Mixing Tyres (and why you really shouldn't!)

[martinmac]

Dan has been asking for detailed stats from manufacturers today and they have not been very forthcoming.

[andlid]

No real surprise there....

Dan has been asking for detailed stats from manufacturers today and they have not been very forthcoming.

[docwra]

I just have three points that if anyone can disagree with then more power to them.

 

1. Running Re040's on the back and Re050's on the front is a hell of a lot safer in all conditions than running Nankang ditchfinders all round. Any given tyre that provides you with better grip, water dispersion and heat management is going to be better than one that doesnt, even if it doesnt match whats on the other axle.

I dont need graphs, charts or data to prove that - good tyres are always better than @*!# ones, thats common sense.

 

2. I have personal experience of the above and I really dont care what the Nissan Sports GB Manager says - Nankang NS2's all round are by far the worst combination for grip and predictability Ive had on my car, particularly in the wet. Every other set of tyres Ive had have been mismatched and Ive been a lot more confident with them.

 

3. I will happily accept that Re050's front and back is the best solution, but IMO its more because they are the best tyres, full stop, not because they are matching front and back. Tyres are not co-dependant like suspension is.

 

As I said from the outset I wasnt looking for a row here, but the argument that seems to be being presented here is that matching your tyres is the most important thing. It isnt - tread depth, tread design, compound and the general quality of the tyre all have more bearing on grip. Road conditions and alignment can affect your car far more than mismatched tyres can, and the most important bit is the lump of flesh behind the wheel.

 

As I said in the first instance, I agree with the principle but there are numerous factors, IMO at least, that you should be considering first. I dont want people to blindly buy 4 matched Nankangs and think thats the best answer because it isnt.

[Husky]

You clearly don't have any form of technical background, which is ok, but you have to see there are some very qualified people trying to help explain this to you so you understand.

 

I dont need graphs, charts or data to prove that - good tyres are always better than @*!# ones, thats common sense.

 

As an engineer there is nothing worse that making an assumption :doh:

[Scottie]

I think some of us are going to have to agree to disagree on this unless we can get some definite proof. I'm a technical professional, and I am completely open to any data somebody wants to present to me, in fact I'm sad enough to enjoy interpreting it :-)

 

I do like to analyse the source and reliability of any given information though.

 

What I am interested to know is whether anybody claiming running 050's at one end and 040's at the other end results in an unstable car and crash waiting to happen is actually running this setup. Because I am and it's superb.

 

Generally I do try and match all four tyres to the same brand, but when buying a car with 040's all round, the rears went and IMO it's better to replace these with 050A's and then when the front go put 050A's on them.

 

There's a good chance I'll be using my car to compete in TOTB this year, so hopefully we'll get to see just how stable it is on the handling circuit with this mix of tyres...if we get some rain we should even get some good lap times :-)

 

I think there is far more we agree on here than disagree on, and really the difference between what we are saying will in real live be minimal effect.

[Husky]

I think there is far more we agree on here than disagree on.

 

+1

[Greekman]

just put new rear 050As and kept the PS2s at the front. front ones are about 40% down. rears 35 psi and adjusted fronts to 36 psi to compensate a bit on the difference on the side wall stiffness. nitrogen all over.

cant notice anything with the ESP but thats cos the racelogic overrides it. the back feels a bit more stiff now tho.

will keep you posted.

 

ps i really doubt it will make any difference on reasonable driving...but i dont think i am reasonable...

[docwra]

You clearly don't have any form of technical background, which is ok, but you have to see there are some very qualified people trying to help explain this to you so you understand.

 

Thanks. I worked as a software and hardware test engineer for 3 years, but I guess that doesnt count as technical huh?

 

I dont need graphs, charts or data to prove that - good tyres are always better than @*!# ones, thats common sense.

 

As an engineer there is nothing worse that making an assumption :doh:

 

If you are arguing that poor tyres can sometimes be safer than very good ones then I really dont think I need to say anymore.

We have already had the claim that mismatched tyres may kill you, and it now seems that you are recommending using 4 matched tyres of dubious quality over 2 high quality pairs ....... despite my obvious lack of "technical background" thats just preposterous.

 

Im sorry, but what started out as good advice has now turned into crazy talk.

