Nuno Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hi everyone I'm looking to upgrade the ICE in my car. I own a roadster so am already limited to options. I currently have the factory BOSE equipment, although I have upgraded the head unit to a Pioneer AVH-4200DVD. I wanted to upgrade the sub, amp and front & rear speakers in the factory locations as I didnt see the point in putting subs in the boot of a roadster. I think the coils have gone on my rear speakers as they vibrate at high volume, but so do the front tweeters occasionally. I don't know much about ICE but went to two different places for advice & quotes. I dont really want to spend over a grand, but if I am going to spend money on upgrading then I want a significant improvement over the standard BOSE equipment. The 1st place I went to was Car Audio Centre, who advised: Inphase 8" sub, approx £60 Namakichi 6" rear speakers, approx £80 Kenwood 4ch amp, approx £250 This was a brief chat and didnt really go into specific model numbers but was quoted around £700 for the above equipment, labour and parts such as leads and dynamat. I was advised to use the amp to power the sub and front speakers, and run the rear speakers off the headunit. He said this would sound ok but if if it wasnt then I have the option to change the fronts at a later date. He did a install on another 350z, only changing the sub and amp but kept the speakers. I personally thought this was expensive, considering I've never heard of the brands he was offering to install other then the kenwood amp. The 2nd place I went to was Car Electronics Ltd. They advised to change everything all the speakers but use a 6ch amp. I also was considering a rear view camera at this stage that I could also connect to my head unit. This was the equipment (prices excl vat): JL audio 8w3v3-4 sub £127.66 (after I was told its possible to fit a JL 10w0 sub aswell that could be done at the same cost) JL audio C2 600x rear speakers £99.96 JL audio C2 650C front components £166.66 JL audio XD 600/6 amp £416.63 Rear Camera (CKO VA9 or cw646 http://www.c-ko.co.uk/rvcameras.html) £85.11 Wiring £85.11 Dynamat £51.98 Labour £200 Total = £1479.73 inc vat Their prices for the equipment is higher then what i could find online, but they wouldnt price match websites. I was advised that I could save £100-150 by using the 4ch amp instead to power the speakers and use a monoblock for the sub, but could affect sound quality. What are your views on the 2 options? I thought £1500 was alot for this kind of ICE upgrade but what do you guys think og the the JL audio equipment? Thanks in advance for any help and advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If you go to an I.C.E. centre and ask them what to get they are going to suggest what they have in stock and make a good profit on, also they will suggest something possibly more than you actually need. All business really, same as going to PC world and saying your Dad wants a PC to browse the net and coming out with a Gaming PC that cost £1,000 There are some REALLY knowledgable guys on here, I would suggest DBlock he seems to really know what he is talking about. Hopefully he will be along soon He will probably advise you get some 2nd hand equipment as a lot of I.C.E. enthusiasts have to have the latest and best gear (I got almost all mine 2nd hand and saved a fortune) and then get it professionally installed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 give ikarus a bell aswell i believe he has an impressive setup if hes still around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks guys. I know going into the store the advice maybe biased on their stock and the need to sell the most expensive equipment. I thought I'd ask here before spending my money, and find out whether it'll be worth what I'll possibly be paying for. I tried to find a few prices for the JL gear, the Car Electronics instore price inc vat is £200 higher then their website price at http://www.celstores.com Website & instore price: JL Audio XD600/6 - £399.62 & £499.96 JL Audio C2 600X - £97.02 & £119.95 JL Audio C2 6650C - £161.71 & £199.99 JL Audio 8W3v3-4 - £108.74 & £153.19 Total - £767.09 & £973.09 I'm being charged £102.12 inc vat for wiring, what exactly do I need and is that a reasonable price, as well as the price for the dynamat soundproofing and labour listed above? I'm from nottingham so if anyone can recommend a good ICE centre/fitter thats not too far that would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Doesn't sound too bad a deal to be honest. I have a JL amp and they are pretty well regarded. I bought 4 Hertz speakers of a member on here and paid £500 for them to be installed and wired along with a JL amp and some sound proofing I still have the stock bose sub at the moment which has its own amp. It is not the best but I can change it if / when I decide to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If you go to an I.C.E. centre and ask them what to get they are going to suggest what they have in stock and make a good profit on, also they will suggest something possibly more than you actually