kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Hi all, following my recent posts regarding steering weight, vagueness and a slight clonk when turning the wheel stationary, i have also noticed that my Z drifts over to the left on most road surfaces if i release the steering wheel for more than about 3 seconds. Now i am aware that cars with low profile tyres and large wheels are far more prone to "tramlining", and all the cars i have owned seem to have done it to some extent, but i was wondering (with all the other issues i am having) if this is normal or not? Tyres are all the same brand, excellent condition and correct pressures. I have had a recent alignment (2 in fact, making me question whether my car is capable of holding alignment atm). So what do you all find? You input here would really help. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacW Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Mine actually drifts slightly to the right but then I need 2 new tyres and it's been eight months since I had the alignment checked, will be sorting both next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Mines drifts to the left, allignment is probs out after hitting a cattle grid at high speed. I need two tyres aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunmetalzgt Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 You need to check you tyre pressures and alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 You need to check you tyre pressures and alignment. Please take the time to read the initial post before replying. To paraphrase - tyre pressures are correct all round and i have had 2 alignments in the past 4 months. I am not paying for any more alignments because i am starting to wonder if a worn component is causing the alignment settings to drift. The fact that neither alignment place picked up any issues makes me wonder if that is not the case however. And yes, they were 4 wheels alignment centres (hunter systems). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Shirron Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 As far as im aware every car will pull slightly to the left on most road surfaces due to the curve in the road (Presuming so the rain can run into the drains) Obviously theres a line between drifting to the lefts and pulling to the left... I worked at a BMW dealer for many years and brand new cars would do this. Try driving on the right hand side of the road and see if it pulls to the right? (Check for oncoming traffic first ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 As far as im aware every car will pull slightly to the left on most road surfaces due to the curve in the road (Presuming so the rain can run into the drains) Obviously theres a line between drifting to the lefts and pulling to the left... I worked at a BMW dealer for many years and brand new cars would do this. Try driving on the right hand side of the road and see if it pulls to the right? (Check for oncoming traffic first ) Thanks for the reply. I have tried that, the problem does not seem as bad but seems to go stright ahead in those circumstances (rather than drift right). Thing is, my GF's little ford Ka does not drift at all on any road surfaces. Possibly just a benefit of high sidewall and little wheels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Sounds to me like its pulling to the left rather than drifting to the left. As you suggest above, even when the road cambers off to the right, the car goes straight ahead and not towards the right hand side of the road, which suggests it is fighting the camber. If you have had allignment done on a hunter system, it would point to something being either worn or the allignment wasnt done right. Did they do a full geometry check or just the basics? As I found on my car that it pulled slightly to the left (not as bad as yours), and it was the rear wheels that werent straight, they both pointed off to the left. If your allignment guys thought the rear was straight and true (as can quite often happen), and they alligned the fronts off that, then the tracking will be straight, but the car wont be, if that makes sense? They base the "trueness" or straightness off the rear wheels and assume they are dead straight, if they are not, it can cause your problems I think. If all was done right in the allignement, then some suspension or steering parts may be worn. In that case, its best to wait for someone like ZMANALEX or Abbey to comment, as they will know more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 Thanks for such a detailed reply. It was a full geometry alignment, and the thrust angle was reset accordingly. The garage i took it to have a good reputation (although they were suprised when i told them of the problems i had at the first garage as they too have a good reputation). All of it seems to suggest an underlying problem that they have not been able to pick up on.... The Z is in at my local for an oil change on Friday so i will ask them to thoroughly investigate front suspension. I take your point about the rears being the basis for the setting of the front, but the "clunk" i get when dry steering suggests there is at least some small problem there... i just cant unsertand why it was not picked up by either alignment centre if it was a tie rod or collapsed bush... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasha@lazytrips Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 My car drifts to the left. It also drifts to the right. In fact, it can also do wheelies and doughnuts if I really go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Out of my depth when it comes to specific suspension/steering components I'm afraid, but it does seem to logically point that way. ZMANALEX would be a good person to PM. You seem to have gone through things logically, so I'm sure he can quickly help you through diagnosing the problem with your garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 my Z drifts over to the left on most road surfaces if i release the steering wheel for more than about 3 seconds. This reminds me of the Tommy Cooper joke. Man goes to doctor and says "every time I lift my arm above my head it hurts", doctor says "don't do it". Stop taking your hands off the wheel for 3 seconds then!!!! Drive the car fast and skillfully and you'll need both hands on the wheel all the time and you'll forget this very VERY minor issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 my Z drifts over to the left on most road surfaces if i release the steering wheel for more than about 3 seconds. This reminds me of the Tommy Cooper joke. Man goes to doctor and says "every time I lift my arm above my head it hurts", doctor says "don't do it". Stop taking your hands off the wheel for 3 seconds then!!!! Drive the car fast and skillfully and you'll need both hands on the wheel all the time and you'll forget this very VERY minor issue. Hmm, think your missing the point im making! Im not enjoying driving my car at all at the moment, not because i cant take me hands of the wheel for 3 seconds but for other reasons (steering feel is average, does not turn in particularly well, vague on bumpy roads, steering wheel does not weight up during initial turn in at slow speeds, knock coming from front when turning wheel left and right when stationary ((again i could simply not do this, but is it not revealing a bigger problem?)) ) At the moment i am really struggling to get on with the Z. Only had it about 4 months and there are many things that nag at me and question whether its going to be a "keeper". The majority of them are not specific to