Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Looking to sort out the bathroom this summer and want to put a pump in for the whole bathroom/house. Heard that Stuart Turner pumps are supposedly the best, but they can be noisy. Salamander are also coming up with good reviews. Anyone got a pump in the bathroom (2.5 bar or so) and how noisy is it? Looking at either http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products ... 0-bar-twin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zugara Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I got a shower pump its 2 bar pressure from homebase, was £190.00. I mounted it on an 1" thick rubber mat and made an acoustic box to go round it, you can still hear it when it is running tho. Also it will empty your hot water tank in one shower . Way we do it is to get wet turn off, soap up, rinse, turn off. etc! Never had any problems with the pump apart from debris in the inline filters. Think the pumps you are looking at are 22mm pipe? One i have is 15mm so was an easy fit. http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st ... searchtext>SHOWER+PUMP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Can you make a guide and put it up in the guide section I'd love a pump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 I got a shower pump its 2 bar pressure from homebase, was £190.00. I mounted it on an 1" thick rubber mat and made an acoustic box to go round it, you can still hear itwhen it is running tho. Also it will empty your hot water tank in one shower . Way we do it is to get wet turn off, soap up, rinse, turn off. etc! Never had any problems with the pump apart from debris in the inline filters. Think the pumps you are looking at are 22mm pipe? One i have is 15mm so was an easy fit. http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st ... searchtext>SHOWER+PUMP You really need 22mm pipe to the pump and then away from it, only going down to 15mm when you reach the taps and valves etc. I am a bit concerned my hot water tank may not be big enough, but I'm only looking for about 12 litres/min out of the shower so a standard one should be enough (there's only me here). Need to sort out a flange for the feed from the hot water, plus separate tanks for the cold and hot feeds in the roof and then sort out a wet room floor, so it's going to be a big job (plus underfloor heating and complete new pipework, move the bath, toilet and basin, re-tile, build a new shower enclosure and fit a new shower door!!!!) Can you make a guide and put it up in the guide section I'd love a pump! I'll do my best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 thats one big jobbie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 thats one big jobbie... Yeah, could be more than a weekend I reckon First thing is to take down the ceiling and redo all the pipework/tanks/ball valves etc and insulation in the roof..... Watch this space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 thats one big jobbie... Yeah, could be more than a weekend I reckon First thing is to take down the ceiling and redo all the pipework/tanks/ball valves etc and insulation in the roof..... Watch this space You'd be better off going FI on the car and rebuild the engine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 thats one big jobbie... Yeah, could be more than a weekend I reckon First thing is to take down the ceiling and redo all the pipework/tanks/ball valves etc and insulation in the roof..... Watch this space You'd be better off going FI on the car and rebuild the engine.... Probably cost less to go FI as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 thats one big jobbie... Yeah, could be more than a weekend I reckon First thing is to take down the ceiling and redo all the pipework/tanks/ball valves etc and insulation in the roof..... Watch this space You'd be better off going FI on the car and rebuild the engine.... Probably cost less to go FI as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350 Russ Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 hi mate, im a plumber if you need any help then just pm me, i had a quick read of what you are planning to do and i think its the long way round to be honest. Do you already have a cold water tank in your loft with a copper water cylinder in an airing cupboard? if you do then pm me and ill do a little diagram of how i would pipe it in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Would not all problems be solved with a new combi boiler negating the need for hot water cylinders cold water tanks in the roof etc. ............. or I am missing something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixy Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I have a pump on my shower, i have no idea what it is, it makes a bit of a humming noise from the loft but the shower is AWESOME!