Evolution... a theory?

[Zedrush]

Am confused, was at a mates barbecue last night and we were sitting around table and everyone started to get onto the discussion of evolution, they asked me for my opinion and I said well to me its just a theory and im not to sure on the idea of originating from apes, I believe in creationism but everyone is entitled to their own beliefs..... the whole table went really quiet and looked at me as if i was an outcast

 

then one of my mates girlfriend who I hadnt met before piped up and said you cant possibly be that backward, evolution is not a theory you moron its a fact do some research before you embarrass yourself some more

 

Confused I responded saying I meant no disrespect with my views, but they are my views and I would never try and impose them on anyone else, why is it such a bad thing to not believe in evolution and just see it as a theory? She started getting really uptight shouting all sorts of scientific claims to back up why evolution is not a theory, to which I responded that its still a theory its not an absolute to all, just like creationism is not an absolute to all and we have to respect that.... she then said to her boyfriend (my mate) I cant deal with his (me) backward stupidity, he cant be that thick then demanded to be taken home? I looked at my mate he turned to me and said sorry jay I got to take her home??? (*cough* cough* under the thumb *cough* *wheeze* ahem)

 

I told him to be careful because she might start f&$king a chimpanzee he laughed a bit and then said talk to you tomo mate and they went.

 

I dont get it? have I missed something? Is evolution been proved 100% like the world not being flat. Surely if it hasn't then im entitled to think different? I wouldnt go around calling someone an idiot if they believe in evolution and not creationism? We are entitled to our own beliefs right?

[Simon+Kat]

I think you are entitled to any opinion you like and would defend anybodies right to be different from the rest. But.....if you do want to talk about the subject, then it is very very hard to ignore the tsunami of evidence supporting this 'theory'. Please Google it or do some poking around on the net on the respected scientific websites, arm yourself with facts, keep an open mind, then see what you think.

Don't let anyone tell you what to think, but give yourself the chance of an 'informed' opinion.

[Zugara]

You should ave chucked her a banana and told her to go swing=-O. Righteous bitch.

[narcotix]

I am a strong believer in Evolution ... I know it's not 100% proven but IMO there is too much evidence for it to not be correct ...

 

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions ... and I don't make a big deal of it if people don't have the same views as me ...

 

I watch quite a lot of discovery channel / nature programs and there is evidence of Evolution occurring in species all the time ...

 

I think over a massive time scale it's the only logical explanation to how we as a species have become what we are today ...

[pathfinder123]

It's so easy nowadays to get into discussions/arguments where one side knows absolutely nothing about the subject. When that happens - Walk away - Walk away - Walk away.....

 

 

S.

[ug45cwb]

I studied evolution at uni and simulated it on a computer, its unbelievably effective at problem solving. I guess this doesn't prove it to be 100% fact, but I am confident the evolutionary processes are capable of creating the great genius and diversity we see in nature today. When you say you believe in creationism, do you mean the genesis creation narrative? Because even a lot of Christians have admitted this should not be taken literally.

Your mates missus sounds like a nightmare tho, he should probably swerve her now before its too late.

I assume you have seen this video? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 743189197#

[Zedrush]

You should ave chucked her a banana and told her to go swing=-O. Righteous bitch.

 

PMSL Yeh I just spoke to my mate today he apologized and I said what for, youre not her babysitter, he's been dating her for 3 months and has fallen head over heels for her and we hardly see him now, hate it when mates do that

 

I understand there is a plethora of evidence that contributes to the validity of evolution, but then there are non religious but scientific evidence that also contributes to its flaws, whether one out weighs the other Im not sure but then I am not one to judge, I mean If I were to say evolution is a load of bull then Id be the biggest idiot going understandably because my belief has no empirical substance its just that.. a belief in which I have faith in.

 

Just couldnt understand why my belief offended her so much she went ape sh!t at my response second thoughts maybe I can see the heritage now

[AK350Z]

Pretty much fact mate.

Unlike beliving wether God exsists or not, evolution has a huge body of evidence now as it is directly observable in the real world. Take Viruses and Bacteria, some of the simplest forms of life. They adapt to changing conditions much faster than larger organisms because the reproduce much faster, and these adaptions, such as resistance to drugs and the ability to transfer across species, is one of the simplest forms of evolution. Obviously bigger species take a while longer.

 

The Fossil Record is also very helpful, as not only can the progress of species be tracked across millions of years, but we understand the geographical processes of fossilisation and preservation. The World is not a static place, it is constantly changing and developing.

[Vik54]

Jay - you were just playing devils advocate weren't you...please tell me you were?!

And if you weren't I mean no offence to your faith

[Zedrush]

Jay - you were just playing devils advocate weren't you...please tell me you were?!

