The Budget

[Zedrush]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... cs/budget/

 

some good and some not so good, but at least better than last parties attempts to reduce the deficit

 

just want to know whats going to happen to the human rights act, I know conservative wanted to employ bill of rights, not sure what this involves, but human rights act needs to go, its a joke and works in favour of the criminals

[Dene8]

Human rights act needs to go, its a joke and works in favour of the criminals

 

Human rights should only come into effect for those who act like humans, fluffy cotton wool justice system needs a serious overhaul......!!

 

Really looking forward to the 20% VAT next year too..........

[geoff-r]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/

 

some good and some not so good, but at least better than last parties attempts to reduce the deficit

 

just want to know whats going to happen to the human rights act, I know conservative wanted to employ bill of rights, not sure what this involves, but human rights act needs to go, its a joke and works in favour of the criminals

 

Absolute joke isn't it. I think they should bring back the death penalty to cut the deficit, I don't see why we should support the sick bastards locked up, especially Venables.

[martinmac]

I think it did exactly what it said on the tin. Addressed the serious deficit whilst not unfairly targetting those who may seem to be obvious targets.

 

Well done for applying a bit of common sense to a very difficult task.

[Ekona]

Must admit, I can't see a lot wrong with it either. As a higher rate tax payer it'll hit me more than others who are on the basic rate, but I appreciate that we're all in the same boat and the country needs to be sorted out now rather than letting things get worse. In one respect it's a huge gamble for the Conservatives as they've now promised to eradicate the deficit by the time we're due a next General Election, so if they haven't done it by then then there's no way they'll get a second term. On the other hand, if they get it bang on (and I hope they do) then there's a big two fingers up to Labour really.

 

 

I very much doubt we'll see the back of the Human Rights Act with this government, as the Lib-Dems won't want to get rid of that and put something stricter (more common sense?) in place. If they manage to get anything through that isn't related to financial stuff in the next few years I'll be amazed, they've really got their hands full right now.

[kevlo]

i'm probably going to get flamed for this because its a bit biased as im a non smoker and a only drink on special occasions.

 

I cant believe they havent put the tax up on booze and fags. Why should everyone suffer with a 2.5% vat increase and public sector workers have there pay frozen when a luxury which no one any good goes untouched.

 

i.e joe bloggs who is a nhs worker giving his 110% everyday helping needy people has a pay freeze no matter how hard he works and how much he deserves it but people who smoke and drink for the better of no one doesnt suffer in anyway. i think that is crazy.

 

In the most part i agree but i would have thought they would have looked at luxuries first before anything

[tmJak]

I was quite chuffed with the budget. I didn't notice a positive difference when VAT was down at 15%, so I'll be surprised if I notice it going to 20%. And public sector wages being frozen is much much much better than them being cut, as was rumoured

 

I don't have any children tho, and some of my collegues are looking to be £170 a month worse off becuase of the child benefit things.

[ATTAK Z]

I was quite chuffed with the budget. I didn't notice a positive difference when VAT was down at 15%, so I'll be surprised if I notice it going to 20%. And public sector wages being frozen is much much much better than them being cut, as was rumoured

The cuts come next mon ami

[buster]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/

 

some good and some not so good, but at least better than last parties attempts to reduce the deficit

 

just want to know whats going to happen to the human rights act, I know conservative wanted to employ bill of rights, not sure what this involves, but human rights act needs to go, its a joke and works in favour of the criminals

 

Absolute joke isn't it. I think they should bring back the death penalty to cut the deficit, I don't see why we should support the sick bastards locked up, especially Venables.

 

 

can of worms but know what your sayin.....