need. All business really, same as going to PC world and saying your Dad wants a PC to browse the net and coming out with a Gaming PC that cost £1,000 There are some REALLY knowledgable guys on here, I would suggest DBlock he seems to really know what he is talking about. Hopefully he will be along soon He will probably advise you get some 2nd hand equipment as a lot of I.C.E. enthusiasts have to have the latest and best gear (I got almost all mine 2nd hand and saved a fortune) and then get it professionally installed Thanks Dave IMO I wouldnt get rear speakers but this is up to you. IMO I would ditch the 6 channel amp for a 2 and a mono amp. If you want to keep the rears get a 4 channel amp and a mono for the sub. This would make it better IMO and have a better and more powerful amp for the sub and have more control and flexibilty for the comps. If you want some great wiring at decent prices check knukonceptz.co.uk JL stuff is good but IMO its the sound you are after, with all the better brands they sound different e.g. infinity perfects are super clear and bright, rainbows with silk domed tweeters are smooth and so on. Also dont order from CAC there has been alot of horror stories and so on. Best bet IMO would be to check out car audio direct. If your placing a decent order you can email them and they might give you 5% off. Also have a much better rep. As for the sound proofing you can using dynamat but you can get some foilbacked stuff from loudboy on talkaudio or get second skin or damplifier IMO they are better. Make sure you get foiled backed if its going in your doors. Talk audio is a great place to buy 2ndhand audio but if you want to buy new then CAD seems a better option. Also If I was you I would get MDF rings made for the front speakers. If you are going to sound deaden the door it would be pointless to not have a MDF baffle which mounts the speaker on a thick piece of wood rather than on metal where it will vibrate. If I was you I would get something like some dececnt speakers for the front (comps, woofer and tweeter) for about £150-£200. Make sure they are 6.5". Baffles will be about £20 Wiring will be about £60-£100 If you are only having front speaker get a decent amp, orion, jl, rainbow and so on front only get a 2 channel with about 2x 150RMS so 300wrms for both channels. If you are going 4 channel get about 90wrms per channel. As for the sub JL's are always a good choice. there are others which are great too. The most important thing with a sub is box size. If you are getting a box it will most likely be sealed as ported needs alot more space. Find out how much cuft volume it needs in the box and pick or get a box built for that size. A proper built box with a crap sub and a rubbish amp will sound better than a good amp connected to a good sub with a poorly built/wrong sized box. An amp for the sub should be matched roughly for the sub e.g. my sub 10" is 1000wrms and my amp is 1200rms. This gives me some headroom when setting the gain and also gives the amp more damping on the sub IMO. but if your sub is say 200wrms then a mono or 1 channel amp that is 200wrms or even 180wrms will be fine aslong as you are careful with the gains. That should help you a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
un1eash Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Car Electronics should match their online price as they do for me all the time in the Leicester Store. Buying new is always going to cost alot and i would recommend sourcing some second hand gear if you want top end on a budget. My setup would of cost over £1600 new just for parts. For example I picked up my 2 JL slash amps which cost £400 each new for £300, they were in mint condition and from a Car Electronics ex employee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Source in sheffield are among the best installers in the country: http://www.sourcecars.com/index11.php iirc they did Muddy's install Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Source in sheffield are among the best installers in the country: http://www.sourcecars.com/index11.php iirc they did Muddy's install I have Muddy's speakers And most of his interior CF Some good advice above, all really depends on how deep your pockets are and how impatient... Deep pockets and can't wait then get to an I.C.E. Place and pay the price, otherwise research a bit and maybe change bits as you find good 2nd hand bits... The world is your lobster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Thanks for the replies guys, and thanks dblock for taking the time to write the very informative reply. I've never attempted to change any ICE before and was wondering how difficult it is to do, and I will search for some guides. If its not too difficult I'll have a go myself. Are the front and rear speakers just an easy replacement or is there any rewiring involved? If I chose one of the JL audio subs is it a direct replacement or will I have to modify the current sub box behind the drivers seat? What exactly will i need to do for the sound proofing with the dynamat, do i just cover/fill the inside? I wasnt planning on