And if you weren't I mean no offence to your faith

you nutter no offence taken. i just dont buy into it, thats just me I believe God created Adam and Eve Im afraid, but if people believe in Evolution then fair play to them I respect that But don't think you can say its pretty much fact, "pretty much" and "fact" still leaves room for an alternate possibility

 

I do believe in adaptation, but not evolution

[Wookiee22]

Dinosaurs?

[Zedrush]

Dinosaurs?

 

where?

[DoogyRev]

Dinosaurs?

 

where?

 

Spotted......

[GT4 Zed]

Jay - you were just playing devils advocate weren't you...please tell me you were?!

And if you weren't I mean no offence to your faith

you nutter no offence taken. i just dont buy into it, thats just me I believe God created Adam and Eve Im afraid, but if people believe in Evolution then fair play to them I respect that But don't think you can say its pretty much fact, "pretty much" and "fact" still leaves room for an alternate possibility

 

I do believe in adaptation, but not evolution

 

 

Jay, i think you are right to be taken aback by your mates GF behaviour. You are entitled to your own opinions and beliefs and nothing is factual. But there is a "strong" case for one than the other depending on your perspectives.

In such situations you either walk away since the other person is unwilling to respect your views but if it was a stimulating exercise in intelectual balls swinging with a resonable debater you would find that there are more evidence for evolution than creationism but also in fact that they both have a place to explain life as we know it

 

You cannot ignore the evidence or claim ignorance of the subject as you will leave yourself open to attack from maniacs like that GF eg when you saythings like you believe in adaptation only.................. because evolution is adaptation and vice versa

[Wookiee22]

Dinosaurs?

 

where?

 

 

Always a bit of a hot-bed subject, imagine it has called a halt to many a dinner party in the past as a lot of it centres around deeply held beliefs, whether religious or otherwise. I'm absolutely up for people believing whatever they like, I know on which side of the fence I firmly sit. I have to say I find it amusing when you hear stories of foreword stickers being added to textbooks in US schools as well. I quite enjoy some of the debate (when it has at least a toe dipped in the pool of logical reason anyway) about the complexities of design and the lack of evidence of transitional species (google 'croco-duck' for a bit of a laugh). The bottom line is though, no matter how much 'proof' you lay down there are still going to be significant numbers of people who will refuse to be swayed one way or the other.

[Maccaman]

Jay have you read Howard Browns' (former World Kickboxing Champion) book "All too human". If not I think it will give you a very big insight to "Creationism". No offence to your beliefs, but I think it gives very well researched debate to a lot of religious dogma. Got to agree with everybody else though about your mates girlfriend being a bit of a nightmare. Just because somebody disagrees doesn't give them the right to start saying you are "thick".

[Zedrush]

Jay - you were just playing devils advocate weren't you...please tell me you were?!

And if you weren't I mean no offence to your faith

you nutter no offence taken. i just dont buy into it, thats just me I believe God created Adam and Eve Im afraid, but if people believe in Evolution then fair play to them I respect that But don't think you can say its pretty much fact, "pretty much" and "fact" still leaves room for an alternate possibility

 

I do believe in adaptation, but not evolution

 

 

Jay, i think you are right to be taken aback by your mates GF behaviour. You are entitled to your own opinions and beliefs and nothing is factual. But there is a "strong" case for one than the other depending on your perspectives.

In such situations you either walk away since the other person is unwilling to respect your views but if it was a stimulating exercise in intelectual balls swinging with a resonable debater you would find that there are more evidence for evolution than creationism but also in fact that they both have a place to explain life as we know it

 

You cannot ignore the evidence or claim ignorance of the subject as you will leave yourself open to attack from maniacs like that GF eg when you saythings like you believe in adaptation only.................. because evolution is adaptation and vice versa

 

I understand mate lol and nice points raised, its just that I cant bring myself to accept there is not also other possibilities out there, even if there is a "strong" case for evolution from what scientists have seen. But the same was said on the atom being the smallest molecule ever, and scientists made people believe that because of substantial evidence and the same was said on the world being flat. I just merely raised an issue that evolution is one possible theory but for me if I had to bet i'd place my chips into creationism...

 

Now I know that people will say have you researched both to conclude your decision to validate why you believe and I'd have to say yes. I have a 2.1 honours degree in theology, I studied it because I was an atheist and I wanted to back up my arguments. I came out as a Christian. But that does not mean I turn my back on all my atheist friends. I cant stand being in a crowd of people rolling around on the floor praising Jesus and condemning those who don't believe thats absolute bull. So why should I stand people who think Im absurd for not believing in evolution. Its funny how they say, the biggest cause of atheism isn't because of the belief itself of Christianity but more of the bible bashing people who represent Christianity. Seems like this girl who thought I was absurd was no different than the Bible bashing Christians Atheists in general shun.