[tmJak]

I was quite chuffed with the budget. I didn't notice a positive difference when VAT was down at 15%, so I'll be surprised if I notice it going to 20%. And public sector wages being frozen is much much much better than them being cut, as was rumoured

The cuts come next mon ami

 

Say's they're being frozen for 2 years - do you know more than me? I know they're planning to increase the pension contributions

[ATTAK Z]

I was quite chuffed with the budget. I didn't notice a positive difference when VAT was down at 15%, so I'll be surprised if I notice it going to 20%. And public sector wages being frozen is much much much better than them being cut, as was rumoured

The cuts come next mon ami

 

Say's they're being frozen for 2 years - do you know more than me? I know they're planning to increase the pension contributions

Surely nobody thinks this is the end of it all .... when we've been softened up and it's clear to everyone that more needs to be done to get us back on track, then you'll see wage cuts or at least a longer freeze ......... local authority wages have effectively been frozen for the last 2 years anyway ....... no rise last April and an under inflation rise the year before

[rtbiscuit]

there goes my pay rise in september

[bounty78]

i'm probably going to get flamed for this because its a bit biased as im a non smoker and a only drink on special occasions.

 

I cant believe they havent put the tax up on booze and fags. Why should everyone suffer with a 2.5% vat increase and public sector workers have there pay frozen when a luxury which no one any good goes untouched.

 

i.e joe bloggs who is a nhs worker giving his 110% everyday helping needy people has a pay freeze no matter how hard he works and how much he deserves it but people who smoke and drink for the better of no one doesnt suffer in anyway. i think that is crazy.

 

In the most part i agree but i would have thought they would have looked at luxuries first before anything

 

+1 Footballer's wages should be capped. Think they miss that in the budget.

[neo]

^^^ agreed,professional footballers are paid way way way too much for what they actually do

[Ekona]

But a footballer already pays more in a year than a basic NHS worker does in a lifetime*. Why should they pay more than that? They don't cause economies to crumble if they get things wrong (a la banks), and in fact a successful football team will bring in a lot of monies not only in the immediate area, but also possibly nationwide too. The very biggest clubs attract huge investment from overseas, which then gets spent in this country by highly paid footballers who go to smaller businesses because they want something no-one else has got. You and I buy from B&Q, they buy from John Miller of JWM Furniture Makers just off the North Circular who does very expensive one-off bedside cabinets.

 

Very few people go into the NHS because they want to be rich, they do it because of a general need to help others and for that I give my thanks. They know that it's low paid, but they love the job so much that they still go in with their eyes wide open. Should they be paid more? Well yes, of course if the country has the funds then by jove they should, but the NHS (and the public sector in general) has never been about ultimate wages. You'll always earn more in the private sector, but you take the risk that you won't get the guaranteed work that you do in the public sector.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Assuming footballer earns £5.2M (£100K per week) and NHS worker £20K.

[bounty78]

The footballers get paid an obscene amount of money so much so that they have forgotten how to play international football with passion and love for the country. All they want to do these days is stage a coup against the manager and coming up with excuses each time they underperform. And cheat on their wife. Suppose that is what u do when u have so much money and cars and u just don't know what to do with your spare cash and time.

[spursmaddave]

i'm probably going to get flamed for this because its a bit biased as im a non smoker and a only drink on special occasions.

 

I cant believe they havent put the tax up on booze and fags. Why should everyone suffer with a 2.5% vat increase and public sector workers have there pay frozen when a luxury which no one any good goes untouched.

 

i.e joe bloggs who is a nhs worker giving his 110% everyday helping needy people has a pay freeze no matter how hard he works and how much he deserves it but people who smoke and drink for the better of no one doesnt suffer in anyway. i think that is crazy.

 

In the most part i agree but i would have thought they would have looked at luxuries first before anything

 

Totally agree, more tax on luxuries like booze and fags that way the people clogging up the hospitals will actually be helping the country out instead of being even more of a burden than they already are. I survived Cancer and had to lay in a ward with smokers dragging their drips and machines outside to smoke, made me sick, quite literally.

[Ekona]

All they want to do these days is stage a coup against the manager and coming up with excuses each time they underperform. And cheat on their wife.

Sounds like most men in most offices around the country

[maz0]

Thats me on a 2 year pay freeze. Sigh.

 

I think this sums it up nicely.

 

"Derek Simpson, general secretary of Unite, the country’s biggest union with two million members, said: "Where is the promised fairness in cutting the wages of needy households yet fighting shy of closing the tax loopholes which allow the wealthy to dodge their duty to this country?"

