as I 9 bob note.

 

 

+1 and my brother is one of them

 

 

what, bent

 

A cop and bent

[rothers2901]

It's just an extension of s.59, which in itself is the biggest crock of sh*t to come to motoring law in the last 50 years. Police should not be judge, jury and executioner, that's what we have the courts for!

 

Not if you live on somewhere where you have boy racers outside your door till the early hour playing loud music, handbrake turns and causing a nuisance. Sec 59 is designed to combat ASB whilst using motor vehicles.

 

Anyway the new legislation would never remove the option of the individual to exercise their right to a day in court. As for issuing on the spot fine this has been going on for years, seat belt, mobile phone, parking, etc which now include theft, damage and many more minor offences which would otherwise take up valuable court time.

 

Don’t let this thread become a place to voice your poor experiences with the police who only enforce the law not write them

[Chesterfield]

Not if you live on somewhere where you have boy racers outside your door till the early hour playing loud music, handbrake turns and causing a nuisance. Sec 59 is designed to combat ASB whilst using motor vehicles.

 

So why arent they doing anything about it? They have powers to stop the problem you are having, yet they don't. The new additions will therefor help how?

 

 

As another note - these additions may also interfere with events such as the Wales drive. 50 cars even driving fully legally but with loud exhausts etc could be construed as a nuicance to some, and what better way to up the stats than get 50 fines and tickets in a single swipe.

 

It will be interesting to see how this develops, but I think there could be serious concequences for organised drives for car clubs.

[coldel]

Don’t let this thread become a place to voice your poor experiences with the police who only enforce the law not write them

 

If only they did enforce the law, equally and fairly.

[rothers2901]

And no, I don't weave myself no condone it, but done safely with full use your mirrors and awareness of the vehicles around you it's not inherently dangerous.

 

Never been to the states then? Two weeks in Florida, one stretch of the I4, one accident a day. They weave in and out like a carpet makers apprentice, not dangerous

[coldel]

Anyway the new legislation would never remove the option of the individual to exercise their right to a day in court. As for issuing on the spot fine this has been going on for years, seat belt, mobile phone, parking, etc which now include theft, damage and many more minor offences which would otherwise take up valuable court time.

 

I think as well this is an important point...did someone drive without a seat belt, yes or no? Its a clear cut decision. Parking, were you over the line? Yes or No, clear cut.

 

Undertaking, some are dangerous and need fining, some are though not so citing the example of a slow mover on the outside lane with two empty lanes inside them.

 

Stick to the Yes No's for the police, things which are argumentative such as the undertaking example must go to a court, as invariabley most will in any case so we waste more time in the long run. Time spent with the police issuing fines and time wasted in an appeal court will always outweigh the current system in time and cost.

[Chesterfield]

Were talking about Americans and their SUV's that are well known for their incredible visibility.

 

I get damned annoyed with people not keeping left on motorways and the polices complete inability to enforce this. The country is spending billions on widening motorways, which is all a complete waste of money in my opinion, and the same eficciencies could be achived by just making sure people keep left.

[Neilp]

Don’t let this thread become a place to voice your poor experiences with the police who only enforce the law not write them

 

If only they did enforce the law, equally and fairly.

+1

 

They can't control kids up here but like to do the likes of a respectable citizen for minor things like standing outside a pub with a pint having a smoke.

The local police station was smashed up while the polce were inside. The cars got it aswell. Did they do the culprits.... No! They know exactly who they were but yet they were too scared to follow up.

The police force is so corrupt, I know a couple who can get you anything you want, pirate dvd's and the likes.

I have mates who are police and they would never be able to get cuffs on me if I resisted due to them being far too small and weak. Their job is to merely watch for people who they have suspect to have broken the law and the move them to the courts where lawyers (analysts of the law) decide if they actually broke the law or not. Police don't had the correct education to analyse the law and that's why so many cases get dropped even before they get to court.

[DP7657]

Almost spat my breakfast all over the table this morning when I saw this on the News.

[rothers2901]

Not if you live on somewhere where you have boy racers outside your door till the early hour playing loud music, handbrake turns and causing a nuisance. Sec 59 is designed to combat ASB whilst using motor vehicles.

 

So why arent they doing anything about it? They have powers to stop the problem you are having, yet they don't. The new additions will therefor help how?

 

 

As another note - these additions may also interfere with events such as the Wales drive. 50 cars even driving fully legally but with loud exhausts etc could be construed as a nuicance to some, and what better way to up the stats than get 50 fines and tickets in a single swipe.

 

It will be interesting to see how this develops, but I think there could be serious concequences for organised drives for car clubs.

 

I can see that this thread could develop into a real tug of war, so off to work to help solve the problem. Not quite sure of the legal limit for the noise of which exits the rear silencer but it's about 90 decibels which is realy loud. Stood next to a Harley with staight through pipes which was street legal I would think that no one on the Wales trip would exceed this.