kennyc Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I think I just had my first experience of how bad the Bridgestones really are (unless someone tells me it's just the way the zed handles). I was on the A50 dual carriage way, the road was wet, I exited a roundabout and just about to overtake, started to accelerate when the car started to fishtail unexpectedly, traction control was on but didn't kick in. Now I've had the back end out before but this was just a bit of a surprise Is this a Bridgestone thing?? I wasn't going mental with a heavy right foot before anyone asks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I think I just had my first experience of how bad the Bridgestones really are (unless someone tells me it's just the way the zed handles). I was on the A50 dual carriage way, the road was wet, I exited a roundabout and just about to overtake, started to accelerate when the car started to fishtail unexpectedly, traction control was on but didn't kick in. Now I've had the back end out before but this was just a bit of a surprise Is this a Bridgestone thing?? I wasn't going mental with a heavy right foot before anyone asks Yep they are crap in the wet. Not too bad in the dry but crap in the rain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I think the Bridgestones are more prone to this than others - anecdotal evidence. Usually its a fact of what happens after rain in summer, the oil and tar is squeezed out more rapidly than usual causing your tyre boundary to be on water and oil - hence no grip. Easy to spot after rain has stopped, look at the road and see the rainbow effects, this is oil on the surface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I agree the Bridgestones aren't good in the wet (or the dry tbh!), but I've still had this with the Falkens (albeit, to a much lesser degree) in the wet. You just have to be aware that if you're giving it a lot of beans in the wet, on a bend (eg. when straightening out of a round about), that the rear end may step out a little as it has momentum. I tend to feed the power out gently and stay alert for any twitches if I try this. Tbh, 50% throttle is usually quick enough to get around most people anyway in this circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captint Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Its got to be Michelins all the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomoto Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 hasd a similar experience when I first had Zed ...all down to the Bridgestones.. never had any problems when using Falkens or the Continentals.... thread here- http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyc Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 Fair enough, I thought the tyres were the main cause, the trouble is they've done 8K miles and there's still LOADS of tread on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomoto Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Fair enough, I thought the tyres were the main cause, the trouble is they've done 8K miles and there's still LOADS of tread on them LOL , mine had done 10k still ended up in the bin, better the tyres than the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Fair enough, I thought the tyres were the main cause, the trouble is they've done 8K miles and there's still LOADS of tread on them LOL , mine had done 10k still ended up in the bin, better the tyres than the car I think that over-eggs it Tim, the tyres may not be the best in the wet but there are in no way dangerous. Its simply a matter of driving with their limitations (if you believe they have them) in mind. When I got my S/C, the 18" could not hold the power for sure and Toyos on 19" are much improved but NA I never really recall having an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomoto Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Fair enough, I thought the tyres were the main cause, the trouble is they've done 8K miles and there's still LOADS of tread on them LOL , mine had done 10k still ended up in the bin, better the tyres than the car I think that over-eggs it Tim, the tyres may not be the best in the wet but there are in no way dangerous. Its simply a matter of driving with their limitations (if you believe they have them) in mind. When I got my S/C, the 18" could not hold the power for sure and Toyos on 19" are much improved but NA I never really recall having an issue No honestly Dorian , I firmly believe that the Bridgestones are a dangerous tyre for the UK market, I'm sure they will be fine for warmer climes than ours... where heat is already in the tyre.. Saying that if you just pottle along there will be no issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Fair enough, I thought the tyres were the main cause, the trouble is they've done 8K miles and there's still LOADS of tread on them LOL , mine had done 10k still ended up in the bin, better the tyres than the car I think that over-eggs it Tim, the tyres may not be the best in the wet but there are in no way dangerous. Its simply a matter of driving with their limitations (if you believe they have them) in mind. When I got my S/C, the 18" could not hold the power for sure and Toyos on 19" are much improved but NA I never really recall having an issue No honestly Dorian , I firmly believe that the Bridgestones are a dangerous tyre for the UK market, I'm sure they will be fine for warmer climes than ours... where heat is already in the tyre.. Saying that if you just pottle along there will be no issues I'm with you Tim, definately a tyre not for the UK. Even the tyre fitter who was putting on my Falks said that the Stones are pretty much useless until you get some heat into them - not much use in the rain/cold/snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyc Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 Hmmmmmm maybe they won't last until 9000 miles then!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 When I got my S/C, the 18" could not hold the power for sure and Toyos on 19" are much improved but NA I never really recall having an issue the fact that they are on 19" is irrelevant apart from bragging rights what you want to point out is the extra width of the new ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty Z Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Iam just expressing my opinion but I dont think there is anything wrong with the bridgestones they are not a wet weather tyre but when driven correctly offer a reasonable amount of grip in the wet. I have tried many makes of tyres mostly on the s14 which has more power than the Z and no girlie TC: toyo's,goodyear f1's,avon's and have found that none of them have as much grip as the bridgestone's when warm there amazing. I found the toyo's just sqeaul at the first sign of G and just melt when you get them really hot but I agree there better when it's wet but I still would nt buy them. If I was after a wet weather tyre I Would go for the goodyear F1's they out perform the toyo's in wet and dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 When I got my S/C, the 18" could not hold the power for sure and Toyos on 19" are much improved but NA I never really recall having an issue the fact that they are on 19" is irrelevant