[Chesterfield]

There have been mass redundancies, companies closing doors and private sector jobs being shed for getting on two years plus now. The public sector has been relatively sheilded from the real world issues of the countries financial status. Derek Simpson wouldn't know how to live in the real world of the private sector if someone handed him an idiots guide.

 

Can anyone show me a private sector industry where employees are GUARANTEED a pay rise every year, regardless of the state of the company?

 

If a private sector company were in the financial disarray that the public purse is in now, there would be mass redundancies and hefty pay cuts just to survive. Yet Derek Simpson seems to think that the "rich" should just be squeezed more in order to continue to allow the public sector to continue largely in fantasy land.

 

Whils I agree that there are jobs worthy of pay rises; Nurses, firemen, paramedics, etc. There are a MASSIVE number of public sector workers that wouldnt be able to find their backside with both hands if they were to try and get a job in the private sector. Useless bumbling idiots that get paid extremely well to do a job that they simply cant do, or would be expected to do for half the wage in the private sector.

 

Oh and I suppose in his (simpsons) attack against "loopholes" being used by the rich to avoid their "duties to the country" , he will also volunteer to pay the benefit in kind tax bill on his grace and favour home that is being paid for by Unite. Nope, he doesn't. The £40,000 bill is picked up as part of his expenses. He even cut a deal for the house to be available to his wife after his death for a nominal rent. Derek Simpson may be able to talk the talk and get a massive swathe of luddites to baaa to his every word, but look deeper and you'll find one of the biggest hypocrites to walk the face of the planet.

[ATTAK Z]

There have been mass redundancies, companies closing doors and private sector jobs being shed for getting on two years plus now. The public sector has been relatively sheilded from the real world issues of the countries financial status. Derek Simpson wouldn't know how to live in the real world of the private sector if someone handed him an idiots guide.

 

Can anyone show me a private sector industry where employees are GUARANTEED a pay rise every year, regardless of the state of the company?

 

If a private sector company were in the financial disarray that the public purse is in now, there would be mass redundancies and hefty pay cuts just to survive. Yet Derek Simpson seems to think that the "rich" should just be squeezed more in order to continue to allow the public sector to continue largely in fantasy land.

 

Whils I agree that there are jobs worthy of pay rises; Nurses, firemen, paramedics, etc. There are a MASSIVE number of public sector workers that wouldnt be able to find their backside with both hands if they were to try and get a job in the private sector. Useless bumbling idiots that get paid extremely well to do a job that they simply cant do, or would be expected to do for half the wage in the private sector.

 

Oh and I suppose in his (simpsons) attack against "loopholes" being used by the rich to avoid their "duties to the country" , he will also volunteer to pay the benefit in kind tax bill on his grace and favour home that is being paid for by Unite. Nope, he doesn't. The £40,000 bill is picked up as part of his expenses. He even cut a deal for the house to be available to his wife after his death for a nominal rent. Derek Simpson may be able to talk the talk and get a massive swathe of luddites to baaa to his every word, but look deeper and you'll find one of the biggest hypocrites to walk the face of the planet.

Don't know this Derek Simpson guy, is he a union guy ? if so what yu say is true for all union bosses ....out for themselves using workers as cannon fodder

[Chesterfield]

Yep - hes secretary of Unite.

 

Making huge ammounts of money from subs paid by the low workers they represent. Yet people still follow them. Another "loophole" I suppose he was happy about when it was cut was the introduction of the new special allowance for pension contributions for those earning over £130k. Now, any contributions over £20k into a pension are subject to 40% of anything paid in over the £20k level. With his pension contributions being very near this level and his remuneration being into the £200k + level Im sure he is really chuffed about this one...

[rtbiscuit]

as a public sector worker i don't like my pay freeze, but i do understand why its needed. what i struggle with is that my pay is less than my friends in the private sector. i have slowly been working towards an equal salary compared to some one in the private sector with the same qualifications, time in job, experience etc. my pay stopped moving in 2 years when i hit thresh hold.

 

i thought that the public sector pay freeze was aimed at people in councils and white hall who were on 100k 200k salaries with massive pension payouts. but they seemed to have carpet bombed everyone.