 

Im sure there are many plausible evidence for evolutionism, and many arguments against my own belief is have you ever seen your God. Answer no but I believe from personal experience and Im sorry scientist can't measure that or put it in a test tube. But if I say have you ever seen an ape turn into a man, then you would say it happens over millions and millions of years, but the fact that no one has ever visually seen it I'd say both our views have validity whether its accepted by all or not

[player2301]

Answer to evolution =

What came first chicken or an egg !!

 

People make evidence to support what they believe !! It happens in everything ..

To me evolution is crap to a certain extent = example if man came from apes and it happend over 10000 years or so

then why are there still apes !!!!

did some just think forget this i cant be bothered ?

 

Everything is crap its just made up so we all dont go crazy .. So we can believe we have some answers

 

Who knows what happened ? ? We just gotta except we will never find out !

[Roo]

I did a 3rd year essay on this and there are some serious pitfalls to evolution and indeed science as a whole. Evolutionary theory is a logical explanation based on observation. But all theory has a week spot...

 

Biological example. - Bombadier Beetle. A beetle that has developed 2 small chambers to hold 2 liquids which when mixed in a 3rd chamber explode. This explosion propels the caustic liquids out at the attacking predator.... how did that happen? The two liquids on their own offer no advantage, mix them together without the proper chambers and your beetle will spontaneously explode.

That would mean an evolutionary "leap" developing the structures and chemistry in one go to obtain any advantage.

 

Science as a whole. - for us to be able to explain the world we need to be able to establish a set of rule. Science seeks to define those rules and explain them. However complexity, chaos, infinite probability etc. Hooked up with uncertenty and issues at a quantum level mean that any Rule can and probably does have an exception. If so there are no rules. And by observing you change the result so are not actually observing impartially.

For science to have any meaning requires there to be a rule, a pattern and therfore something outside that is a universal rule that can not be broken. a God rule if you will. All science is based on the assumption at its root of the possibilty of a unifying rule. All science therefore needs God.

 

The philopause. The point at which the you seek the philosophy behind the knowledge not just the knowledge.

 

It's a self contradicting loop basically

 

By the way I did biological sciences and did modules in evolutionary theory, developtmental physiology, phiolosophy of science and such.

[geoff-r]

Wow she sounds like a nightmare. She must be phenomenal in bed because I wouldn't put up with a woman like that. Where's Gordon Brown when you need him "back down BIGOT!"

[Husky]

tbh i think she needed taken home as she prob had a bit too much to drink. you have the right to believe in what you want mate, personally i am purely scientific about everything. but really you have to note the word personally, its my view and i dont impress that on anyone. I will however ask questions of other beliefs trying to get them to explain where they are coming from and how their beliefs work to broaden my horizons.

 

hot subject though

[Husky]

I did a 3rd year essay on this and there are some serious pitfalls to evolution and indeed science as a whole. Evolutionary theory is a logical explanation based on observation. But all theory has a week spot...

 

Biological example. - Bombadier Beetle. A beetle that has developed 2 small chambers to hold 2 liquids which when mixed in a 3rd chamber explode. This explosion propels the caustic liquids out at the attacking predator.... how did that happen? The two liquids on their own offer no advantage, mix them together without the proper chambers and your beetle will spontaneously explode.

That would mean an evolutionary "leap" developing the structures and chemistry in one go to obtain any advantage.

 

Science as a whole. - for us to be able to explain the world we need to be able to establish a set of rule. Science seeks to define those rules and explain them. However complexity, chaos, infinite probability etc. Hooked up with uncertenty and issues at a quantum level mean that any Rule can and probably does have an exception. If so there are no rules. And by observing you change the result so are not actually observing impartially.

For science to have any meaning requires there to be a rule, a pattern and therfore something outside that is a universal rule that can not be broken. a God rule if you will. All science is based on the assumption at its root of the possibilty of a unifying rule. All science therefore needs God.

 

The philopause. The point at which the you seek the philosophy behind the knowledge not just the knowledge.

 

It's a self contradicting loop basically

 

By the way I did biological sciences and did modules in evolutionary theory, developtmental physiology, phiolosophy of science and such.

 

 

intriguing

[AK350Z]

 

Jay, i think you are right to be taken aback by your mates GF behaviour. You are entitled to your own opinions and beliefs and nothing is factual. But there is a "strong" case for one than the other depending on your perspectives.

