Ferrari 458.... any one want one??

[Dblock]

Depends on the 430. Id be looking at about £80k to upgrade. The upgrade differential will also close over time. It will probably widen for a while until the second hand 458's start to appear and then that will be the time I ask myself the question.

 

The retail on a new 458 is about £170k before options. So call it £190 by the time youve added a few frilly bits.

 

wow you have a 430, its a hero chariot and and anyone who drives one is a champion lover . Pics?

 

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=37584

 

Cheers Stew, once again lovely lovely car

[Digsy]

I'd take my chances with a 458 if I had the cash. Judging by the spate of tests that have come out in the last week or so it seems to be the supercar to beat. Not sure about the toytown dash though....

[Chesterfield]

The only bit that I have any concerns over is the indicators on the steering wheel. Ive been out and conciously tried to make note of where my wheel is at the time I would put the indicators on. At staggered cross roads where you turn left and then almost immediatley right, the wheel would be upside down having just applied a fair ammount of left lock.

 

I suppose its something you would get used to.

 

As regards beating it, its going to be very interesting to see what the Mclaren comes up with. With a reported 0-60 of 2.8, it smashes the 458's 3.4, but to be fair when talking of 0-60 times in this region its splitting hairs anyway, as Id consider anything south of 4 to be chuffing quick.

 

Mclaren pitch the mp4 12c as a Ultimate car for the core market. i.e. Veyron/zonda/koenigsegg performance and design into the 458 price band.

 

Most drivers, myself very much included will get nowhere near the limits of either the 458 or the mclarens performance ability, so it comes down to design, looks, and how the car makes you feel.

 

Another thing to consider is that for less than the upgrade cost of a 430 to a 458 you can get the novitec upgrade for a 430, adding twin superchargers. At 707bhp and over 700 ft/lb torque it makes it quite the monster, and will out drag an enzo, never mind a 458.

 

Ill bet the clutch last about five minutes though!

[bounty78]

Depends on the 430. Id be looking at about £80k to upgrade. The upgrade differential will also close over time. It will probably widen for a while until the second hand 458's start to appear and then that will be the time I ask myself the question.

 

The retail on a new 458 is about £170k before options. So call it £190 by the time youve added a few frilly bits.

 

How much?? Right..who wants a spare kidney

[Chesterfield]

All the others got a price hike at the same time when the 458 came out. Every time a new revision of the "baby" Ferrari comes out, the price goes up. If Mclaren can start undercutting it in price and outperforming it; its going to be interesting what happens.

 

I would not be shocked if the mclaren does outperform the 458, and it gets a few reviews pipping the 458, we start to see a few second hand 458's appearing sooner rather than later.

[Biggy]

Imagine nipping into Halfords for an air fresher and seeing this when you come back

 

 

Is it me or should those cars behind it, shouldn't they of had some fire damage as well?

[Sarnie]

Depends on the 430. Id be looking at about £80k to upgrade. The upgrade differential will also close over time. It will probably widen for a while until the second hand 458's start to appear and then that will be the time I ask myself the question.

 

The retail on a new 458 is about £170k before options. So call it £190 by the time youve added a few frilly bits.

 

Think you've got your figures a bit wrong mate.

 

The most expensive 430 on PH, 2009 plate from a dealer with low miles is £109k, and most 458's are currently £220k.

 

So unless you have a 2009 430 the upgrade price is going to be north of £120k at least.

 

Forget about list price as Ferrari are quoting late 2012 for orders placed now which will guarantee low numbers and therefore making residuals rock solid for a few years.

 

The 458 is an amazing car, but would I pay £120k PLUS a 430 for one? No.

[Chesterfield]

Having actually spoken with a dealer, and for a fact know of cars being sold for mid/late 2011 delivery at the list price plus options, and knowing what I would be offered for my car or could probably sell privately for; I can advise I have not got my figures wrong.

 

Besides which who said anything about delivery times - I could sell now and wait the full 3 years and it would be an £80k switch.

 

Im going on a little more than piston heads adverts on unknown cars and the silly prices that LHD 2010 458's are up for, but if thats what were using....

