andlid Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 Hi Guys - it gets worse. Spoke to garage a couple of times today who removed the pan to find pieces of metal & friction floating around in the replacement box. It seems like I am totally screwed now as I am £700+ down and I have a new box which is no better than the one I started with. Garage has offered me the original troubleshooting route which will cost between £1000-£1600 plus VAT and they will no doubt still want to get paid for fitting the dodgy replacement. I'm sure I can get my money back for the duff box but I feel like: A) The supplier has caused the consequential loss of the fitting cost (Until yesterday he was still saying it was fully working..) Should the garage has removed the pan to check before they did the swap. Seems like my decisions and everything else are all going totally the wrong way at the minute. I am left with the choice of giving the go ahead for a job which will likely cost over two grand or buying another box for £500-600+ & having that fitted (£400) - If I go this route is it out-of-order of me to expect a deal on the 2nd fitting? No way I want to pay full price twice.... Any advice greatly appreciated. After all this I can't really imagine being pleased to get the car back - I suppose I could always sell and take the loss.... jesus lad what a story A, Correct but the problem might have appeared after fitting and you driving it... B, Not if the A garage said it was 100% sound, thats like getting a engine where stated 100% and thne start to open her up to make sure... they trusted the gearbox simples. I'd go with getting a new box to be honest mate and then ask the garage to refund you the cost of the dodgy box and try and recover some of the cost to fit it to your car (if not all of it) (Id' go with a ne wbox from the same place, they'll be sure to get you one thats hopefully working this time!) NOW, what way was the box bought? Did you get any warranty with it? a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted September 14, 2010 Author Share Posted September 14, 2010 Hi Andlid, I'm planning to have a word with the supplier again tomorrow & tell them that I think they should be liable to give me a full refund and also pay/contribute to the fitting cost. Suspect they may laugh at me but I paid with paypal so may have some redress there at least for the purchase amount. I guess they can either say that the garage caused the problem (I haven't had the car back so cannot be blamed) or they may say that the garage should have noticed the fault before fitting. Best case scenario would be for garage to offer a deal on 1st attempt on the basis that I try again and for supplier to contribute to the lowered amount. Goodness knows if my negotiation skills are up to it. Ultimately the supplier has had my money and the garage have my car! Garage now say that they were suspicious because the little fluid remaining in the replacement box was black. Also if I ask the box supplier to prove that the box was removed from a working vehicle they may struggle.. Can't believe what a nightmare this is becoming - totally gutted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 Hi Andlid, I'm planning to have a word with the supplier again tomorrow & tell them that I think they should be liable to give me a full refund and also pay/contribute to the fitting cost. Suspect they may laugh at me but I paid with paypal so may have some redress there at least for the purchase amount. I guess they can either say that the garage caused the problem (I haven't had the car back so cannot be blamed) or they may say that the garage should have noticed the fault before fitting. Best case scenario would be for garage to offer a deal on 1st attempt on the basis that I try again and for supplier to contribute to the lowered amount. Goodness knows if my negotiation skills are up to it. Ultimately the supplier has had my money and the garage have my car! Garage now say that they were suspicious because the little fluid remaining in the replacement box was black. Also if I ask the box supplier to prove that the box was removed from a working vehicle they may struggle.. Can't believe what a nightmare this is becoming - totally gutted! feel for you mate, take it easy and keep it cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 Keeping cool is proving difficult. It's becoming clear that they are just going to blame each other. Garage says box was supplied knackered & supplier believes garage didn't put enough fluid in and then tested and caused the damage! I tend to take the side of the local garage but on the other hand I wish they had checked the pan first and not gone ahead with the replacement. Also they won't give a straight answer to the question "how many litres of fluid did you put in?" which is giving supplier an excuse not to refund... **** .....stuck...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 surely thats not your problem... a bit strange but I deal with similar things happening every day with different suppliers for a single solution. Hard one to call but you'll need legal advice on this and then move from there. In a great world the garage fitting and the garage selling/shipping would talk among themselves and agree who at fault and take the cost for it... leaving you with a working car, do you have all of this in writing? I'd start with legal advice take a glass of wine and think clear... not get emotional = flipping loosing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 surely thats not your problem... a bit strange but I deal with similar things happening every day with different suppliers for a single solution. Hard one to call but you'll need legal advice on this and then move from there. In a great world the garage fitting and the garage selling/shipping would talk among themselves and agree who at fault and take the cost for it... leaving you with a working car, do you have all of this in writing? I'd start with legal advice take a glass of wine and think clear... not get emotional = flipping loosing it! I wouldnt get legal advice just yet as the supplier and or garage will just get arsey make it harder for you. