Urgent Tyre Advice Needed!

[Ekona]

Of course you can, it just depends on how out of shape it is and how quick you can react. It's not particularly hard to get the rear of a hot hatch hatch wagging, it's just easier to hold in an RWD car.

[andlid]

[Dblock]

Of course you can, it just depends on how out of shape it is and how quick you can react. It's not particularly hard to get the rear of a hot hatch hatch wagging, it's just easier to hold in an RWD car.

 

You can get the rear end out like on my 172 and near the limit you can steer using the throtle but if you was to spin it no way its could come back. go about 45degrees and its over. Well thats you mixed tyres are bad out of the window aswell then isnt it?

[Ekona]

What? How so?

 

If you spin an RWD car you can't recover either. A spin is what happens when you've lost all control and by that definition you can't recover as it's already gone pear-shaped.

[MattyR]

Also new tyres should always go on the back of fwd cars.

My shed, an Astra 1.7 diesel, has budget Avon tires on the front and a pair of very new looking Bridgestones on the rear, and I have to say it's fine in the dry, but in the wet it understeers like a b#^%*, and feels extremely dangerous, even at low speeds, and especially under braking which is when you need the grip the most.

I haven't got around to swapping them around yet as I've not had the car long, but I imagine that having the newer grippier tyres at the front will make it much safer.

You have to excuse my naivity as I'm no mechanic, but what, if any, are the advantages of putting new tyres on the rear? Surely the rear wheels on a FWD car serve no purpose other than to make up the numbers?!!

[docwra]

In an FWD car the front wheels are doing the driving, braking and steering. The rears are just going round a bit. Why the hell would you not want your best tyres on the fronts??

 

I was fairly vocal in the other matched tyres thread, so Ill just say one thing.

 

Why does everybody arguing against mixed tyres automatically assume that the driver goes at exactly the same speed, on exactly the same road surface, in exactly the same conditions every time?? Is there no chance that the driver might adjust to the different conditions, i.e go a little slower as they are aware there is not the grip there?

 

Ive said it before and Ill say it again - road conditions make 100 times more difference to the way your car drives than the tyres its wearing, but we dont all stay at home when it rains do we?? Everyone is talking about lift off oversteer and stuff here, but being totally honest, if mismatched tyres are dangerous to you then you definitely shouldnt be experimenting with LOS, as you obviously cant adjust your driving to the situation.

[MattyR]

In an FWD car the front wheels are doing the driving, braking and steering. The rears are just going round a bit. Why the hell would you not want your best tyres on the fronts??

Agreed!! That was my point entirely!! Also, I think it's safe to assume that everyone does adjust their driving to suit the conditions, surely that just goes without saying. I was just looking for an answer as to why some people recommend putting new tyres on the rear of a FWD car!

[andlid]

FWD should have better tyres rear because:

 

No power train rear so need all the traction with free wheel?

No weight rear as the engine is front so need all the traction rear?

It's what I said about the toy car test... Not really sure why but know I've heard about it before. Only scary thing about crappy fronts is when you give power delivery (fwd) and the just keep going to the outer side of the corner... at least with a RWD you can adjust the behaviour a bit more easily then a FWD.... I'll see what I can dig up!

[Ekona]

FWD should have better tyres rear because:

No weight rear as the engine is front so need all the traction rear?

That point applies equally to an FR car like the Zed, so if a car had the same size tyres all round by OEM design, would you always put the new tyres on the rear?

[docwra]

So braking, water displacement and the freewheeling properties arent important on the front either then?

 

As for the weight argument, if theres less at the back why would you need better tyres? Less weight needs less grip to keep it on the straight and narrow.

[Ekona]

Don't forget that a car is designed to perform at it's best when it has four tyres of a specific type on, and all four of equal tread depth.

 

 

Actually, I'm almost boring myself with all this sh*t now. So many people out there appear to think that the laws of physics don't apply to them, and I doubt that even the most rational response will change their minds. It's like arguing Darwin with a Jehovah's Witness: Even if you've got all the facts to back you up, the other person is still going to believe in magical fairies.

 

 

 

I'll just say that anyone who knowingly puts mismatched tyres on their car of any kind is a complete idiot and deserves to end up in a hedge backwards.

[docwra]

Hang on, I was talking about an FWD application and if you read the first posts its not asking for recommendations, a guy has a number of solutions and wants to know the best one for him.

I agreed that good matched tyres are the best option, but this claim that mismatched tyres will make you crash immediately is preposterous.

 

The biggest factor in every single crash every is the person behind the wheel. If you choose to drive exactly the same way on a wet road running 4 matched OMG Ditchfinders as you would on a dry road with a spanking set of RE050's then the crash you will have is not down to the mismatch.

 

IIRC you never actually answered the question "Are 4 worn Nankang NS-2's better than 2 new RE050's and 2 new RE040's" ......... anyone who has driven on them knows the answer, but I guess this destroys your oversimplistic argument. As with most things in life there isnt one single answer that covers everything.

 

I'll just say that anyone who knowingly puts mismatched tyres on their car of any kind is a complete idiot and deserves to end up in a hedge backwards.

 

So at least half of of the population are idiots then, and deserve to write their cars off. Great attitude.

[Dblock]

On all of the fwd cars forums I have owned they have all said put new tyres on rear. Now I tried this on my arosa. I had new tyres at the back and ones with about 2.5ish mm at the front. I took it for a drive and it felt ok. Then I thought the same as you guys saying wait it's a fwd car new tyres on the front. So I changed them round. Yes the handling and braking was better. But when I pushed it quite hard (I used to drive like a hero) the back end kept sliding out. I thought it was fun as it was quite controlable and fun but I pushed it to hard and spun out. I only say this as I talk from experience. Both tyres where gdyr eagle f1 fad-3's. It's IMO of course. I had unmathched tyres on my 106 and it was fine as both where in good shape.

