Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hi All Just need some help on FI, I've decided to DIY the Vortech but at the moment not totally sure what else I'll need either to install or once it's running, BTW I know absolutely nothing about this subject. 1 - Connecting the brains, should I use a separate harness I think someone, Steve perhaps used an autosport thing ? 2 - Gauges are they required and what do they do? not many questions but there's got to be more answers and things that I've missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I'm sooo respecting you mate! not knowing anything about it but still wanting to diy! awesome! I can't be of much help but IIRC Steve-B got an upgraded oil pan (to avoid oil starvation) upgraded lightweight pulley and possibly bigger injectors too? Surely our resident experts will be along shortly, also did you have a look @ 350z-tech section regarding FI? Not just the forum, also the related guides etc there's LOTS of info there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 A harness is supplied I believe - see the GUIDES section. This is not a problem. Gauges are almost essential. I have a Zeitronix unit (see GUIDES section!) but you can buy individual gauges. The Zeitronix comes with boost (MAP), EGT, AFR and lamdba and can be configured to read RPM - can't remember ECU pin# for RPM offhand. It also hooks up to a laptop (via a 9pin serial connector) for datalogging and review. I like mine a lot and the quality of the sensors is very good apparently. One problem with individual gauges is that I haven't managed to find a gauge pod suitable for the drivers side (i.e. for RHD). You might be able to source from Australia but no-one in the States knows or can supply - at least when I was looking; may have changed now. I know Steve-B had DEFI's but he had to fabricate a special 'pod' for his cubby to mount them. Any more info. you need let me know. I can probably access Steve-Bs install thread since I have key parts saved (its not that explicit in the way that his cats install was though). PM me with your e-mail if you want this. Edit pin# - see my post http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread. ... ost1845034 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 As Val says, a larger oil pan is a nice-to-have but not essential. Steve and I had/have ARC Oil pan but Stephen G is using stock AFAIK. make sure the exhaust you have is nice and free-flowing too though not as important as per TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I bought an autosport wiring harness that gives you a full ECU 'breakout' without touching the existing ECU wires and terminals. I can give you a link if you want. I also bought colder plugs, an oil pan spacer (does the job, quarter of the price of the bigger oil pans), and the essentials are hi-flo cats and a decent exhaust. Any other q's, just ask... prescience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Stephen, In hindsight I would've gone for a harness but its not an issue really. Another nice-to-have. On the spacer front, did you not tap into the upper oil pan well above the oil level as Vortech recommend? This was discussed on my350z and the concerted wisdom is that not doing so might invalidate your warranty. Not wanting to worry you or owt! And +1 on the colder plugs. Denso's (IKH20) are available from oilman and NGK (LFR6AIX-11) from spark-plugs.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Cheers guys much appreciated so Larger oil pan One step colder plugs Gauges - Zeitronix is that the one with the LCD display? Auto sport harness and possibly clutch flywheel 275 tyres?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 PM me with your e-mail if you want this. PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 I can give you a link if you want. Yes please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Spill, I'll be interested in following this. I have never undertaken anything as major as this, and would be a complete novice if I tried now. I will be interested in seeing just how well you get on, as it is certainly something that may be on the cards for mine once the warranty expires. I take my hat off to you - that is dedication and determination! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Cheers guys much appreciated so Larger oil pan RECOMMENDED One step colder plugs ESSENTIAL Gauges - Zeitronix is that the one with the LCD display? Yes, I have it mounted in the sunglasses holder ESSENTIAL TO HAVE SOME GAUGES Auto sport harness RECOMMENDED and possibly clutch WAIT UNTIL STOCK FAILS flywheel WAIT UNTIL STOCK FAILS 275 tyres?????? ALMOST ESSENTIAL FOR TRACTION; ESSENTIAL FOR TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 The Zeitronix comes with boost (MAP), EGT, AFR and lamdba and can be configured to read RPM - can't remember ECU pin# for RPM offhand. It also hooks up to a laptop (via a 9pin serial connector) for datalogging and review. I like mine a lot and the quality of the sensors is very good apparently. so with gauges we can see whats happening to the car in realtime, I know this is a dumb question but why do we need to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Exhaust I've got a true dual invida G200 which I hope will be up to it, and a couple of kinetix cats on top of the wardrobe (in the garage) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Primarily you need to know that your Air/Fuel ratio is in the safe region (<12) when you're in mid to high boost. The Vortech (as controlled by the SplitSec piggy-back) runs extremely rich in this region (low 10s) i.e. extremely safe You don't want to be detonating and you need to know the engine is getting enough fuel to run correctly. Also, knowledge of EGTs and variations from the norm can indicate a problem Its peace of mind stuff really and you don't need to be logging all the time by any means. Plus the headunit looks bling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Spill, I'll be interested in following this. I've got my replacement car now so installation will start after a trackday on 24th February and a dyno run on 25th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Exhaust I've got a true dual invida G200 which I hope will be up to it, and a couple of kinetix cats on top of the wardrobe (in the garage) Do you keep your clothes in the garage and your car in the house Invidia - don't know much about this - but true dual is good is this the VERY LOUD invidia (which I think is G200?) Edit -> G200 from your post doh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 The Vortech (as controlled by the SplitSec piggy-back) runs extremely rich in this region (low 10s) i.e. extremely safe Talking with a tuner in Brum yesterday, he said that American maps and in particular vortech are prone to fuel problems as the standard map is set for 100ron petrol, I couldn't comment on what he said as TBH I don't yet understand (I will though) so if anyone can confirm or not, I'd be interested to find out if this guy knows what he's talking about