[Ekona]

I'm telling you that four matched tyres will give a better balanced car than two and two mixed, it really is as simple as that. Will they give more grip? Depends on the tyres, more than likely not, but it will be more stable and that's the key. I'd hope that no-one is daft enough to run tyres that cheap/nasty on their pride and joy, and really the lowest I would be looking to buy would be tyres around the T1R/452 quality. Personally I wouldn't even go that low, but they are at least a known quantity and a quality brand.

 

 

 

 

 

Tbh if people want to read all this and still run mismatched tyres than they can go right ahead, just please don't expect any sympathy from me when car meets ditch/Armco/tree. If you want to take sensible, logical, reasoned advice from myself that Nissan themselves agree with and ignore it, then that is of course your prerogative.

[Chris`I]

We have already had the claim that mismatched tyres may kill you, and it now seems that you are recommending using 4 matched tyres of dubious quality over 2 high quality pairs ....... despite my obvious lack of "technical background" thats just preposterous.

You seem to have missed what has been happening recently. Replacing 2 worn out quality tyres with other quality tyres (of different makes) would probably be ok. But if you are replacing quality with quality, why not just get the same that was on there already? What we are seeing more of is quality tyres being replaced with cheaper ones. What we are suggesting then, rather than running 2 poor tyres and 2 good tyres, is that they stump up the cash to get 2 good tyres instead

 

What we are also saying is that 4 tyres of the same make/type (whether good or bad) is more predicatble for the average Joe than mixing. You are experenced enough to know that mixing tyres will cause them to react differently to before they were mixed, but again the average Joe (who lets face it, is willing to put ditchfinders on a Zed ) doesnt know that, mixes them and then has troubles. This post is meant for them, to tell them not to be silly and spend a bit more cash to get good tyres and not put them in danger. You can save money getting Falkens for example, but going with something poorer quality is just dangerous!

[tez162003]

i am running 040's on the front and avon zz2's on the rear (what previous owner put on) and i am scared to go into a corner with any thing that resembles pace.

 

The t/c kicks in like mad. i dont care what anyone says, mixing tyres on these cars aint good, maybe worse on the more drastic tyre differences front and rear, like mine. maybe not so bad on similar tyres like all 4 mixed being asymetric rather that 2 asymetric and 2 directional.

 

I am just trying to hold out until i get the new wheels, so i can get good matching tyres all round.

[docwra]

Chris I - nice one, some sanity at last. I fully agree that you should be putting on the best tyres you can, for sure. What Id add though is that for me, replacing a front FK452 with an RE050 is an improvement, even if youve got FK452's on the rear as well. Perhaps it is down to my experience but I cant say I ever make an assumption about the level of grip Im going to get, even if Im driving the car two different times on the same day

 

i am running 040's on the front and avon zz2's on the rear (what previous owner put on) and i am scared to go into a corner with any thing that resembles pace.

 

The t/c kicks in like mad. i dont care what anyone says, mixing tyres on these cars aint good, maybe worse on the more drastic tyre differences front and rear, like mine. maybe not so bad on similar tyres like all 4 mixed being asymetric rather that 2 asymetric and 2 directional.

 

And this is half of the point Im trying to make here - the reason you are suffering Tez is more likely to be the fact that ZZ2's are absolute pants, not that they dont match the fronts. Put even FK452's on the rear and I guarantee you will notice a marked improvement, even though they dont match the 040's on the front.

[Husky]

i stil think this should be gutted and then stickied.

[Dblock]

You clearly don't have any form of technical background, which is ok, but you have to see there are some very qualified people trying to help explain this to you so you understand.

 

I dont need graphs, charts or data to prove that - good tyres are always better than @*!# ones, thats common sense.

 

As an engineer there is nothing worse that making an assumption :doh:

 

I wouldnt say that, A very knowledgble member on both sxoc and driftworks.

[Greekman]

rear left tyre was highly illegal so needed tyres asap. i could only get 050As for the next day.

after some some unreasonable driving over the weekend i can confirm that tha car is absolutely brilliant. used to be severely oversteery but now i cant get it to skid...sometimes not even on first gear!!!

 

now i need to see how it is in the wet.

i understand the logic behind the whole thing but i really think a test day with lots of data is needed to confirm it. otherwise is just assumption that seems logical.

[docwra]

rear left tyre was highly illegal so needed tyres asap. i could only get 050As for the next day.

after some some unreasonable driving over the weekend i can confirm that tha car is absolutely brilliant. used to be severely oversteery but now i cant get it to skid...sometimes not even on first gear!!!