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350 Russ Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Would not all problems be solved with a new combi boiler negating the need for hot water cylinders cold water tanks in the roof etc. ............. or I am missing something ? depends on if he wants to spend an extra 2500 quid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 hi mate, im a plumber if you need any help then just pm me, i had a quick read of what you are planning to do and i think its the long way round to be honest. Do you already have a cold water tank in your loft with a copper water cylinder in an airing cupboard? if you do then pm me and ill do a little diagram of how i would pipe it in there. Hi Russ, thanks for the offer Yes, already have a hot water cylinder in the airing cupboard with a feeder tank in the roof, but also have a separate cold water tank feeding the current shower (a pumped Triton TS80i I put in years ago - bit like an electric shower, but pumped from a tank instead of using mains pressure). The problem I have is that the mains pressure here is non-existent and the hot water flow is just as bad (very little head), so a fully pumped system is the way forward (the current shower only pushes out about 4 litres/min). I am going to use the existing hot water cylinder and feeder tank for the hot side and the other cold water tank for the cold side (gives me enough water then to save running out!), all through the pump (hence the need for a negative/positive head pump) to feed all the hot taps in the house plus the cold taps in the bathroom. I'll leave the toilets/washing machine etc on mains so that the pump doesn't come on at night. The ceiling needs to come down anyway, so I may as well replace the pipework etc in the roof space and insulate it all properly - it's a mess up there at the moment as the house is about 200 years old and has been bodged before I moved in. Am I missing anything obvious in your opinion? Do you have any advice re what pump to go for? Hugh, a combi boiler is out as I have an oil-fired, dual-burner Aga in the kitchen that does both the cooking and heating and I don't want to replace that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 We've just had ours changed to an unvented cylinder type system which gives us equal hot and cold mains fed pressure. Its made a massive difference to our shower. The goal was to make it just like ones you get at hotels and it has succeeded. Not the cheapest solution by any means, but it has improved our heating and hot water no end. The improvements to the heating and the fact it hets up a lot quicker now also mean that we should save some money on gas too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 We've just had ours changed to an unvented cylinder type system which gives us equal hot and cold mains fed pressure. Its made a massive difference to our shower. The goal was to make it just like ones you get at hotels and it has succeeded. Not the cheapest solution by any means, but it has improved our heating and hot water no end. The improvements to the heating and the fact it hets up a lot quicker now also mean that we should save some money on gas too. Problem is my mains pressure is practically zero - I'm at the end of a long 15mm feed from the main pipe that goes to three other cottages before it reaches my house. You hardly need to bother turning the water off to do any repairs........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Mine wasnt great Neil. Im getting 12-16 litres a minute at the house, as I have about 100ft or so of 15mm running from the meter to the house. Only solution for me to get more was a new main from the road down the drive. Luckily for us the 12l/min is just fine for the shower so we didnt need to upgrade the mains. I can imagine with more than the two people in the house, then there may be the possibility of capacity issues at 12-16l/min. If there is an issue then another solution would be to retain the tank/s, but use them to feed a 3bar 30l/min pump which in turn feeds the unvented system. it just mimicks a 30l/min 3 bar mains until such time as your feeder tank runs out, at which point it drops back to the 12l/min. In effect if you are running off 30L/min and the mains is 12L/min, then you are draining your tank at 18L/min. with a 50 gallon tank thats going to take about 12 minutes to empty it. Or around 360 litres in that 12 minutes, or about 4 baths! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 Mine wasnt great Neil. Im getting 12-16 litres a minute at the house, as I have about 100ft or so of 15mm running from the meter to the house. Only solution for me to get more was a new main from the road down the drive. Luckily for us the 12l/min is just fine for the shower so we didnt need to upgrade the mains. I can imagine with more than the two people in the house, then there may be the possibility of capacity issues at 12-16l/min. If there is an issue then another solution would be to retain the tank/s, but use them to feed a 3bar 30l/min pump which in turn feeds the unvented system. it just mimicks a 30l/min 3 bar mains until such time as your feeder tank runs out, at which point it drops back to the 12l/min. In effect if you are running off 30L/min and the mains is 12L/min, then you are draining your tank at 18L/min. with a 50 gallon tank thats going to take about 12 minutes to empty it. Or around 360 litres in that 12 minutes, or about 4 baths! But if I'm using a 3bar pump to feed an unvented system, why shouldn't I just use the pump to feed the taps direct I only really want about 12 litres/min from the hot and sold taps in the house (not something I will get from mains feed alone on a regular basis here) (my mains pressure is sometimes that low that the old electric shower used to stop completely when anyone else in the road turned a tap on) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 If its only the one room you want to increase the hot water pressure, then if you take a flange off the tank and a feed from the cold water storage, then a single pump will be fine for the shower I believe. You couldnt pump the whole house in this manner though. There is a whole wealth of info on diynot.