In such situations you either walk away since the other person is unwilling to respect your views but if it was a stimulating exercise in intelectual balls swinging with a resonable debater you would find that there are more evidence for evolution than creationism but also in fact that they both have a place to explain life as we know it

 

You cannot ignore the evidence or claim ignorance of the subject as you will leave yourself open to attack from maniacs like that GF eg when you saythings like you believe in adaptation only.................. because evolution is adaptation and vice versa

 

Right, lets sort this one out.

 

Nothing is fact? Bulls**t. Grass is green, night follows day (follows night etc) Facts. Stone cold Facts.

 

Too many people here are confusing the scientific debate for the theological one.

 

To say there is a "strong case" is slighly misleading. I would say Evolution is Fact. The whole of science is based on empirical evidence and the idea of falsifiable hypothesis - A theory or idea that can be tested and proved either true or false.

 

Science is not subject to "opinion" and "belief".

 

 

I understand mate lol and nice points raised, its just that I cant bring myself to accept there is not also other possibilities out there, even if there is a "strong" case for evolution from what scientists have seen. But the same was said on the atom being the smallest molecule ever, and scientists made people believe that because of substantial evidence and the same was said on the world being flat. I just merely raised an issue that evolution is one possible theory but for me if I had to bet i'd place my chips into creationism...

 

No-one ever really belived the earth was flat, it's a bit of an urban myth. Thousands of years ago people knew that you could sail/walk past and below the horizon and come back again. It wasn't a great leap beyond that to realise that a constantly curving surface eventually creates a circle!

 

As for the atom, theory has always outpaced the observable. By the time the exsistance of the atom was inferred experimentally, other scientists had already be working on sub-atomic theory for some time. If at some point a scientist ever said it was the end of the road, others were certainly saying "Well it can't be because it doesn't explain such-and-such" Again, empirical evidence and experimental result continue to lead the way in answering questions and providing doors to new hypothesis.

 

Creationism does not provide any falsifible hypothesis about the rise of animals and plants on the earth. I wouldn't bet money on anything without knowing the odds first!

 

Im sure there are many plausible evidence for evolutionism, and many arguments against my own belief is have you ever seen your God. Answer no but I believe from personal experience and Im sorry scientist can't measure that or put it in a test tube. But if I say have you ever seen an ape turn into a man, then you would say it happens over millions and millions of years, but the fact that no one has ever visually seen it I'd say both our views have validity whether its accepted by all or not

 

Again, the scientific and theological arguments are being confused. Seeing God is not falsifiable. Opinion and subjective experience are not science.

Obviously no-one has "seen" an ape turn into a man, but that does not mean it didn't happen. And we have evidence to put forward that it did.

 

Theology has no place in scientific discussion any more than science has a place in theological discussion - as your mates GF failed to realise.

 

I'm not trying to be a hard-ass over this, but you need to realise that a seperation exsists between what people "believe" and what "Is". You may indeed say that "both our views have validity whether its accepted by all or not" But you are not having the same argument! Your views may have validity in the theological debate, but she is having a scientific one.

[Husky]

[Zedrush]

I did a 3rd year essay on this and there are some serious pitfalls to evolution and indeed science as a whole. Evolutionary theory is a logical explanation based on observation. But all theory has a week spot...

 

Biological example. - Bombadier Beetle. A beetle that has developed 2 small chambers to hold 2 liquids which when mixed in a 3rd chamber explode. This explosion propels the caustic liquids out at the attacking predator.... how did that happen? The two liquids on their own offer no advantage, mix them together without the proper chambers and your beetle will spontaneously explode.

That would mean an evolutionary "leap" developing the structures and chemistry in one go to obtain any advantage.

 

Science as a whole. - for us to be able to explain the world we need to be able to establish a set of rule. Science seeks to define those rules and explain them. However complexity, chaos, infinite probability etc. Hooked up with uncertenty and issues at a quantum level mean that any Rule can and probably does have an exception. If so there are no rules. And by observing you change the result so are not actually observing impartially.

For science to have any meaning requires there to be a rule, a pattern and therfore something outside that is a universal rule that can not be broken. a God rule if you will. All science is based on the assumption at its root of the possibilty of a unifying rule. All science therefore needs God.

 

The philopause. The point at which the you seek the philosophy behind the knowledge not just the knowledge.

 

It's a self contradicting loop basically

 

By the way I did biological sciences and did modules in evolutionary theory, developtmental physiology, phiolosophy of science and such.

 

Oh my god, I did a paper on the Bombadier Beetle too first year uni, how weird is that !!!!

 

I saw this made me laugh, just forwarded it to my mates new girlfriend on facebook, think she will appreciate it ha ha ha, Im sorry Im juvenile