sound deadening the door. Is it something I need to do with the mdf rings/baffle, or if I just place them in the current location will they vibrate too much? Thanks guys, the info has been great so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 No problem mate thats what this forum is for Well you dont have to rewire them but IMO you would be better to do it as sending 10x more power down the same wire which probably isnt great anyway wont be a great idea. But saying that you dont have to do this straight away. You will be better on getting mdf rings as the speakers sit and a funny angle and bolt in 3 places rather than 2 or 4. There is no sub box behind the seat. If not even sealed. So you would need to get a small box made so maybe a 8"sub would be better. unless you got a special sub to run IB. Just to use dynamat its goor practise to degrease the area where you plan on sticking it then you peel of the paper and stick it on. You can heat it if you want it to be softer to get into more complex places. You dont need to do that with the mdf ring but its advisable as you dont want your door rattling and stealing you bass although again you can run a baffle and if you want it to be better sound deaden it later although its eaiser to do at the same time. Where are you based as you would be better going to a trusted installer or using someone from the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Nuno from what you have posted I think you have about the same knowledge as me regarding I.C.E. so I would strongly advise getting someone professional to do it for you. To change the HU is not a complicated job in the main but to change the speakers and install a sub with all the required rewiring is not a job to take on if you have not done it before. If you are installing real quality hardware then the price of installing will not be great in proportion and will mean an expert job. Whatever part of the UK you are in I am sure someone on here can recommend a good I.C.E. installer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Thanks again dblock and dave. You're right Dave to say I dont know alot about ICE. I was thinking of reading up as much guides and having a go myself, but now I'm thinking it wont be an easy task. I didnt realise I would have to make a new box for the sub, rather then it being a simple swap. The guy at CEL said it was a simple swap, so now I'm wondering whether he'll know what he's really doing. I didnt even attempt to install the HU and had that fitted for me. I'm frm Nottingham but don't mind travelling a little further if it'll be worth it, so any recommendations for a good fitter would be appreciated. I came across pics of this 350z with visible subs behind each seat and was wondering whether anyone has done something similar. I was thinking of having a sub behind each seat and making them visible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I think Ikarus has done something like that, he also runs jl stuff. Is that close to the west midlands as Im sure Husky could sort you out on the cheap but (not doubting Husky's skills) for a proper install a pro is the best person to go to but you will pay double even triple the quote you got for labour orginally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15UL T Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I think the price they have gave you on labour is very cheap so i can understand why they wont match the wesite prices as the profit they will make on parts will help raise up the low labour cost When my install was done on my zed, cost was well over £3000 (£1500 was labour/dynamat/wiring/battery) !!! the whole rear and door cards were dynamatted, upgraded battery and high gauge cabling to be fair. it is a very expensive hobby lol but i saw the work that the guy put in as i was on site quite alot and the interior of the car was stripped out and everything was done properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 I went back to CEL and they said they would match their website prices, but the labour is now £390+vat including mdf rings for the door speakers. He said I could either have mdf rings or plastic rings wrapped in dynamat. The guy said that it's a straight swap with either the 8 or 10" sub, and said they would dynamat the existing box and parts of the door. Is it really a straight swap or should I be worried that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about? I got a total of £1363.36 for the JL audio equipment above including fitting but without a rearview camera (if I want a camera it will be £40+vat just for fitting) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 I went back to CEL and they said they would match their website prices, but the labour is now £390+vat including mdf rings for the door speakers. He said I could either have mdf rings or plastic rings wrapped in dynamat. The guy said that it's a straight swap with either the 8 or 10" sub, and said they would dynamat the existing box and parts of the door. Is it really a straight swap or should I be worried that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about? I