 

Cars with the same basic spec as mine on PH are on for between 90 and 100k. Rosso exterior, Crema interior, rosso carpets, F1, 2007. Mine has under 2k miles on the clock and a few extra options like the leather roof lining, carbon fibre dash additions, bluetooth, and various other bits. But lets discount the options and say I also got the lower 90k.

 

That would leave me 80k short of a 458 at list. Chuck a few options in and it would be nearer £95k. However unlike other "owners" of similar cars past and present I actually own mine and am not paying for it on a monthly basis waiting for the ballon payment to come round. That will go for whatever replaces it, hence Im not in a position to make that decision now anyway, as it will take some time to save up.

 

Another thing to consider is that although there are 458's available at list price for late 2011 delivery, you will not see them on pistonheads or autotrader. The cars are sold to existing customers of those dealerships long before anyone else gets a look in. I know for example of a low miler scuderia that is already sold to an existing customer and it wont appear on any dealers website, pistonheads or anywhere else. The same is true for 458 orders that for whatever reason are being passed on to customers other than the original one.

[Sarnie]

No need to be so defensive Chris

 

My point about delivery times is that whilst deliveries of new cars are so far away, this will keep residuals almost depreciation proof; for a while anyway, meaning the price to upgrade is not going to come down anytime soon.

 

Anyway, as I said, I think the cost to upgrade is ridiculous, when you consider you could buy another 430 and have change left over......

[Chesterfield]

Im only defensive as you are wrong.

 

You probably wont see a 458 below list for two years. I was also informed that a 458 was a three year wait, but having spoken to dealers and other owners, it is common knowledge that you can get a car 2011 if you can drop on the right order that has been passed over.

 

The upgrade is quite a jump, but if we took the 350z 370z comparison it would be just the same, only bigger numbers....

 

A late 2007 350Z with very low miles (under 10k miles) is around £16k going by autotrader. A new 370z Gt is circa 32k. Thats a 100% increase. Makes the 90% increase going from a 430 to a 458 look like a bargain when its broken down like that.

 

 

Ferrari have stated they want to get the delivery times down on new cars, and the 458 is the first one they want to do this with. Obviously they arent going to get them down to ford focus delivery times as the depreciation then would be a joke. But they are hoping to reduce them.

 

Also, factor in Mclarens entrance into the market at the same price point and what is (on paper at least) superior performance and quality. They bill the mp4 12c as an ultimate sector car (Veyron, zonda, koenigsegg etc) for the core market (458, gallardo etc). It will be very interesting to see what this does to the 458 market. Will there be many 458 owners dumping the 458 to get into their mclaren? Will people who have their names on the list for a 458 be contacted with the option to buy a second hand one sooner who knows?

[marzman]

God, you could buy my Fiesta 60 times for the upgrade price alone...

 

(shameless plug) viewtopic.php?f=32&t=40115&hilit=fiesta

[Sarnie]

Im only defensive as you are wrong.

 

You probably wont see a 458 below list for two years. I was also informed that a 458 was a three year wait, but having spoken to dealers and other owners, it is common knowledge that you can get a car 2011 if you can drop on the right order that has been passed over.

 

The upgrade is quite a jump, but if we took the 350z 370z comparison it would be just the same, only bigger numbers....

 

A late 2007 350Z with very low miles (under 10k miles) is around £16k going by autotrader. A new 370z Gt is circa 32k. Thats a 100% increase. Makes the 90% increase going from a 430 to a 458 look like a bargain when its broken down like that.

 

 

Ferrari have stated they want to get the delivery times down on new cars, and the 458 is the first one they want to do this with. Obviously they arent going to get them down to ford focus delivery times as the depreciation then would be a joke. But they are hoping to reduce them.

 

Also, factor in Mclarens entrance into the market at the same price point and what is (on paper at least) superior performance and quality. They bill the mp4 12c as an ultimate sector car (Veyron, zonda, koenigsegg etc) for the core market (458, gallardo etc). It will be very interesting to see what this does to the 458 market. Will there be many 458 owners dumping the 458 to get into their mclaren? Will people who have their names on the list for a 458 be contacted with the option to buy a second hand one sooner who knows?

