The Uk's Speed Limits.......Outdated???

[BACON]

This topic carries on from a previous topic started by "Phinnies 1" regarding a possible speeding ticket and I was eager to learn your opinions on the idea that perhaps our national speed limits need refreshing or updating.

 

I do agree that 30 mph in all built up areas is necessary for the well-being of pedestrians and the like.............but are our national speed limits on the faster single carriagways and dual carriageways in the UK not a LITTLE OUT OF DATE in 2010????

 

Currently the Highway code states that at 30mph the stopping distance is 23 meters; at 40mph the stopping distance is 36 meters; at 50mph it's 53 meters; at 60 mph it's 72 meters and at 70 mph (for we never go above this speed do we??? ) the stopping distance is 96 meters. But are our national speed limits not dependant upon these stopping distances calculations which have not been updated for a few years now???

 

I understand our stopping distances are governed by weather/road conditions, type and condition of vehicle, load etc; not to mention the age, health and mental ability of the driver can all affect the time taken to react and stop; but surely as a general rule our cars and vehicles are much better designed and equipped to handle higher speeds with improved stopping abilities!!!

 

Does this not mean our speed limits should reflect our advancements in car technology and design now in 2010????

 

Your thoughts please?

[mattbowey]

i agree completely.

 

one thing i feel should be changed for sure is a night time speed limit, picture it, driving home, say a 3 hour stint and you are supposed to stay at 70, but the roads are completely empty, dry, and your lights are working fine.

 

why exactly can you not put your toe down?

 

this would be for motorways obviously, possibly long stretches of dual carriageway.

 

i realise this may encourage racing but the minority of idiots who would do that surely do it already.

[Demolition49]

I agree for the most part but unfortunately there are still cars that are from the 90's and much older on the road with crappy/ non-existent brakes. So for a general rule it would be better to err on the safe side! The law is the law!

 

But what i do think is the plod should have some sense and use thier discretion! i mean if its 3am the motorways are empty and you are going over the limit and there are no side roads/joins on the road it pretty much limits the danger and in this kind of instance the police should use thier discretion. But unfortunately it isnt like that!

 

Best thing to do i guess is save it for the track, its nice to go fast and i do speed but i see the logic behind the speed limits.

[maz0]

Have to disagree. Every time I drive home from work and its raining, there's a tail-back because some idiot can't alter their driving style to accommodate the different conditions. Sure you can drive, and I personally think I can drive. But for us 2, there's another thousand idiots who can't, and if given the ability to drive an extra 10 MPH they would probably become even more lethal.

 

And although our cars are better equipped etc, there is still thousands of old shambles which aren't. It's a shame really, because if we all drove well, and had good cars...maybe there could be a safe increase. But that's not the case, and as usual the majority of idiots ruin it for the minority of decent folk.

[James B]

Would I be correct in assuming you recently received a speeding ticket and are sore about it?

 

I do agree with the point though. I think 80mph would be perfectly safe, with a fine above 90-95. At the end of the day if somone can't drive for @*!# they are gonna cause an accident at any speed they drive at.

[Ekona]

Cars are much better, but 99% of the people behind the wheel are useless. I can name just one person out of my family and friends who I consider to have the necessary skill set to be able to drive on the roads at a faster speed, going on how well I know them and having witnessed their driving style up close.

 

 

Go to the IoM and see just what it's like driving on UK-style roads with no limits, it's absolutely beautiful when every one around is used to it. Locals will actually pull over to let you pass, and the roads have far less signage so you're made to think about what's going on around you.

[bounty78]

Might b slightly off topic..Thing that really does my head in is when u see slow drivers in the third outermost right lane holding up everyone else that is going fast. Or big lorry overtaking each other side by sides using up the slow and the fast lanes causing a long tailback

[Ruddles]

The main problem surrounding this is the re-assessment of 60mph roads, now half of them have become 50mph!! This now produces more congestion and (along my road at least) more accidents... (poor bike rider t-boned an Artic's trailer..) this is all down to 'safety measures' put in place to protect us, yet if the bike rider had been going 60 and not 50 during the stretch of road it is fairly safe to say he would still be here today!

[martinmac]

I would agree with raising the limit on motorways in principal but as I sit listening to the lengthy road report on radio 2 I think the amount of accidents, closures and delays would shut the country down.

 

Too many useless drivers and too much traffic on the roads.