got a total of £1363.36 inc vat for the JL audio equipment above including fitting but without a rearview camera . If I want a camera it will be £40+vat just for fitting, I would probably be getting one from eBay as their cheapest one is around £100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisingPower Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I went back to CEL and they said they would match their website prices, but the labour is now £390+vat including mdf rings for the door speakers. He said I could either have mdf rings or plastic rings wrapped in dynamat. The guy said that it's a straight swap with either the 8 or 10" sub, and said they would dynamat the existing box and parts of the door. Is it really a straight swap or should I be worried that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about? I got a total of £1363.36 inc vat for the JL audio equipment above including fitting but without a rearview camera . If I want a camera it will be £40+vat just for fitting, I would probably be getting one from eBay as their cheapest one is around £100 I guess if they seal the whole inside of the glovebox with dynamat it could work, but you'd be best asking someone like h5/dbblock, but then I think there were issues with getting at the fuel pump which was why people had enclosures they could remove/add? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
un1eash Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 You could just place a 10" sub in the bose position but it wont be sealed and you wont be getting the best out of it and to be honest i think it'll sound pants. It would take quite abit of work and effort to make a decent 10" box for the bose sub location or you could contact Ikarus about his 8" box design. My issue with the bose sub was its location, having it hitting you in the back gets annoying. With just my headunit and processor installed the bose sub really came alive and sound very good but its location is just all wrong in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattG Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 My issue with the bose sub was its location, having it hitting you in the back gets annoying. With just my headunit and processor installed the bose sub really came alive and sound very good but its location is just all wrong in my opinion. I'd also be worried about lots of interior rattles developing with a high powered sub in that location. I went for one of those under-strut sub boxes off ebay and I couldn't be happier. Even with a single 10" sub (best size for a box like that IMO), I have access to more than enough bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgeevans Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Nakamichi make / made proberly the best sq head units in the world or at least they used too they are / were the bang & olufsen of the car world , but at 80 quid these are properly not up to the standard there stuff used to be i paid 800+ quid for my nakamichi cd headunit when it was new and it was basic looking as you like abeit it did have a 6 disc changer in a single din unit but looked like an old standard factory fitted headunit but you couldn't beat it for sound quality. Thing is now days alot of the named stuff isn't as good as it used to be as the names have all been sold off to other companies who make cheap speakers and put well known names to them which just arent as good as the old stuff. personally from that list i would go with JL not the best around but you wont be disapointed and they're aint much if any better for similar money nowdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 +1 the nak cd400 and cd500 where and still are amazing. Only the real hardcore go for them as there is no mp3 but as far as sound quality goes the naks are amazing. If you run a nak you probably hate mp3 anyway. There is now alot of fakes and nak got taken over a while Bach abd it lost all it's quality. Nakamichi make / made proberly the best sq head units in the world or at least they used too they are / were the bang & olufsen of the car world , but at 80 quid these are properly not up to the standard there stuff used to be i paid 800+ quid for my nakamichi cd headunit when it was new and it was basic looking as you like abeit it did have a 6 disc changer in a single din unit but looked like an old standard factory fitted headunit but you couldn't beat it for sound quality. Thing is now days alot of the named stuff isn't as good as it used to be as the names have all been sold off to other companies who make cheap speakers and put well known names to them which just arent as good as the old stuff. personally from that list i would go with JL not the best around but you wont be disapointed and they're aint much if any better for similar money nowdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks guys I guess I'll go for the JL stuff, seems fairly reasonable, and will try and find someone who can do a good job of installing it at a reasonable price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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