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff-r Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 I should probably know the answer to this or be able to help you as the family business is bathrooms, but alas I know nothing, I do numbers not bathrooms. We have a pump at home, no idea of pressure, it's powerful though, 4 of us shower in the morning without running the hot water out but we do have a big tank. It's all about the power shower though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 You couldnt pump the whole house in this manner though. Now I'm confused Why can't I use a pump for the whole house hot water (as long as it's designed for whole house use and capable of positive and negative head operation, ie pressure vessel built in)? I need it to supply the bathroom plus the kitchen and utility hot taps - surely I can just connect the hot feed from the pump into the existing hot water pipes that go downstairs and put new piping to the bath/sink/new shower in the bathroom. All this can be supplied from a "no loss" flange to the pump and blank off the normal hot water outlet on the top of the cylinder. The cold side will feed to the pump from the second, dedicated tank in the roof and just feed from the pump to the bath/sink/new shower in the bathroom Am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350 Russ Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 ill knock you up a little diagram of the easiest way to plumb it in, give me a little while, if you want more pressure then try raising the tanks in the loft to give you more head. You definatly can use a pump to run the whole house but you may start getting a few problems eventually with tap washers going and little leaks etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Thats a totally different manner! I meant you couldnt just pump the whole house without making lots of other changes, including not just using your normal run of the mill twin impeller pump and now moving to the whole house pump. If you pump the whole lot, then your limiting factor will surely be the rate of flow from the header tank to the hot water cylinder? With enough taps open wouldn't a whole house pump run the risk of emptying your hot water in double quick time, or possibly even drawing in air from the header tank? Ive never seen a whole house pump in action, but I would imagine they may not be as quiet as a normal shower pump. Also if a hot tap opens as well as the shower You will still need to retain the vent back to the header tank from the hot water cylinder though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 ill knock you up a little diagram of the easiest way to plumb it in, give me a little while, if you want more pressure then try raising the tanks in the loft to give you more head. You definatly can use a pump to run the whole house but you may start getting a few problems eventually with tap washers going and little leaks etc. You, sir, are a hero I haven't any room in the roof to raise the tanks (it's an old cottage with dormer windows upstairs). What sort of pump would you recommend? Are the two I posted in the first post suitable for my needs? I shouldn't need much more than 2.5 bar I wouldn't have thought for what I want (no body jets or anything like that) - just a fixed head shower through a thermostatic mixer valve, basin and bath hot and cold taps and hot feed to the kitchen and utility taps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbaggie Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 Thats a totally different manner! I meant you couldnt just pump the whole house without making lots of other changes, including not just using your normal run of the mill twin impeller pump and now moving to the whole house pump. If you pump the whole lot, then your limiting factor will surely be the rate of flow from the header tank to the hot water cylinder? With enough taps open wouldn't a whole house pump run the risk of emptying your hot water in double quick time, or possibly even drawing in air from the header tank? Ive never seen a whole house pump in action, but I would imagine they may not be as quiet as a normal shower pump. Also if a hot tap opens as well as the shower You will still need to retain the vent back to the header tank from the hot water cylinder though. there's only me here (unless I get very lucky ), so no worries on taps being open a lot. Only ever use the shower, basin for washing hands and washing up etc. Washing machine is cold feed only - think I'll be okay. Header tank for the hot water is a 50 gallon one, plus I'll have the same again for the cold side so should be plenty for me .... All I need to do is fit a flange to the cylinder to avoid air being drawn into the pump - the rest of the system can be used as is around the cylinder? Both of the pumps I listed are whole house pumps as far as I can tell..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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