[mattbowey]

i am often amazed at some ppls lack of ability to drive, especially on motorways and in bad weather

 

i was nearly killed as a passenger in a head on collision because the lad driving thought overtaking someone doing 50 in a storm on a 60 road wasnt necessary. shame we were in an old 1l saxo with @*!# brakes, no power and an idiot driver, else it might have been a different story.

 

i think i will have to agree with demolition here, better use of discretion would probably be the best option, at least until all the clapped out old bangars are off the roads.

[sasha@lazytrips]

The problem is that the most up-to-date speed limits were introduced on the basis of calculations done in 1960, some 50 years ago. Back then they had to account for cars from the 40s in calculating sensible speed limits. Sure there are a lot of plonkers on the roads, but let's bring things into perspective. When talking about "old" bangers from the '90s, you are still talking about cars which are 50 years more technologically advanced than when the current speed limits were introduced. Most of the accidents I see day-to-day on the road are nothing to do with the speed limit of a road, but are to do with junctions, not paying attention and not keeping a safe distance. All these will continue to cause accidents whatever the speed limit.

 

I don't want to be bringing up numbers, but there are plenty of examples (eg. Poland with huge speed limits or Germany without them at all) which prove that in the modern era, it is all about the driving standards as opposed to the legal speed limit.

 

***

 

One important thing that really gets to me is the argument that "bad" drivers are the reason speed limits should not be increased. Surely, the implication should be the eradication of "bad" drivers and the subsequent re-in-station as "good" drivers. Harder driving tests, more scrupulous driving education standards & programmes, re-testing, you name it.

 

If you have a leaking pipe somewhere in your house and you wish to install a power shower, is the answer to not install one as the leak will get bigger and the pipe might burst?

[mattbowey]

thats a good point, i forgot the limits were set so long ago.

 

i agree on the testing too, how come you dont drive on a motorway when learning? and you dont have to drive at night, or in different weather. its just whatever the conditions are when you book your lessons and test.

[sasha@lazytrips]

thats a good point, i forgot the limits were set so long ago.

 

i agree on the testing too, how come you dont drive on a motorway when learning? and you dont have to drive at night, or in different weather. its just whatever the conditions are when you book your lessons and test.

 

Yup. Good points on motorways, night-time, etc +why do you do the test in a car of your choice. The minute you walk out, you are theoretically equipped to drive any car of your choosing, so you should be made to do the test in any reasonable car provided to you by the instructor, etc, etc, etc.

 

What ticked me off was the fact that all driving tests got canceled when the snow & ice hit the roads. So if the person passed the day before, went and bought themselves a £200 banger, they'd be safe to drive that in the conditions, but not a certified, regularly serviced quite new instructor car with dual controls.

[BACON]

Would I be correct in assuming you recently received a speeding ticket and are sore about it?

 

I do agree with the point though. I think 80mph would be perfectly safe, with a fine above 90-95. At the end of the day if somone can't drive for @*!# they are gonna cause an accident at any speed they drive at.

 

Not me..................I don't want to jinx it but I have been points free now for 3 years after my SP-30 was removed from my licence that I obtained in late 2004!!!

[Husky]

so who here got lessons on the motorway before they were given a licence to drive on them...?

And we wonder why the driving standards are so pathetic in the UK, the methods of teaching and testing are just shoddy.

 

Its nice to know that the first time a UK driver experiences loss of traction is while they head towards a tree in the rain or ice.

 

The current testing system relies on luck not to leave people killed. People wonder why new drivers always crash? because they dont have the proper training, simple.

 

EDIT: they are re-evaluating the speed limits daily and they are lowering them, rather than looking to the root cause of the danger.

[mattbowey]

that is true, skid pan should be included in testing, did ya'll see the top gear about getting a licence in finland, i know their roads are a lot different to ours but surely something could be learned from them. i for one would redo my lessons and test if t would make me a better driver.

 

instead though we have to pay a fortune for advanced driving courses and only if we want to. seems silly

[rich5259]

IIRC the 70 mph and 60 mph "National Speed limits" were introduced as a fuel saving measure during the oil crisis, before that de-restricted roads were just that - not limited.

 

The 60mph roads around here are rapidly becoming 50 mph too - didn't anyone realise that adds 20% to journey times if you are lucky and 30% if the duffers who won't go near the limit are only doing 40

 

I remember Eric Broadly at Lola saying that in the 60's they road tested the T70's on the M1 but had to keep below 100 if there was other traffic because morris minors were only doing 40

[maxi-glasgow]

I think Husky has hit the nail on the head, there needs to be more training for young drivers and ALL drivers on what to do when you lose control.