 

You mean you didnt die??!!

 

I dont think a test day is really viable as there will be so many different combinations it would be impossible to do them all - you would really have to use the same car as well, and you then open the "everyones car is different" can of worms. Despite my lack of a technical background, I can see it would be a pretty pointless exercise

 

You *could* ask a load of guys who get through loads of tyres regularly (sometimes 10/12 per day) what their opinions of the best combinations are but I imagine they would probably confirm, as you have probably just found, replacing a cheaper, less grippy tyre with a grippier one generally has one major effect - it makes the car grip better.

 

Oh and Dblock - thanks.

[jimgallaher]

Excellent post which explains a lot, to me anyway. I bought my zed a month ago, haven't driven a rear wheel drive since the 80's, my zed had Re040s on front (at least 6mms of grip), and brand new Autogrip F109's on rear. The car seemed fine when driving dry roads, but would get twitchy on one particular stretch of road on my way home from work. A gradual left hand sweeping bend, my traction control lights would flash and as a welsh friend so succinctly phrased it my a*rse was making buttons. Dunno why this particular stretch of road caused these problems, maybe a strange camber or poor surface. I started wondering at this point had a made a mistake buying the zed, having been driving fast fords for the past few years, front wheel drive, but very predictable handling. Then as is the norm here in Ireland, it rained, what a nightmare, the car frightened the life out of me, on good roads that I know well, the handling was horrendous. As per suggestions on this forum, I bit the bullet and replaced all four with Falken 452's. Best £400 I ever spent, it was a different car, I've clocked up nearly a 700 miles in 2 weeks, in dry and wet, a roads and b roads, motorway and not so much as a hint of traction control coming on. Being a miserable sod, I was reluctant to change what were effectively almost and in the case of the rears actually, brand new tyres, but I'm soo glad I did. As someone said I've spent best part of £17k on my car, why jeopardise it for the sake of a few 100 pounds for a decent set of tyres.

[docwra]

Much like the guy who swapped the ZZ3's off his car, I think thats the improvement youve got from taking off budget tyres and replacing them with something halfway decent. Ive never even heard of Autogrips myself .......

[Demolition49]

Much like the guy who swapped the ZZ3's off his car, I think thats the improvement youve got from taking off budget tyres and replacing them with something halfway decent. Ive never even heard of Autogrips myself .......

 

Avons are not that bad its just bad when they are mixed!

[docwra]

Much like the guy who swapped the ZZ3's off his car, I think thats the improvement youve got from taking off budget tyres and replacing them with something halfway decent. Ive never even heard of Autogrips myself .......

 

Avons are not that bad its just bad when they are mixed!

 

I know I said Id leave it alone but read back what you have just written.

 

You are saying that the front tyres you use are actually changing the grip levels of your back tyres. If you use ZZ3's on the front then the ZZ3's on the back magically become better somehow??

[Greekman]

MPS2s and 050As are mixing just fine so far. even in the wet.

in fact comparing to how it was with worn out rear MPS2s now its brilliant!

again i cant comment on the ESP kicking in early. its always off now or bypassed if i wanna play.

suspension always set on stiffest.

[trackpig]

I have continental contact sport 3 on the rears and RE050as on the fronts.

This setup came with the rays I purchased and I've stuck with them.

 

The car feels very neutral- I am happy with it.

 

I would always prefer 4 matched tyres though.

 

To sum up- 4 good quality matched tyres is the best bet, 2 different sets of good quality tyres are still ok but just be aware of varying grip levels in wet and dry conditions from the different tyres.

[Fee]

Excellent post - at the beginning anyway!

 

Bought my zed in the summer and unfortunately it has mismatched front/rears.

REO40's on the front and acceleras on the rear...

 

Having had numerous scary situations whilst driving (sensibly!!!) in the wet, notably one at 3 o'clock in the morning on the M62 during monsoon like conditions... ...I had begun to think I couldn't drive and it was me!!! Thanks to this informative post, and the advice of friends with zeds, I am going to save up and treat my zed to a new set of shoes...ALL FOUR MATCHING!!!

 

Thanks again...I do like this forum!

[docwra]

Fair play Fee, but Id point out the Acceleras cost a third what the RE040's do new. Again, I dont think the mismatch is the major issue in this case.

 

Get RE's all round though and the difference will be huge.

[rzua5]

Very well said and informative

I've seen some people running summer at the back and all-season at the front, thats just not right