 

i'm not currently a member of a teaching union (naughty i know, but couldn't justify the cost over the last few years) but i know that the 3 main unions in my school have already organised meetings to discuss the current changes. the next couple of years could be interesting.

 

if the front line workers like police, fire, nurses and teachers decide to strike it could see the likes of the 3 day week again.

 

i prsonally don't know what to think and am just glad i have a job and a roof over my head. if times get hard i can always sell the car or take up a 2nd job.

 

if they remove the pension scheme for teachers i can see mass walk outs and people quitting in huge numbers.

[Chesterfield]

Unfortunately there will be a massive number of workers who dont understand why these freezes are necessary, and will do just that, strike.

 

The police cant strike though, so they are a bit stuck.

 

Im sure there are examples of public sector workers that are paid less than the private sector counterparts, but I bet you dont have to look far in your own part of the public sector to find someone who is a "lifer". They have been there since day dot, and thanks to annual pay reviews and guaranteed rises etc, are now on a very high wage for a job that is no more challenging than your own. There are thousands of these in the public sector, and that is what is costing money. They also tend to do these things in percentage terms, meaning the already high earner gets a larger pay rise than a low earner, even if that low earner scores higher and receives a larger percentage rise. Its just crazy.

 

For years they have persisted in the guaranteed pay raises regardless of economic conditions, and they haven't dared shed any staff for fear of strikes. Just hoping that natural attrition will cull the numbers enough. Any priivate sector firm operating in that manner would be lucky to survive. Indeed many haven't.

 

I believe the public sector pay freezes affect those earning over £20k, so yes a bit of a blanket catch all (or most), but probably necessary imho.

 

It is funny you mention the unions starting to talk already. Im certain we will see the unions kicking up a fuss, but to be honest they need to take their heads out of their backsides for one minute and survey the mess we are in.

 

Look at BA for an example of just how blinkered Unions can be. The company is losing money. They have less passengers to transport, and costs of running the airlines (fuel and business taxes to name just two) have risen. Net result is that they have to cut costs, or go bust. Its a very very simple mathematical exercise. The last strike cost BA around £30m, and the union boss rejected the next BA offer as it was £30m less than before. Is he just a blithering idiot or what? His union take action that costs the company £30m, and is then surprised when the company reduces their offer by £30m. Or was he just expecting the magic money fairy to take care of that?

 

Unions serve a purpose in ensuring that workers get a fair deal and they have their rights adhered to, but when it comes to cutting costs to survive, then they need to be realistic.

 

This country's debt is currently growing by over £10,000 per second, and the unions are going to argue against cuts...

 

I suppose they are the kind of people that when they cant afford to pay off their visa bill, the best thing to do rather than cut back on spending, is maybe just go out and spend a load on beer to take their mind off it...

 

Or we could let the situation persist, get the IMF in to sort it out, and have a currency so devalued that buying anything manufactured outside Britain (which thanks to the taxes on manufacturing in this country is just about everything) will be ridiculously expensive. Im sure the Unisions jumping up and down is nothing to do with the fact they have a ready made bandwagon/soap box to jump on in the hope of maintaining the stream of subs coming in to fund their lavish lifestyles, and has everything to do with the fact they actually understand the dire economic mess we are in..

[rtbiscuit]

there are people in consultancy who are paid alot for a job i could do with my eyes closed, and its because of these that we all get stung. i know of head teachers who have been crap at theri job, but because its so hard to fire someone in teaching unless you catch them stealing or touching children that alot get promoted to an advisory role and get more money (go figure) so you have incompetants telling others how to do there job, it is silly.

 

i agree about the unions as well its also part of the reason i have joined one.

 

i think for now all we'll have are talks, i don't think there will be any action, even if we see job cuts. i think the only time the teachers will walk out is if their pensions are removed.

 

i don't think teaching is one of the worst areas, but you look at the NHS which ahs more managers and consultants than actual doctors and nurses; then you can start to see the waste.

 

i would have preferred to see large cuts in whitehall; removing the red tape that the last muppets all put in; before hitting front line workers.

 

but at the end of the day if it gets us out of the @*!# then its a sacrifice worth paying.