 

What do they do in countries like Germany etc where they have roads with no speed limits. What are the accidents levels in Germany compared to here?

[BACON]

so who here got lessons on the motorway before they were given a licence to drive on them...?

And we wonder why the driving standards are so pathetic in the UK, the methods of teaching and testing are just shoddy.

 

The current testing system relies on luck not to leave people killed. People wonder why new drivers always crash? because they dont have the proper training, simple.

 

I was encouraged by my parents after passing my test at 17..............at the first attempt I must add ...........to continue with my driver training and I firstly completed "PASS PLUS" and then a further advanced driver training course with the Police.

 

To be perfectly honest I think this kind of advanced training should be compulsory and if this isn't completed within 2 years for example then you lose your license and must start over again with the theory test and practical examinations etc.

[Husky]

so who here got lessons on the motorway before they were given a licence to drive on them...?

And we wonder why the driving standards are so pathetic in the UK, the methods of teaching and testing are just shoddy.

 

The current testing system relies on luck not to leave people killed. People wonder why new drivers always crash? because they dont have the proper training, simple.

 

I was encouraged by my parents after passing my test at 17..............at the first attempt I must add ...........to continue with my driver training and I firstly completed "PASS PLUS" and then a further advanced driver training course with the Police.

 

To be perfectly honest I think this kind of advanced training should be compulsory and if this isn't completed within 2 years for example then you lose your license and must start over again with the theory test and practical examinations etc.

seems a good plan to me

[gazhull8474]

The UK driving standards are a joke. The amount of people that overtake then stay in the fast lane of the motor way even though the next vehicle they are going to overtake is miles away, in my eyes bad practice. The point about no one being given any sort of formal training on the motorways is the biggest one, people should be assessed to see if they have the ability to drive on the motorways not pass there tests and left to work it out for themselves.

 

Im currently living in Germany at the minute and with there being no limits on the autobahns its a god send. Not only does no one race around towns or on autobahns as they know what there own vehicle is capable off and dont need to show off to their mates.

 

As for accidents there does seem to be less on the autobahns as they take formal training and do so in more powerful cars rather than the Fiat 500 that some companys in the UK use. That said when there is a crash in Germany its normally a fatality however this does not close the roads for hours they move everything to the hard shoulder put up screens to reduce rubber necking and thn everyone else drives on.

[CaptainSensible]

+1 to all the comments about improving driving standards. The driving test is way to easy, evident by all the drivers on the road who don't seem to know how to drive! Harder driving tests also means less cars on the road, surely a good thing. Driving is a priviledge, not a right, and you have to earn it!

[AK350Z]

Something we all agree with then!

I don't think the limits should be changed, although we all know roads with seemingly arbitary limits (apart from NW Scotland! ), the police seem to be in on the unspoken agreement that 80ish mph on the motorway is ok, driver training needs to improve and the idea that the driving test doesn't include motorway is laughable!

[rtbiscuit]

lane discipline is shocking in the UK as is driving standards. they have made the test harder than when i sat it, but only really focussing on round town driving. i passed 2nd time, but i here of some people taking 7 or 8 attempts i think there should be limits to the amount of times you can take it.

 

Biscuits road laws:

 

- skid pan training should be compulsory as should night driving and motor way driving.

- learner drivers should complete a minimum of 50 hours training before sitting the test and should be over a minimum time of 12 months (experience counts for a lot and passing in a short time i don't think leads to a good driver)

- 5 attempts maximum for your driving test (if you can;t pass it in that many times you were never destined to drive and should be resigned to getting the bus)

- once passed not only are you on a 2 year probation but your limited to up to a 1.1 litre car.

- after 2 years your allowed to progress to up to a 1.4 litre car

- after 2 years of 1.4's your allowed up to 2 litre and after that you can drive what you like (they do it with motorbikes why not cars) ( that takes most 17's up to there 24th birthday and by then they should have progressed nicely with cars and have enough experience not to kill themselves) (highest % of crashes are in the under 24's and usually to do with in experience) (sorry to all those under 24's this is general consensus and doesn't account for the few under 24's who can drive. maybe we could add a special dispensation clause that if you complete a certain amount of extra courses you can progress earlier.)

- people should be re tested every 10 years (maybe not as major as the initial, but to recap and remind of driving laws, and any changes that might have happened over that 10 years)

 

Thats all i can think of for now; feel free to add to it

[ATTAK Z]

Kids should learn to drive when they get to secondary school .... NOT on the roads obviously ...... it should be part of the school curriculum