 

But I'm not wrong about getting into a 458 TODAY, not in 2/3 years time, which is what i was talking about initially.

 

I can't see masses of 458 owners jumping ship to the MP4 12C, maybe the odd few, for me the MP4 is not a patch on the styling of the 458. Even if performance is slightly better, most of these cars will never see a track or a drag strip so its all much of a muchness.....

[Chesterfield]

Not wishing to sound argumentative for the sake of it, but you are wrong about getting into a 458 today. The cars on PH and Autotrader seem to be people trying their luck. From what Ive seen they are ALL left hand drive too.

 

So if you want to get into a proper RHD 458, you will need to speak to a dealer. Why do you think all those very rare 458's are still sat on pistonheads weeks later if they are the only way for someone to get into one?

 

Also, as Ive said the cars that come available via dealerships are sold to people before they hit Autotrader or anywhere else. There are a few people cancelling orders for whatever reason, or asking dealerships to pass the orders on. Do you think the dealers put these on autotrader/Piston Heads, or do you think they pick up the phone to existing customers that have shown an interest and pass the order on that way?

 

If an existing customer wanted to be in a 458, they could be within 12 months and for a lot less than the 120k upgrade on a 430 that you quoted.

 

The point that most cars will never see a track is rather moot to be honest, as people aren't buying them for how quick they may be on a track. They buy them for the status symbol factor, the brand, the styling and a multitude of other reasons. Its the fact its new, on paper faster, and rare. Thats what will shift the mclaren to the buyers.

[H5]

There will probably be an 80:20 split on 458 buyers anyway.

80% will probably be putting them next to their existing F430 which is sat next to their wife's California.

20% will be the lease / hire / first timers that won't be upgrading.

 

The 80% won't care about the money as much, it is play cash and probably more governed by where they can put it than how much it costs. (Also the fact that people are investing in cars at the moment helps hold a lot of prices up).

 

The 20% will just be paying interest for a long time

 

You could have the same discussion about the 360 to the 430 though. Look at the upgrade costs there. Basically they are an evolution of the last one, but Ferrari seem to leap forward rather than step.....

[Chesterfield]

True there is a lot of evolution in each one.

 

Having spoken to a few owners, Id say the 80/20 is reversed. 80% will be changing a 430 or similar for the 458. 20% will be adding to a collection. Id actually say it would be a minority that would be keeping a 430 and 458 at the same time. The collectors seem to have one of each "type". Ie one hyper car (F50, enzo, F40), one classique, one current 430/360 etc and maybe another like a 612 or Daytona.

 

The only time Ive seen collectors have more than one of a similar type is when they are either classiques or hyper cars (F40 and F50 at the same time).

 

Ive actually spoken to one owner who was more than capable of buying a showroom full, pass up the 458 in favour of a scuderia 430. Given the performance levels of the scud are incredibly similar to the 458 I can sort of see the point. But he was a bit of a petrol head whom takes the car to le-mans and or track time on a regular basis. Just had the front end of his current 430 repainted as it looked like a shotgun had been fired at it with all the chips

[Ekona]

Personally I can't stand either the 458 or the MP4-12C: The Ferrari looks over fussy (although functional) and the McLaren looks like Generic Supercar Drawn By 8 Year Old. I've no doubt they're both amazing to drive, and I'd prefer the Ferrari as I'm an NA over FI man (even if the flat plane crank does sound like a bag of nails), but neither of them really interest me at all.

 

 

Now the AMG SLS on the other hand... Beautiful looks and a soundtrack to match. DO WANT

[Sarnie]

Not wishing to sound argumentative for the sake of it, but you are wrong about getting into a 458 today. The cars on PH and Autotrader seem to be people trying their luck. From what Ive seen they are ALL left hand drive too.

 

So if you want to get into a proper RHD 458, you will need to speak to a dealer. Why do you think all those very rare 458's are still sat on pistonheads weeks later if they are the only way for someone to get into one?