my car, but are the shortfalls of the model. One of the biggest issues i have with mine that seems to be opposed to every review i have read is the handling aspect - namely it is supposed to be sharp and meaty feeling, whilst i am finding it a touch vauge and not as well weighted as my Cooper S was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Sure you're not mistaking torque steer for feel? An FR car can feel a bit numb at first when coming from a car that drives the front wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilscorp Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 mine drifts left a wee bit, tires are good, pressures are all the same. Only had the car 5days and thought I heard a knock when I was turning at low speeds got a wee click from the back rear but need to drive the car more to listen for these issues more, not that botherd set aside money if there is a problem and I love it too much to care about wee noises or issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 Sure you're not mistaking torque steer for feel? An FR car can feel a bit numb at first when coming from a car that drives the front wheels. No, this is my fifth rwd car (3rd in 4years). And no, its not the most powerfull either. mine drifts left a wee bit, tires are good, pressures are all the same. Only had the car 5days and thought I heard a knock when I was turning at low speeds got a wee click from the back rear but need to drive the car more to listen for these issues more, not that botherd set aside money if there is a problem and I love it too much to care about wee noises or issues! Cheers for the reply. As i say, the drift in itself is of little concern to me (you are supposed to drive a car after all not vice verca), i just wondering if it is highlighting a bigger issue that is peeing me off! Seems like opinion is divided on this one, most cars do seem to follow road camber / crown to some extent, and the issue is exacerbated when "modern sports car" norms (low profile tyres, wide tyres, large diameter wheels) are added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 As soon as my car left the allignment place when I had it done, it instantly felt better, noticably more precise and just felt more planted and direct. I know a lot of others had the same feeling when they had theirs done, so dont be put off by any vague feeling, I do beleive there will be something at the cause of it, and its not just how the car is. My car tramlines quite a bit, but does not drift, although it will follow the camber of the road slightly if allowed. Keep working at it, if you go methodically, you'll work out what it is and be happy when its solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 As soon as my car left the allignment place when I had it done, it instantly felt better, noticably more precise and just felt more planted and direct. I know a lot of others had the same feeling when they had theirs done, so dont be put off by any vague feeling, I do beleive there will be something at the cause of it, and its not just how the car is. My car tramlines quite a bit, but does not drift, although it will follow the camber of the road slightly if allowed. Keep working at it, if you go methodically, you'll work out what it is and be happy when its solved Thanks mate, thats reassuring to hear. My last 3 alignments on this cat have gone thus - 1. No different to how it felt before but steering wheel off to left. 2. (same garage) wheel still off too left, horrifically light steering 3 (diffeent garage) steering wheel almost centre, steering feel back to how it was after alignment 1. I have got to the point where taking my cars for alignment is synonymous for making the car worse! Each garage has found the alignment figures very different to the last (all in the space of 2 weeks), so i am lead to believe they are failing to pick up on a worn component that is preventing the geometry to hold over any distance. Hopefully Friday will produce some helpfull findings, i am quite impressed with my local indie - this will be their big test! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz0 Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 I too have noticed a slight wander to the left when I let go of the wheel. It's most noticeable however if I stop ontop of rough ground, sometimes the wheel actualy jerks to the left, its never jerked to the right though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff-r Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Might sound a bit far out but does your car have a clear history with regards to accident damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 Might sound a bit far out but does your car have a clear history with regards to accident damage? Well its HPI clear... Does no one else think that the knock from the steering assembly when turning the wheel left and right @ stationary is telling? Maybe all the problems i am having boil down to a single suspension component? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 my zed makes a little noise but that is normal i think. especially when stationary, as there is parts in the steering designed for absorbing some of the shock from potholes etc on the steering column mechanism... my mini cooper s done it really bad and the full steering column had to be replaced go get it checked by a dealer as i dont think anyone really has an answer on here without physically feeling it or hearing it, post a video if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon Coops Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Most cars will pull to the left, rumour was this was done incase yo were to fall asleep/pass out at the wheel the car would drift left rather than into traffic coming the other way. As for the knock, hard to say without hearing/feeling it. Can you feel it through the steering, is it a dull thump/clunk or more of a twang. does it make a similar noise over bumps or on rought roads? can you get someone to work the steering while you listen to each wheel station to narrow it down? Has it got any worse? Whatis your tyre wear showing? is your car lowered? how many miles has it done? is it worse/better in the wet? does the wear n the steering wheel match the milage ? Anawers to these may help. Coops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazman Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 Well if I describe it maybe someone can try the same and report back. It takes about 5 seconds. Car stationary I turn the steering wheel about 90 degrees, possibly less. I then release the wheel, and as it springs backto centre there is a fairly quiet but deffinatly audible knock sound. It does it a lot more from releasing wheel when left hand down than when right hand down. Also, simply shaking the steering wheel left to right left to right etc when stationary produces a knock sound. If this is something that they all do then I will rule it out, but I assume it is not normal? Again, confirmation of this would be priceless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon Coops Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 Not sure if the noise is normal but it springing back is as you have just put tension in the tread of the tyre due to twisting it, as for the knock, that points to track rod end or steering rack end, try getting someone to sit in the car and with the engine off 'rock' the steering left to right to produce the noise then feel the track rod end and see if you can feel the noise there. Coops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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