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 what would you suggest dblock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 what would you suggest dblock? +1, legal advice wouldn’t mean anything for the parties involved... I don't think I said seek legal advice and slap that in the face of the parties involved... seek legal advice since they who are the pro's would be in a better position to advice you on WHAT is the best way moving forward... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 what would you suggest dblock? Ahh ok get you Andlid. Firstly I would say to the garage why the checked the box with no fluid as now its your burden so its they wrong but dont be funny about it or try not to lose your cool unless they are being funny. Try and explain what happened to the supplier of the gear box and explain where you are and how much your out of pocket. Where abouts are you mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 hi dblock - i'm in norfolk the garage don't admit doing anything wrong at all but because they just say they 'topped up' and refused to tell the supplier how much fluid they put in the supplier surmises that they didnt use enough and caused the fault. On the one hand I can't believe the garage would make a mistake with the fluid needed but on the other hand I don't see why a supplier would sell a duff box and claim it was fully working since they'd be so unlikely to get away with it. One of them has caused the issue but how do I as just the punter make a judgement who to go after. As Andlid says ideally they would decide amongst themselves and make a proposal to me the customer.... hmmmmm- i may not be seeing the car for a while methinks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronzee Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 You're at the point, either keep communication by email, so you have written proof, or ensure you have someone with you, if you go into the workshop (or supplier). If an option, perhaps take the box to another workshop that you trust or know will give you a straight up answer in writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 Another day of no progress.... :-( Supplier says...: 1) Not enough fluid was used (4litres) and old fluid should have been drained. (Although they originally said they drained before sending) 2) Nissan J-Matic fluid was not used as recommended 3) Damage identified could be caused by short time testing if fluid was low or bad/wrong. Garage Says....: 1) Gearbox must have already been broken (although I am gutted that they didn't check pan/sump as when they later did it was a 20minute exercise). 2) They topped the fluid up to the dipstick level 3) That mechanical damage would not be caused by a few minutes testing 4) They know what they're doing and have years experience! I have told them both that as it is a stalemate I need either: 1) Both sides to decide it's 'a wash' and agree to both refund/waive charges for the failed attempt. 2) For them to agree to an independent inspection and agree to be bound by his ruling with the 'at fault' party being responsible for all the costs to complete repair and the inspection cost. This may end up with court costs etc etc and time....... I really desperately want them to go for option (1) on the basis that they can't agree what the cause is and this limits their losses. I am not feeling confident though - in fact it's depressing as I can't do anything until there is a resolution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 ... did you go off and get legal advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 not yet - trying to limit costs. might call consumerdirect 2moro tho.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 not yet - trying to limit costs. might call consumerdirect 2moro tho.. cost = 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Another day of no progress.... :-( Supplier says...: 1) Not enough fluid was used (4litres) and old fluid should have been drained. (Although they originally said they drained before sending) 2) Nissan J-Matic fluid was not used as recommended 3) Damage identified could be caused by short time testing if fluid was low or bad/wrong. Garage Says....: 1) Gearbox must have already been broken (although I am gutted that they didn't check pan/sump as when they later did it was a 20minute exercise). 2) They topped the fluid up to the dipstick level 3) That mechanical damage would not be caused by a few minutes testing 4) They know what they're doing and have years experience! I have told them both that as it is a stalemate I need either: 1) Both sides to decide it's 'a wash' and agree to both refund/waive charges for the failed attempt. 2) For them to agree to an independent inspection and agree to be bound by his ruling with the 'at fault' party being responsible for all the costs to complete repair and the inspection cost. This may end up with court costs etc etc and time....... I really desperately want them to go for option (1) on the basis that they can't agree what the cause is and this limits their losses. I am not feeling confident though - in fact it's depressing as I can't do anything until there is a resolution... IMO (2) will work out more expensive than just getting a new box. Unless they can get to (1) then I would choose who you dont want to upset. It might have been the garages fault but they have your car and are local and you might need them again or you know the supplier or you think your garage is dodgy. then just spend your time chasing a party which you think has more to blame and more from where you can possibly recover the costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted October 2, 2010 Author Share Posted October 2, 2010 Hi Guys. OK well I eventually got a full refund from the box supplier although they never admitted fault. I have sourced another more expensive used box with 55000miles. it should be fitted in the next few days. The last month has just been a nightmare so fingers crossed that it all turns out OK and there are no problems with this box or with fitting it...! The garage has offered me a bit of help with the cost of the fitting so I won't have to pay the full price for both attempts in exchange for keeping both the busted boxes. (mine and the other faulty one) wish me luck..>! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Hi Guys. OK well I eventually got a full refund from the box supplier although they never admitted fault. I have sourced another more expensive used box with 55000miles. it should be fitted in the next few days. The last month has just been a nightmare so fingers crossed that it all turns out OK and there are no problems with this box or with fitting it...! The garage has offered me a bit of help with the cost of the fitting so I won't have to pay the full price for both attempts in exchange for keeping both the busted boxes. (mine and the other faulty one) wish me luck..>! Nice one mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Light at the end of the tunnel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marzman Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Can you get an auto-electrician to read the codes on the car before letting the new box go anywhere near it? Worth the extra 50quid for safety's sake no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted October 3, 2010 Author Share Posted October 3, 2010 didn't know there was any danger. ecu reads problems with all four o2 sensors and the tp sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 Hi Guys. Well here's the latest.... (nightmare) 2nd new (used) box fitted yesterday, I got a call to say that it was working but the shifts are made late (2.5krpm) so I went & collected the car & paid a re-negotiated £500 labour so I'm now £1000 down overall. However as soon as I started to bring the car home i noticed slippage in 4th and 5th gears (other three gears seem fine but who knows if things will stay that way!) the symptoms are basically exactly as they initially appeared with my original box. either way i decided i didn't want to take the car back to that specialist with all the history (and I could tell he wanted to wipe his hands of it) so i brought it home i have txted him and he says it must be a control fault and I should take to nissan to be 'scanned'. presumably they will just get the errors from an obdm device as the 'specialist' did (will post later as i have a printout). does anyone else think its worth doing this. my understanding is that the 'transmission control module' (tcm) is somewhere inside the car and remains unchanged so perhaps this can be diagnosed in a similar way to the ecu? does anyone know if the slippage symptoms could be caused by an ecu/tcm fault or would this always be a mechanical issue - this is three gearboxes now with basically the same symptoms to varying degrees! any advice/help/suggestions would be gratefully received as I am at my wits end, out of money and still daren't go very far with the car. thanks in advance. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dblock Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Hi Guys. Well here's the latest.... (nightmare) 2nd new (used) box fitted yesterday, I got a call to say that it was working but the shifts are made late (2.5krpm) so I went & collected the car & paid a re-negotiated £500 labour so I'm now £1000 down overall. However as soon as I started to bring the car home i noticed slippage in 4th and 5th gears (other three gears seem fine but who knows if things will stay that way!) the symptoms are basically exactly as they initially appeared with my original box. either way i decided i didn't want to take the car back to that specialist with all the history (and I could tell he wanted to wipe his hands of it) so i brought it home i have txted him and he says it must be a control fault and I should take to nissan to be 'scanned'. presumably they will just get the errors from an obdm device as the 'specialist' did (will post later as i have a printout). does anyone else think its worth doing this. my understanding is that the 'transmission control module' (tcm) is somewhere inside the car and remains unchanged so perhaps this can be diagnosed in a similar way to the ecu? does anyone know if the slippage symptoms could be caused by an ecu/tcm fault or would this always be a mechanical issue - this is three gearboxes now with basically the same symptoms to varying degrees! also on way home the 'slip' light came on a few times at very low revs (not while cornering hard or anything & at v slow speeds) and wouldn't go out (meaning the tcs system took power away) until i came right off throttle and back on. Is there any connection between the traction control systems & my transmission problems - it doesnt seem logical at all. any advice/help/suggestions would be gratefully received as I am at my wits end, out of money and still daren't go very far with the car. thanks in advance. pete Sorry to hear that mate, you must be gutted. TBH you would be mad to go back to that "specialist" anyway. I would get the car scanned and PM Zmanalex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350pete Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 hi dblock - yes deffo gutted. when you say scanned what do you mean. surely there's no point getting them to read ecu fault codes as the only codes i get when i check are for o2 sensor heaters... will nissan be able to scan the TCM directly for info? i tried pm'ing alex but got no reply - is he regular on here...? maybe i'm doing it wrong...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulie Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Oh Pete this is just awful, you must be gutted. Hope it all gets fixed quickly and with little further cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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