 

Also, as Ive said the cars that come available via dealerships are sold to people before they hit Autotrader or anywhere else. There are a few people cancelling orders for whatever reason, or asking dealerships to pass the orders on. Do you think the dealers put these on autotrader/Piston Heads, or do you think they pick up the phone to existing customers that have shown an interest and pass the order on that way?

 

If an existing customer wanted to be in a 458, they could be within 12 months and for a lot less than the 120k upgrade on a 430 that you quoted.

 

The point that most cars will never see a track is rather moot to be honest, as people aren't buying them for how quick they may be on a track. They buy them for the status symbol factor, the brand, the styling and a multitude of other reasons. Its the fact its new, on paper faster, and rare. Thats what will shift the mclaren to the buyers.

 

The 458's on PH are of course, speculators, hence the mark up over list.

 

My point, which you keep missing, is that to upgrade to a 458 TODAY and NOT in 12 months etc, is at least £120k as there are no unsold 458's sitting on dealer forecorts at list price. Of course there is the odd cancellations of orders etc but these will be few and far between with dealers only recieving a few cars themselves, plus the chances for it to be in the exact spec you would want would pretty slim. Also, anyone passing on their order will still lump on a premium, as probably will the dealer, therefore the price is likely to be list plus at least £15k.....

[Chesterfield]

They have an SLS sat in the showroom in Chesterfield, had a nose round while we were there the other day. The front end and interior are great, but the back end looks horrid in my opinion. Its also the back of the 458 that Im least fussed about too - tripple exhaust is a bit Max Power Corsa stylee for me.

 

The soundtrack of the SLS AMG is the one for any car to beat at the moment though I reckon. Heard it at the GP and it is truly brilliant!

[Ekona]

I had an SLS pass me in a petrol station in Belgium last month, and the old chap driving was good enough to give it some beans as I stood there next to it, much to the displeasure of his wife!

 

It's the first Merc for years that I'd give a testicle to own.

[Chesterfield]

Did you offer him a swap for the left or the right one?

[Ekona]

Tbh I might even give both!

[docwra]

I happened to have a tour of the Ferrari factory a few weeks back, including the production line for the 458 (they m,ake the Cali on the same line, V12's are upstairs). It is absolutely achingly beautiful, and seeing them being driven off to Fiorano to be tested I can confirm it makes an amazing noise too. The McLaren is going to have to be something special to come near to the soul stirring effect the 458 has, for sure.

 

All of the cars they are making for at least the next 3 months are sold, and I was surprised to see about 3 in 10 were RHD as well. I also asked if they had any test driver jobs going but sadly they are all taken

[Dblock]

I happened to have a tour of the Ferrari factory a few weeks back, including the production line for the 458 (they m,ake the Cali on the same line, V12's are upstairs). It is absolutely achingly beautiful, and seeing them being driven off to Fiorano to be tested I can confirm it makes an amazing noise too. The McLaren is going to have to be something special to come near to the soul stirring effect the 458 has, for sure.

 

All of the cars they are making for at least the next 3 months are sold, and I was surprised to see about 3 in 10 were RHD as well. I also asked if they had any test driver jobs going but sadly they are all taken

 

I would love to see the factory your a lucky man

 

I just think it depends TBH a 'Rari is a 'Rari but if its a petrol head spending the money he might get a rari. If its someones knowledge of cars comes from watching top gear and Clarkson WILL tell everyone the McClaren is better as its Brittish then they will buy one.

 

Ferrari's which I used to loathe just make you go all giddy.

[ATTAK Z]

 

I just think it depends TBH a 'Rari is a 'Rari but if its a petrol head spending the money he might get a rari. If its someones knowledge of cars comes from watching top gear and Clarkson WILL tell everyone the McClaren is better as its Brittish then they will buy one.

 

Ferrari's which I used to loathe just make you go all giddy.

And in English ?

[Stew]

 

I just think it depends TBH a 'Rari is a 'Rari but if its a petrol head spending the money he might get a rari. If its someones knowledge of cars comes from watching top gear and Clarkson WILL tell everyone the McClaren is better as its Brittish then they will buy one.

 

Ferrari's which I used to loathe just make you go all giddy.

And in English ?

 

 

I agree with DBlock to be honest.