apart from bragging rights what you want to point out is the extra width of the new ones That seemed blindingly obvious to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 When I got my S/C, the 18" could not hold the power for sure and Toyos on 19" are much improved but NA I never really recall having an issue the fact that they are on 19" is irrelevant apart from bragging rights what you want to point out is the extra width of the new ones That seemed blindingly obvious to me Sorry gents, generally if you have a larger diameter wheel it is "usually" also larger in width (at least according to all rim size comparators to maintain VDC on our cars) and fitted with a 275 tyre - Im sorry if you didn't get that message and mistakenly assumed that I was bragging unnecessarily about my car rather than making a helpful point having moved from one size to another Although I would scarcely dare to mention it, 19" wheels are usually somewhat heavier than 18"s and perhaps might create additional downward pressure onto the road due to that Oh and finally, they might also (who can say) have a higher moment of inertia so that for a given real wheel torque would experience less rotational acceleration and thus be less prone so slip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 No honestly Dorian , I firmly believe that the Bridgestones are a dangerous tyre for the UK market, I'm sure they will be fine for warmer climes than ours... where heat is already in the tyre.. Saying that if you just pottle along there will be no issues I would beg to differ. Whilst I aggree the bridgestones are A SUMMER TYRE they are infact advertised as this! I was not present at the time this happened but I am sorry to say its probably down to driver input rather than JUST a tyres fault. I have Bridgestones on the car currently and whilst I agree abot oil residue on a surface after extended periods of sunshine I could not blame the characterisics of the tyre for this stepping out. In fact you would be suprised how little yaw you are actually creating on the car hence the reason the ESP did not kick in. Alot of people presume they are sliding when in fact they are rolling on the tyre wall. As for saying they are not suitable for UK use they are no different in their characteristics to any other SUMMER TYRE I have used such as the Pirelli P Zero series or the Continental or Goodyear equivelant. As suprising as this may sound to some, it is expected by companies, that people who can largely afford a 30k sportscar can afford to place a winter set of tyres on their car. I know it sounds like madness but this is done in order to obtain maimum performance under optimum condition "right out of the box" so to speak. This is why performance cars come with performance rubber an extreme example being the Lotus exige were it is fittted with A048's (cut slicks) A uk car company providing a car with tyres that are DEFINITELY not suitable for UK conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Although I would scarcely dare to mention it, 19" wheels are usually somewhat heavier than 18"s and perhaps might create additional downward pressure onto the road due to that Im no scientist but I thought that the wider a contact patch the Less pressure was placed on a surface area? Also the weight of the wheel will only effect the unsprung mass( I will check that though to verify Im right) and not the pressure on the surface as the majority of weight is created by the 1500 kilos above the rims and not the incrememntal change from the weight of a 18 inch rim to a 19 inch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 The weight of the wheel is the primary part of what is driven and thus is very important along with radius in determining how rear wheel torque is transmitted (a combination of the two comprises moment of interia) and is related by J = I wdot so the greater the I the less the wdot and the less the tendency to slip for a given J Your point may wrt pressure - is that true longitudinally as well as laterally? The contact area is square-shaped not linear in one dimension see here under 'fat or thin' if the weight of the car (unsprung) is the same and if the contact area is much the same (with wider vs thinner), then increasing the weight of the wheel is unlikely to reduce the pressure is it? http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Yes but the point that was being made earlier referred to the wider contact patch (hence my disagreement in reference to surface area and not the degree of slip, and also refered to the additional weight being placed upon said surface area which when compared to the already massive 1500 kilos would actually have very little impact in difference. In addition to this the 19's were not tested using the same tyre compoind nor the same conditions. That was my point. At not point this I refer to a one dimenisonal contact point. I might also add that I am presuming that the 19 inch wheel would be in accordance to recomendation applied by nissan to equate to the same rolling diameter as a 18 inch wheel in order to keep accuracy in the speedo and therefore I would presume that the relational torque fiugres would be very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 You said the wider a contact patch the less pressure on the contact surface area; don't agree cos as stated in the link the unsprung weight is the same so the contact area will be much the same for the unsprung weight with simply wider tyres. But the bigger wheel weighs more does that increase or decrease the surface area relative to that norm? I know what I think. And ......... well I'm not going to repeat the MI point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 the question has not been asked why nissan fitted these tyres, after talking to mike brewer of sky televisions wheeler dealers who was employed by nissan on the tyre testing team, the result was the bridgestones gave resonable grip wet or dry but wore well, the toyos came out top gave excellent grip but wore a lot faster, so basically they were fitted due to cost and if you dont mind replacing your tyres more often there are better tyres out there. max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 If you read it again you will see I said " Less pressure was placed on a surface area" meaning that over a set area the pressure is reduced as the pressure remains the same but is spread evenly over the wider area, whereas in a narrower are the pressure over a given measure (e.g. per sq inch) would be increased as the contact patch is less but the pressure remains the same. We are in fact in total agreement you have just read my statement wrongly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty Z Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 he he this is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Ok - i was cross with Valerio in fact for just calling me a bragger as it goes Bigger is better for grip overall though due to the rot. dynamics and moment of inertia increasing due to mass primarily (the radius is also larger but that is probably nullifed by a different weight distribution) Bit quiet on the OC recently hasn't it been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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