[Ekona]

IIRC you never actually answered the question "Are 4 worn Nankang NS-2's better than 2 new RE050's and 2 new RE040's" ......... anyone who has driven on them knows the answer, but I guess this destroys your oversimplistic argument. As with most things in life there isnt one single answer that covers everything.

 

Better in terms of grip? No. Better balanced? Yes. Happy now?

 

I'll just say that anyone who knowingly puts mismatched tyres on their car of any kind is a complete idiot and deserves to end up in a hedge backwards.

 

So at least half of of the population are idiots then, and deserve to write their cars off. Great attitude.

Not sure if you deliberately ignored the word "knowingly" in my post, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I've given so much advice on this recently, and if people still want to believe in magic tyre fairies then that's their own stupidity: Let Darwin deal with them.

[docwra]

Better in terms of grip? No. Better balanced? Yes. Happy now?

 

Safer then? Grip is a pretty good thing for me.

 

Not sure if you deliberately ignored the word "knowingly" in my post, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

How can you fail to realise that your tyres arent matched - theyve got the names down the sides

 

Im honestly not looking to argue here, I do agree with you, but its the massive generalisation and the removal of the driver and his judgement from this equation that I think is a bit wide of the mark.

[andlid]

I'm out until i find that report...

[bronzee]

I did not know that it was illegal to mix tyres across an axle in NZ, but I am assuming they haven't taken this decision in order to protect the revenue of people like dunlop and michelin.

 

Poor Bundus is probably totally confused from all of this discussion now.

[350zStephen]

        Reminder of Correct Fitment of New Tyres to the Rear

Symptom:

 

 

Compromised vehicle handling under severe conditions due to incorrect placement of new tyres.

As a tyre ages its performance deteriorates, which means regardless of tread depth it will not perform as well as a new tyre. If new tyres are fitted to the front with part-worn tyres at the rear, under certain conditions the vehicle could have a tendency to OVERSTEER. In addition as a tyre ages it also becomes more susceptible to punctures, which could lead to a rapid deflation of the tyre, which in turn could induce severe oversteer.

On-going research has established that in wet weather driving conditions, partly worn tyres fitted to the rear of a vehicle do not have the capability to disperse water at the same rate as newly manufactured tyres, which again can cause a severe oversteer effect.

An oversteering vehicle is inherently unstable and can be difficult to control even at moderate speeds.

So when tyres are replaced, placing the new tyres to the rearoffers greater safety, apart from giving significant reduced probability of a puncture or sudden deflation it also increases the drivers likelihood to maintain control of the vehicle. All tyre manufacturers’ recommend always placing new tyres to the rear.

Remedy:

IN THE INTERESTS OF SAFETY, WHEN REPLACING TWO TYRES, ALWAYS, FIT THE NEW TYRES TO THE REAR OF THE VEHICLE.

NOTE: The only exception to this is when a Customer specifies a different fitment location. However, you must inform the Customer of the reasons for your recommended fitment.

This instruction to fit replacement tyres to the rear applies irrespective of the vehicle being front or rear wheel drive.

Note: Please remember that there are specific circumstances where the above instruction does not or may not apply:

·       Where front and rear tyre sizes are designed to be different

 

 

·       Where a vehicle is designed to have directional tyres at the front and asymmetric at the rear.

Remember to consult appropriate Technical Bulletins or contact the Tyre Manufacturer for specific information regarding vehicle tyre fitments where you require specialist information in order to make the safe and correct fitment decision.

DraftsSent

[andlid]

The end...

[Ekona]

Not really, I'm still waiting for the Peugeot man's contact details so I can speak to him regarding putting mixed tyres on a 206CC

[MattyR]

Wrong wrong wrong.......

 

I dont care what anyone says, Im swapping the tyres round on my FWD Astra so the good ones are at the FRONT!!! Oversteer can be corrected, and only happens if your going too fast for the conditions. Understeer is dangerous and uncontrollable, and happens even at low speeds in the wet if the front tyres aren't as grippy as the rears. Not to mention losing steering control if the car was to aquaplane, and impaired braking!

 

Simple!!!

[350zStephen]

No bother, a technical bulletin sent to over 600 fast fit garages is wrong.

 

Also, I can't be arsed debating tyre fitment on a Peugeot 206. I spend all day talking about tyres, and I certainly am not going to do in my free time.

 

Google Peugeot technical and give them a call yourself.

[andlid]

Not really, I'm still waiting for the Peugeot man's contact details so I can speak to him regarding putting mixed tyres on a 206CC

[docwra]

No bother, a technical bulletin sent to over 600 fast fit garages is wrong.

 

My local Kwik Fit wont touch any kind of aftermarket wheel at all. Does that mean we are all wrong with ours or just that they are covering their arses?

[Dblock]

Sorry mate your wrong. Understeer CAN be easily corrected in both fwd and rwd cars. Oversteer can be corrected in a rwd (drifting) but as a fwd car has no power at the back it's hard to recover from.

 

 

Tbh unless your astra is a fast one or you really push it you *might* not notice the difference buy when pushing it you will. If both wheels are the same size why not swap them over it will only take you 10mins and then you can see for yourself

Wrong wrong wrong.......

 

I dont care what anyone says, Im swapping the tyres round on my FWD Astra so the good ones are at the FRONT!!! Oversteer can be corrected, and only happens if your going too fast for the conditions. Understeer is dangerous and uncontrollable, and happens even at low speeds in the wet if the front tyres aren't as grippy as the rears. Not to mention losing steering control if the car was to aquaplane, and impaired braking!

 

Simple!!!