AndyC Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 ....following on from your reasonably recent offer of "assistance"/questions in the legal sense, whats your thoughts on this one mate: Lets assume that someone was going down the motorway, there was traffic around them but not loads. Lets say that they accelerated to pass some traffic in order to come off at the next slip road as they didn't know where they were going so didn't know that the junction was coming up (had obviously missed/not realised at earlier signs). They didn't cut anyone up or cross straight over 2 lanes of road or do anything else dangerous whatsoever. When they exited the motorway they realised that they were being followed by the Police who continued following for around 1mile. Lets further assume that the Police then pulled them and said that they had been speeding on the motorway at around 96mph. Lets then assume that the Police said that they had clocked his speed by timing him between the bridges, however at the time they were some distance behind (lets assume a distance of around 5 cars). I'm not sure if in this scenario there were any cars in between the 2 but I'd suggest there were. Lets finally assume that the person in question has received a court summons and is a little worried. Whats your thoughts mate? Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated (obviously this isn't a specific case its mearly a made up scenario). PS I hasten to add that the scenario is not based on myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennydies Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 For the police to clock your speed would they not have had to timed your between the bridges using a stopwatch and have to know the exact distance between the bridges, using a calculator work out the average speed. Is that admissible as evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'm pretty sure that it is a valid method and I think is quite often used. http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/speed03.htm As a further question for Ming, what is the minimum distance that the police must follow you and measure your speed from their car (ie not between 2 known points); I think there is a minimum of 1/3rd mile or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 For the police to clock your speed would they not have had to timed your between the bridges using a stopwatch and have to know the exact distance between the bridges, using a calculator work out the average speed. Is that admissible as evidence? Well this is the thing, I'm pretty sure that it would need to have been off timing marks as there isn't a set distance between the bridges. I'm not sure what other equipment they had (although see below) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'm pretty sure that it is a valid method and I think is quite often used.http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/speed03.htm As a further question for Ming, what is the minimum distance that the police must follow you and measure your speed from their car (ie not between 2 known points); I think there is a minimum of 1/3rd mile or something? Thanks Dorian, I don't think that the car in question had VASCAR. I did ask our mythical person but they were convinced there wasn't VASCAR????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 ....following on from your reasonably recent offer of "assistance"/questions in the legal sense, whats your thoughts on this one mate:Lets assume that someone was going down the motorway, there was traffic around them but not loads. Lets say that they accelerated to pass some traffic in order to come off at the next slip road as they didn't know where they were going so didn't know that the junction was coming up (had obviously missed/not realised at earlier signs). They didn't cut anyone up or cross straight over 2 lanes of road or do anything else dangerous whatsoever. When they exited the motorway they realised that they were being followed by the Police who continued following for around 1mile. Lets further assume that the Police then pulled them and said that they had been speeding on the motorway at around 96mph. Lets then assume that the Police said that they had clocked his speed by timing him between the bridges, however at the time they were some distance behind (lets assume a distance of around 5 cars). I'm not sure if in this scenario there were any cars in between the 2 but I'd suggest there were. Lets finally assume that the person in question has received a court summons and is a little worried. Whats your thoughts mate? Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated (obviously this isn't a specific case its mearly a made up scenario). PS I hasten to add that the scenario is not based on myself. Hi Mate Speeding is not my forte as I spend most of my time in drug enforcement but I would suggest the following. ALL police cars can be used for speed enforcement. All that is needed is for the officer to get the speedometer calibrated. Traffic cars have this done automatically but normal Pandas do not so they would have to get the speedo calibrated AFTERWARDS!! Lets assume it was a traffic car - most panda drivers would not bother on the motorway with speeding unless there were TWO officers in the car as one corroborates the other and both are corroborated by the speedo - then its speedo is callibrated. Rather than giving a snap shot of the speed as in "You were doing 96.2mph" They prefer to say that you averaged "96 mph over .... distance" It may well be that the distance between the two bridges is already well known and used regularly. If they were claiming 76 mph I would say you had a chance of arguing it but 96 could be a problem. I would be tempted to ask to see proof of speed and see what they provide. If it is note 100% reliable then offer the fact that in your opinion you were actually just under 86. This is normally the difference between court and a fixed penalty which is the difference between 3 and £80 and more points and big fine AND potentially a DISQUALIFICATION!!!!!!!!!! If the evidence is all over the shop then plead not out and let them PROVE your speed. If it gets to court and the trial starts and you have not been provided with the proof of calibration etc then any evidence of the speeds claimed is out of the window as the right to a fair trial states that you as the defendant are entitled to a copy of ALL the evidence. They cannot produce any evidence that you have not had copies of!! It is all a bit of a gamble and if it gets to the stage where they are offering to deal with it by way of ticket I would snap their hand off personally. Just my Ramblings Ming the Official Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'm pretty sure that it is a valid method and I think is quite often used.http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/speed03.htm As a further question for Ming, what is the minimum distance that the police must follow you and measure your speed from their car (ie not between 2 known points); I think there is a minimum of 1/3rd mile or something? Again not 100% on this but forces tend to err on the side of caution. (The limit for drink driving is 34 but all forces that I know of do not prosecute under 40) Therefore they may set a specific distance before they prosecute. Do someone a serious damage though and they will take you for speeding over a foot and a half mate Hope this help Ming the Lawman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winged Rodent Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 How VASCAR works: http://www.pepipoo.com/VASCAR.htm I believe that the minimun distance that the Police have to follow you for or minimun distance to time you over is 0.125 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 How VASCAR works: http://www.pepipoo.com/VASCAR.htm I believe that the minimun distance that the Police have to follow you for or minimun distance to time you over is 0.125 miles. Consider this. A police officer is classed as a professional witness. Two officers stood by the side of the road see a car fly past. Both agree that it is considerably over the speed limit- shall we say 50 in a 30 - and locate the driver and report him. One corroborates the other and the matter could go to court! Its no different than two officers seeing a disq driver and later presenting him to court. Its their evidence. I did the later a couple of weeks ago and he went to jail. Ming the Helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Ming you're a star mate I really appreciate your input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Ming you're a star mate I really appreciate your input No probs mate. Nice to be able to help. Cheers Ming the Happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam's Z Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Fingers crossed Andy for your make believe story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted September 14, 2006 Author Share Posted September 14, 2006 Fingers crossed Andy for your make believe story Cheers dude its all hypothetical obviously and fortunately in this hypothetical situation described its not me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Fingers crossed Andy for your make believe story Cheers dude its all hypothetical obviously and fortunately in this hypothetical situation described its not me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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