because I may try him to tune it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spill Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Exhaust I've got a true dual invida G200 which I hope will be up to it, and a couple of kinetix cats on top of the wardrobe (in the garage) Do you keep your clothes in the garage and your car in the house Invidia - don't know much about this - but true dual is good is this the VERY LOUD invidia (which I think is G200?) Edit -> G200 from your post doh LOL it was just somewhere to dump the thing, have tried going to the tip in a zed nah it's the quite one the N1's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Completely wrong I would say. The americans usually use 93 MON which is about equivalent to 98 RON http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117 In any event, its runs mega-rich in the mid-high boost as I say and the timing is retarded (about an extra 10 degs at redline) so I can see no problems and have never heard of this. When you come to tune it, you will adjust fuel and timing to deliver a safe AFR which will be leaner than the ultra-rich default but in the <12 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Timing maps showing 6 degs retard at redline. This data is from the base Vortech files in the SplitSec 3D version and sample at 6.5psi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 (from my 350z blog that was last updated 4 months ago ) the harness being inspected by my cat The company : http://www.autosportwiring.com/ The person to speak to : Richard - richard@autosportwiring.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagar Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 who is reputable and trusted for an SC install? Are that nissan dealer in mersyside any good? What SC is recommended for the Z? I keep seeing comments on how the torque delivier is changed drasitcally with the SC but does it mean its worse low down or is it just flat but much more of it? How does it translate in road driving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 who is reputable and trusted for an SC install? Abbey did mine and StephenG's Vortech; they are actually HKS dealers. Think Mr F does Stillen Are that nissan dealer in mersyside any good? Middlehursts you mean. Probably OK but I don't know. They are HKS dealers (used to be Stillen and did Neil B's car on the old forum) What SC is recommended for the Z? Vortech or HKS are mainly used in UK. Stillen is OK but you must have an intercooler (otherwise power drops off dramatically when hot). Stillen and HKS are hard to tune (the latter insofar as only a Pro dealer can) - Vortech should be easy in theory but Abbey have tried with out much success; Stephen G can advise I keep seeing comments on how the torque delivier is changed drasitcally with the SC but does it mean its worse low down or is it just flat but much more of it? That's crap TBH. You don't lose any torque at low revs like some poeple try to maintain but clearly you get more power and torque with revs with any centrifugal SC (Vortech HKS) - that's the nature of it People also say stuff like 'You have to rev the nuts off the car with SC vs TT', implying that a. They don't use high revs with a TT - yeah right b. You are somehow putting more strain on the engine - not true, both systems are putting a lot of extra strain on a stock motor - just look at the Hp delivered. How does it translate in road driving? Like stock only more so, power delivery is smoothe rather than kick-in-the-back type. The great thing about the stock Z is that it doesn't feel that fast but is, its the same smoothness with SC. If you want a muel-kick go TT, but drive both first yourself at a meet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 HKSPWDZ has an HKS SC, would like to know what he thinks about the 2 choices and the torque and hp delivery, hopefully he'll chip in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSPWRDZ Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 This has been a topic of much heated debate in the US. First of all I want to say that the Vortech is a very nice supercharger kit and this post is meant in no way to say its a bad FI solution for your Z. That being said before I went FI on my Z I did alot of research and came to the conclusion that if you were not willing to spend the extra money to build the engine, due to the weak point of the connecting rod bolts, turbo was not a reliable choice for the Z. Then I started researching superchargers, the ATI Procharger had timing issues and had popped alot of engines, the Vortech was nice but I was not pleased with where the powerband was in the RPM band. The stillen is a very nice supercharger and has linear power but the hood was not something I was willing to put on my car. IMHO its ugly. So I had just about given up when I came across the HKS Supercharger, the HP peaks much sooner in the RPM band and the TQ was very nice. Rotrex makes the supercharger unit which is used on BMW. So that was the one I went with, and could not be more pleased. I have had it on for almost 2 years, no lights, no problems, it has been a great supercharger. I have added a couple of modifications to mine for a little more power, I have the Nismo Cams, AAM Plenum Spacer, RC 440cc injectors, to do away with the extra injectors that comes with the HKS Kit, doing this allows for more precise fuel control. The car is tuned with HKS F-Con along with the HKS Navigator, to help her breathe better I put the Nismo Exhaust on. The great thing about the HKS is that it is a self contained system, it has its own oiling system with a oil cooler, it does not run off of engine oil, no tapping the oil pan. As a result the Supercharger stays very cool , and no power loss due to heat soak. On to the power I have 335 RWHP 325TQ here are some calculations that were done by a 350Z tech member using dyno sheets from a Vortech and a HKS supercharger In a comparison between a 401whp Vortech and a 329whp HKS SC. Calculations are under the curve, or "mean" hp/torque. Basically the avg. hp and torque each unit makes under Peak power. The Vortech avg. HP = 268 The HKS avg. HP = 264 The Vortech avg. Torque = 286 The HKS avg. Torque = 297 What does this mean? The HKS SC ... Makes more torque under the curve and is down on PEAK power by 72whp... Short answer. HKS makes more useable power. And does so more efficiently. The power curve is better That being said, in real life, I have raced APS single turbo car, and a Vortech supercharged car. The Vortech I can get such a big jump on from the take off it gets ugly. The APS was about 3 car lenths up to about 80 the slowly up to 140 he caught up I had him by a fender at 140. This is not to say that there are not Vortech cars and APS Single cars that would beat me. But the initial power on the HKS is incredible and I could not be more pleased. Again this was in no way to say HKS is better than any other FI kit, its just to be informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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